97_Built

Hey everyone,
I've recently finished my JDM H23 VTEC Blue Top engine swap into my '97 Prelude Base 5-speed. The engine is completely stock, including injectors. I have my dyno sheet listed below, following the bolt-on modifications at the time of the dyno tune.
The setup produced 202 whp, 170 wtq with VTEC engagement set at 4900 rpm.
What I'd really like to know is if there is anyone out there who has 100% stock dyno results, with no modifications whatsoever... stock intake, exhaust, fuel system, bone stock. I'm curious as to how my current modifications are effecting the engine's efficiency.
Also, I've heard rumors that using a Mustang Dyno for a front-wheel-drive tune can effect the results given. I know that each dyno system reads the engine's variables differently. Could the results be more accurate or "true" on a different dyno system?

Here is my list of information and dyno sheet.

Details are:
AEM CAI
AEM fuel rail with AEM fuel pressure regulator
(Polished) Skunk2 Pro Intake Manifold
Hondata Intake Manifold Gasket
Bone Stock P13 H23VTEC Blue Top
RMF Replica 4-1 stainless steel exhaust manifold
Custom 2.5 mandrel bent exhaust, no cat, two dynaflow resonators
Apexi WS2 N/A muffler
Walbro 255 lph fuel pump
Hondata S300 chipped P72 ecu

97_Built

Its difficult to find informative dyno sheets for this engine. Is there anyone at all who can provide a dyno sheet, or personal experience?

q16racer

Someone elses dyno graph wont represent yours.

97_Built

I'm aware that many variables come into play, however, with enough information it could be determined what an estimated average might be.

q16racer

not really. but good luck.

HdeucedeuceA

Agreed.

1. You can't compare different dyno's, they all read differently. Mustang dyno's generally read low. My modded(untuned) AP1 only put down 189 on one, the AP1 after me only made 174. On most other dyno's it would have been around 200-210.
2. Mods play a role in this. Some are for mid-range, some for top-end ect. Different combo's yield different power-bands.

boosted_D

iTrader: (1)

Forget about other dyno's.
No doubt your mods made more power than a stock motor would have, mainly the tune with hondata vs. a stock ecu.
If you were a guessing man, you could probably guess that with your mods/tune, your probably putting down about 20+ whp over a stock motor/ecu.
And yes mustang dynos generally tend to read lower than dyno jets, 202 whp on a mustang probably equals about 220 whp on a dyno jet, very good numbers for bolt on N/A, as much or more than most turbo D motors running a stock motor on lower boost.

97_Built

Thanks for the knowledge. I've worked on Hondas quite a bit, but when it comes to tuning, I dont have a clue.
The problem I've been having is there isn't a whole lot of solid information for the blue top H23. Hmotors online claims the engine produces 215 hp stock, while some other resources say the engine sits at 197. You can say that I'm jus trying to stir up some more information, from people who have the engine, or can provide solid facts.
Thanks for clearing up the Mustang Dyno vs Dynojet question. The Prelude deffinitely feels like it has more than 30 whp over the USDM H22. I'm glad there is an explanation for this.

boosted_D

iTrader: (1)

I dont know much about the blue top, but I did know a guy about 6-7 years ago that had a crx with an H23 non vtec bottom end, with an H22 head. It was just bolt ons and tuned, if I remember right it put down something like 210 whp on a dyno jet. All I know is that motor in a crx was a FU*$ing BEAST. It pulled as hard as some turbo B civics and integra's that I had ridden in.....Mad torque was FTW.

97_Built

I know what you're saying. The prelude is wearing 225/45R-17 Falken Azenis tires, and on hot, dry pavement, with the tires warmed up, I'm still having a hard time holding traction throughout all of 1st & 2nd gear, even with the Quaife LSD installed. It puts down more torque than I've ever seen in a stockish four banger, and I'm a huge fan of this engine swap now. I'm glad I spent my money on the BT H23VTEC, instead of just throwing the H22A4 in. And I spent less than half of what a Euro H22 or JDM H22 Type S motor costs. And of course, this engine is more unique, at least in my area.

andoxviii

iTrader: (1)

I also have this swap in my 2001 Prelude. The torque is incredible. Feels beefier than my H22Z1.

