COP Trigger Setup
 

I’m doing a bit of research before I pull the trigger on purchasing parts to complete a COP setup on my car. Most of my interest lies in what folks are using for triggers on their setups. I could just purchase a wiring harness from AE Performance Fab to utilize with my Link ECU as the capability to go COP is already there, however I would like to think about longevity. Being I’m already using a OEM Replacement distributor that I don’t really trust, I figured I would see what’s out there. Id like to believe that regardless of the setup that is used, a tacho booster will have to be utilized to get a tach reading, other than that, what are your thoughts, what setup are you using, how do you like it? Thanks a million!

• T1 B-Series Cam Trigger Kit
  • T1 Cam Trigger Kit B Series - T1 Race Development
• Honed Developments D & B Series Trigger Kit
  • D & B Series Trigger Kit Basic - Honed Developments
• OEM/OEM Replacement Distributor Electronics
• Digi Dizzy
  • https://www.instagram.com/digidizzy/
• AEM Engine Position Module (may be discontinued)
• AE Performance Fab Wiring Harness
  • Honda B/D/H coil on plug conversion – ae-race

Re: COP Trigger Setup
 

Hey man. I currently am in the process of setting up my basemap on my link g4x plug. Previously i had hondara s300. With their CPR kit. Swtich over and the alittle bit of wiring was a breeze. Atleast on my chassis, i do not believe i would need a tach booster. As my tach signal is coming from ecu at pin a21. From the bit of research ive done, the trigger input would be changed from reluctor to hall effect or whatnot, resync the timing, wiring everything to the exist distributor trigger wires. Also to make sure the sensor gap is correct.

Ive seriously been consider the delacruz motorsports trigger kit. Was initially considering the kit with just the cam, sensor, and bracket. However, i talked to my tuner yesterday, and he suggest, getting a trigger kit that will read the cam and the crank. Which they offer aswell. Believe i read their trigger kits were tested to 12,500RPMs. There was also the 5-0 ignite kit. But that coming from austrailia. And i think requires an obd2 oil pump

It looks lile the max rpm on the honed trigger kit is 10,000RPMs. So that would be a problem for me. Also that it need oem honda sensor to operate. The digi dizzy kit looks pretty straight forward. However theres no tested rpm. And what about for people with aftermarket wire harnesses like myself, where the coils have their own harness. Not running thru the oem distributor connector

To my knowledge my distributor is not failing. However im tryin to eliminate any future chance. Tuner also says the oem triggers should be able to be adjusted if it goes out of spec. Il post some links up below.

https://delacruzmotorsports.com/dela...r-kits-/honda/

Cam to crank splitters

https://delacruzmotorsports.com/dela...oducts/wiring/

5-0 ignite
https://www.50ignite.com/trigger-kit/?rf=va&va=36

Re: COP Trigger Setup
 

DigiDizzy is an awesome product if you're using a stock ecu (Hondata, etc) but really serves no purpose (and spends a lot of $$$) if you are using a proper ecu and just need reliable engine positioning. Chris spent a lot of years and his own blood sweat and tears developing that thing literally from thin air - I do not want to poop on his product in any way but I don't think it's applicable to your setup really.

Normally the positioning sensors in the Honda distributors are not the failure points, as they are just magnets and toothed wheels.The ICM and coil are the pinch points but you are deleting those to use COP anyway. That AE harness looks like a good way to adapt to the stock distributor if you go that way.

T1 kit is well tested and received, but I think it's kind of intrusive since it occupies the power steering bracket and kind of requires you to run without a cover on the belt. I also would prefer to have separate cam and crank wheels if possible.

The AEM has been around for quite a while, seems to be fine for the most part - I don't know if it's an ecu shortcoming or if it's with the EPM itself, but it's always seemed to me that engines with the AEM stuff on them take a long time to find sync and fire when cranking.

The 5-0 and Delacruz setups look like the Bee's knees to me but are as expensive as the DigiDizzy.