I am contemplating buying a chipped OBD1 ECU to tune on Crome. I'm just not sure its worth it when I have a stock engine. I only have boltons at the moment: AEM V2 intake, MaximWorks header, and Mugen twinloop.

I will post my dyno sheet here if I end up doing it

97_Built

Andoxviii, sry I haven't been on here recently. School has been requiring much of my free time. I've read a few of the H23 Blue Top threads, and from what I've gathered so far, members have reported that the PDE head appears to have been mildly polished by the factory. The casting inside the intake and exhaust are more smoothed out and less prominent than those on the P13 head. However, I have yet to find any dyno results proving that this difference can improve performance between the two heads. If tbere are any differences at all in performance, I believe it would be minimal due to the remaining specs of the two heads being identical. So to answer your pm question about the PDE head, I wouldn't think that swapping your P13 for a PDE would prove any results worth spending the money or time.
And about whether to use the stock OBD2 ECU for tuning vs converting to OBD1, I would highly recommend that you convert over to OBD1. From what I can remember, OBD2 tuning hardware and software is scarce and expensive. The options for tuning with OBD1 are endless and affordable.

andoxviii

iTrader: (1)

So I went ahead and bought an OBD2A-to-OBD1 conversion harness and a chipped P06 (with IAB and VTEC added) before I read this... right now, the program loaded on the chip is for an H22A, but scaled up a bit to make up for the extra 0.1 L of displacement. I wouldn't even consider tuning OBD2, by the way. Far too expensive. The only issue I'm having with this setup is that I set the CEL shift light to 7200 rpm and the rev limit to 7500 rpm, but my OEM tachometer shows 7800 rpm when the shift light turns on and 8000 rpm when the fuel cuts. So I guess the only explanation is that my tach is horribly inaccurate??

I will be heading to Splitfire Performance to tune on the weekend of May 5th. Hopefully my numbers are almost as good as yours. I have I/H/E, but I'm running the stock H22Z1 intake manifold and fuel system. I will post my numbers here when I have them.

I'm also thinking I want to see the dyno results running the stock OBD2A P5M ECU. I will see if he can do a quick dyno pull beforehand.

dellas

Not completely stock but internally OEM:

Stock H23 VTEC Block 10.6:1 CR
Euro-R Head/Intake Manifold
Ebay Cam Gears
Ebay Short Ram Intake
3 inch crush bent into 2.5 inch exhaust
JDM Jasma approved Header(not sure what brand)

Tuned with Crome Gold

Red Line = Street tune base run
Blue Line = Dyno Tune final

97_Built

Nice numbers sir!
I really need to find a local dynojet and just make on pull. I need to figure out just how much difference there is between Mustang Dynos and Dynojets.

q16racer

Why does it matter?

97_Built

Judging from what everyone else says, Mustang Dynos tend to read lower numbers when you compare the same car and setup run on a DynoJet.

Does it not seem odd that your base tune horsepower numbers are higher than my fully tuned numbers, with a performance exhaust/header, Skunk2 intake manifold (polished), and cold air intake?

q16racer

Its just a freaking number!!. Look at your graph. Other than your dip to 6000, the graph looks good.

97_Built

Thanks. Maybe I'm paying too much attention to the final numbers, and not the important factors of the tune.
I still would like to get a pull done on a DynoJet just to compare.

Jimmynitro

Hey just picked up my h23a last Saturday going h2b with dual stage nitrous, I'm not a noob or to lazy to search. I spend few hours each day researching various Honda related things, anyway that being said mayb I can get a quick answer. I'm finding conflicting info on the h23a. Just trying to see what the cam specs are, mine is a p13 head

accorse07

When you say Cam Specs...you want to know stock Lift and Duration?

1991_crxsi

iTrader: (1)

I'll be putting one in my CRX with 4.7 fd LSD ITR trans, QSD H2B kit, custom a/c, and custom hood. Look for the build thread in mid December.

Jimmynitro

Yup.

accorse07

296°/300° 232°/228° .456"/.420" 11.58/10.67

DOMO_EK6

which o2 sensor are you using and how many?