The Honed trigger setup I think is going to be the most practical solution. It uses OE triggers that are easy to find if you need one but I've honestly never seen one fail unless it gets mechanically damaged from a broken crankshaft or something ridiculous. They are used on everything all the way up to pinnacle racecars (think IMSA DPi, Indy, etc). The only shortcoming for me is cam and crank signals on the same shaft, but that's really a personal preference and not a big deal for 90% of stuff (like, if you're trying to track individual misfires or something).

Out of all the stuff listed in this thread I'd probably go with the Honed, or the 5-0 if you really want the creme. Worth pointing out that all of the good innovative car stuff comes from Australia these days.

As @ls joker mentioned, I'll be surprised if you need a tacho booster for your stock cluster. You can use the (now unused) ICM output to pulse the tach, just as the stock ecu does on OBD2B chassis. What year/chassis is this going into?

Re: COP Trigger Setup
 

i agree on the digi dizzy product.
I kinda gave up on the 5-0 ignite kit when i read that i had to run an obd2 pump.
Ive never even considered the t1 setup, simply due to due not being to retain power steering. Like you mentioned
Ive read of alot of failure on the aem epm thing or whatever its called. That was actually the first trigger product i considered untill i did my homework on it.

I am really wanting to go the delacruz route. Just not sure if i can get by with the cam only route. Or if i for sure need to do cam and crank. Gona get a more specific answer from my tuner here soon.

The honed developments kit is very very appealing. The whole max rpm thing, could just be that. But was actually tested higher. Or it could just simply be thats all those oem sensors are acurate to 10,000RPMs. This is stimming question another for my tuner. I tried to do my homework on this kit. But couldnt find much or anything on it.

Re: COP Trigger Setup
 

Pretty much anything with a crank pickup is going to require the OBD2 pump.

The good news is that any pump you are going to buy in the future is OBD2, the pumps without the mounting bosses are way superceded and stock has been gone for years now.

I don't know where that 10k limit on the Honed setup comes from either - I'm guessing max tested. There's plenty of those sensors living at 12k+in everything from K20s to proper race cars. Maybe it's a resolution thing since it's only an 8-tooth pattern.

Re: COP Trigger Setup
 

All good information to know

Re: COP Trigger Setup
 

For me I'm OBDI and run the HC92X Link ECU so I think a tacho meter would be required, or at least that's how I understand it.

Re: COP Trigger Setup
 

I'm currently doing a Platinum Racing trigger kit on my RB20DET. They make a big deal about getting crank position from the crank not the cam.

I'm not sure why there are no honda trigger kits that utilize a high resolution crank trigger mounted to the crank. Honda pulls crank position data from the cam and all these aftermarket kits also pull from the cam. Belt stretch def is a thing. In the end we want to fire ignition when the piston is in the right place not the camshaft..

Anyone know of some high res crank triggers that read at the crank for b series?

You can go with reluctor (analog waveform) or hall effect (digital waveform) based on your ecu capability. MS3pro does both.

All my Hondas are still using OEM ignition systems but not for long. This is def a topic of interest.

​​​ms3pro is old and it'll read a 60 tooth wheel...tho my rb getting 36-2. PRP's street kit is a 12 tooth crank mounted wheel.

Re: COP Trigger Setup
 

Less teeth should mean less chance to skip a tooth and lose sync. Theres def a happy medium. 8 teeth doesnt sound like a lot tho.

Re: COP Trigger Setup
 

Delacruz motorsports has and option for cam only or cam and crank trigger kits. However i have no ideal if its a high resolution style or not. Also not entirely sure if the 8 tooth trigger wheel is a good thing or not. Looks lime the honed trigger kit actually released a few days ago. Pdf file said to set it up at like 109 degrees for tdc starting angle

Re: COP Trigger Setup
 

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Re: COP Trigger Setup
 

Thats nice to see how to get an ideal on the procedure. Draws up other questions. But he still didnt really explain what the number of teeth importance. I have alot to learn in this aspect.

Re: COP Trigger Setup
 

My AEM EPM has been working fine since 2013. It's actually documented here when I installed it, and I'm pretty sure I bought it used on top of that.

You can find them used. If mine goes out for some reason, I'll just source another used one. I see them pop up in the FB groups.

The EPM got dragged by the usual Honda fan club once the T1 trigger came out. Just like all the aftermarket EMS systems were crap and only Hondata was reliable. Now all of a sudden, FuelTech and Haltech is the new wave.

Re: COP Trigger Setup
 

Re: COP Trigger Setup
 

Word! That was great. There tutorials makes life so much simplier.

Re: COP Trigger Setup
 

Number of teeth is likely going to come down to what the ecu can handle. Generally, the Nyquist rule dictates that your sample rate should be double the frequency of the signal to avoid data (teeth going by) loss or signal aliasing

Generally more teeth are better, but an old Honda ecu probably doesn’t operate at a high enough rate to deal with much more than an 8 tooth crank wheel at 9k - Whereas a more modern and/or Motorsport ecu can easily keep track of a 36 tooth wheel at crazy revs (like up to 20k)

Having a fast ecu with high crank resolution is awesome. You can pick out individual misfires in the data, right down to which cylinder it happened in. You can count and catalog individual knock hits by cylinder. You can get into staged cylinder cuts for shifts and limiters. It opens up a lot of performance windows - but you’re not going to do it on your S300 or your series 1 AEM box.

Re: COP Trigger Setup
 

Hey, do you have the setup for the EPM? I'm trying to get it to work on my B18C EG.

Re: COP Trigger Setup
 

They made that change according to my suggestions, I bought there kit when they did the soft release. It was a easy install and easy to setup. I don't plan on going over 10k rpms it's been working fine for me no issues with it.

Re: COP Trigger Setup
 

Thats kool man. Appreciate the feedback. I think i possibly seen your post on the g4x forum. Unless that was another buyer. Im ready to buy. Just gota get my shit g4x setup. Its been a nightmare with everything. Not only the BS reluctors in the factory dizzy. Can only assume i wont have half of the hassle im having setting up the triggers on the honed trigger kit. Just waiting on them to come back in stock.

Re: COP Trigger Setup
 

Probably someone else I'm running my car on a haltech, that's why the PDF says haltech settings. But that stock distributor was horrible sometimes it would kinda work but it never really played nice with the haltech. It was a night and day difference

Re: COP Trigger Setup
 

I can only imagine. Just waiting on them to get back in stock. Then i get the pleasure of starting all of again.

Re: COP Trigger Setup
 

Hey man, reading over that pdf again. Then seen the part wherd it said configured by haltech or whatever. Quick question, is your block and head shaved. And how much

Re: COP Trigger Setup
 

Not to my knowledge I bought this swap and just threw it in my car to get it running.

Re: COP Trigger Setup
 

Circling back around to this to see if anyone has any updates. Looks like all of the external harnesses you can purchases only provide from the ECU to the Coil Packs, no adaptors for the wiring at the sensors for solutions such as the Honed Developments Trigger Kit. Seems like Digi Dizzy now supports Link ECUs as well. What solutions have you all tried, or what information have you come across since this thread was initially started. I've purchased the Honed Kit, however I have not installed it as of yet, looking for the best wiring solution to complete the install. Would love for there to be an all inclusive solution that not only includes the harness for the coil packs to the ECU but also a jumper for the K Series Hall Sensors as well as a solution that ensures the tach will work as well.

Re: COP Trigger Setup
 

Looks like you purchased the linkecu hc92x. On that ecu, you would need a tach booster for that plug in board. Id also recommend the k24 cam sensors, due to ths plug orientation pointong downward. For the connectors and pins, i ordered racespeconline. Theres pinouts obviously in the help file or in the hc92x manual. You would then have make sure you have the specific cam sensor wiring. K20 and k24 have different wiring positions. I got that information from haltech i believe. Unpinned the distributors pins, pinned in the cam sensor pins into correct location.

Im pretry sure i still have my notes from when i made the harness and did all the wiring. if you need help with anything just pm me. Or start a thread