Initial Start Up - Break In Rings? Or Burp Cooling System? B18C1 - Honda-Tech


Initial Start Up - Break In Rings? Or Burp Cooling System? B18C1

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Old 02-09-2017, 09:02 AM   #1
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Default Initial Start Up - Break In Rings? Or Burp Cooling System? B18C1

I should be finishing my "refresh" of a B18C1 soon.

Details here: https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-...ident-3276594/

I sent the head out, new rings, and I will run a ball hone through the cylinders this weekend.

My question is - what do I prioritize when I start the engine for the first time?

Do I start it with the front end elevated so I can burp the cooling system? Or do I fill the cooling system as much as I can with the car on the ground and then take it out and drive it at varying RPM to allow the rings to break in to the cylinder cross-hatch?

Thank you for any wisdom y'all might have. I think it would be good to drive her, but I don't want to develop any hot spots from having air bubbles in the cooling passages.

I figured I would just install the distributor at the half-way point in terms of timing. I am not adjusting cam timing at all - very stock rebuild.

Thanks!
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Old 02-09-2017, 11:09 AM   #2
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Default Re: Initial Start Up - Break In Rings? Or Burp Cooling System? B18C1

It's my understanding the break in of the rings is done once the engine is up to operating temperature.

Burping the system is done from cold up to operating temperature.

So I think you can burp the system and move straight into seating the rings.
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Old 02-09-2017, 03:52 PM   #3
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Default Re: Initial Start Up - Break In Rings? Or Burp Cooling System? B18C1

The breaking in of the rings you have spoken about is the best way, unless you're taking it to a dyno. Just make sure when varying speeds, you're letting off the gas when going down a hill. You don't need to jack the car up for the bubbles. Just place an adapter on radiator top, which allows bubbles to escape.
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Old 02-09-2017, 06:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: Initial Start Up - Break In Rings? Or Burp Cooling System? B18C1

Motoman's method of engine break in is what I usually follow with good results Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power

On a fresh build,I usually pull the valvecover and spark plugs, then crank the engine for about 10 seconds at a time until I visually verify oil getting to the head and drizzling on the cam lobes. Usually about 3-4 cranks is sufficient. Re-install the valve cover and plugs and fire her up.

A CV boot that has been trimmed fits perfectly in the radiator fill neck and will let the bubbles work their way out after the thermostat has opened.

I'd be very careful of the flexball hone and definitely measure the bore for correct diameter and taper throughout the entire cylinder top to bottom before and after honing.
Good luck!
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Old 02-10-2017, 12:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: Initial Start Up - Break In Rings? Or Burp Cooling System? B18C1

Thank you guys for writing in on this.
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Old 02-10-2017, 12:11 PM   #6
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Default Re: Initial Start Up - Break In Rings? Or Burp Cooling System? B18C1

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I'd be very careful of the flexball hone and definitely measure the bore for correct diameter and taper throughout the entire cylinder top to bottom before and after honing.
Good luck!
Are you concerned about removing too much material from the bore with the ball hone? Thank you for the caution.

All I want to do is remove glaze, give the bore a fresh surface.

Here is cylinder after removing pistons - everything measures w/in spec:

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Old 02-10-2017, 03:13 PM   #7
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Default Re: Initial Start Up - Break In Rings? Or Burp Cooling System? B18C1

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It's my understanding the break in of the rings is done once the engine is up to operating temperature.

Burping the system is done from cold up to operating temperature.

So I think you can burp the system, set the distributor timing with a timing gun, change out the non detergent oil, and move straight into seating the rings.
make sure you have a way to monitor and adjust air fuel while its running under load or take it to a tuner. also when filling the coolant you can back-fill the block through the upper radiator hose then connect it and fill the rad. once the tstat opens it will equalize the rest of the system and add to radiator to top off. it helps to have a buddy checking for leaks too while you are in the car monitoring the gauges, making sure the fan is cycling properly and keeping the rpms up around 2000 give or take a few hundred
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Old 02-11-2017, 10:08 PM   #8
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Default Re: Initial Start Up - Break In Rings? Or Burp Cooling System? B18C1

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Are you concerned about removing too much material from the bore with the ball hone? Thank you for the caution.

All I want to do is remove glaze, give the bore a fresh surface.

Here is cylinder after removing pistons - everything measures w/in spec:

I am not 100% the finish of the ball hone is going to have the correct angle and roughness finish that is ideal for ring seating. Ive always believed that machine work should be done by machines and no matter how skilled a person is, you cannot get what a proper honing machine can do. Some people have used them successfully im sure. I have not. I suppose since you measured the bores before and after and they're all in spec, you'd have a better chance at it working well....But there's that surface finish Ra thing and crosshatch angles (stroke and rpm have to be consistent and near perfect) that I'm just not convinced a flex ball hone and a human hand is the right tool...

Id consult a couple different machine shops and pro engine builders to get their expert opinion too..
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Old 02-11-2017, 10:53 PM   #9
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Default Re: Initial Start Up - Break In Rings? Or Burp Cooling System? B18C1

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I am not 100% the finish of the ball hone is going to have the correct angle and roughness finish that is ideal for ring seating. Ive always believed that machine work should be done by machines and no matter how skilled a person is, you cannot get what a proper honing machine can do. Some people have used them successfully im sure. I have not. I suppose since you measured the bores before and after and they're all in spec, you'd have a better chance at it working well....But there's that surface finish Ra thing and crosshatch angles (stroke and rpm have to be consistent and near perfect) that I'm just not convinced a flex ball hone and a human hand is the right tool...

Id consult a couple different machine shops and pro engine builders to get their expert opinion too..
From everything I have seen and read, the ball hone is the best tool for the home DIYer. The old schoolers used to use the tri-block deglazer back in the day but it was replaced with the more expensive ball hone.

I think the important part is to get the right compound and grit on the ball hone for your application.

The ball setup helps improve your cross hatch angles and since everything is in spec and you can see the original cross hatching, I suspect 4-6 short passes with the correct ball hone will be all that's needed.

If you visit flex hone's website (brush research) they have a document to explain the various flex hones available and what applications they are best suited for.

I personally plan on using a flex ball hone but also plan on getting a drill press so that I can control my depth and height a lot more accurately.

Other than that, I've heard nothing but success with the higher costing flex hone ball hones.

Two key pieces:

Flex Hone FAQs, Ball Hone, Cylinder Hone

RPM and the grit/abrasive guide/chart

And last but not least the pdf that explains grit and material type for application types:

http://www.brushresearch.com/pdf/Fle...r_Customer.pdf
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Old 02-12-2017, 07:38 PM   #10
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Default Re: Initial Start Up - Break In Rings? Or Burp Cooling System? B18C1

I browsed through those links Tomcat. Good information. My negative experience with flex ball hones was probably human error. There's alot of factors to consider when using a flex ball hone according to the links.
Cylinder material, bore diameter, strokes per minute, rpm, and grit just to name a few....Ill just say be careful and good luck OP. Maybe someone with better results than mine can lend some advice.
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Old 02-12-2017, 08:59 PM   #11
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Default Re: Initial Start Up - Break In Rings? Or Burp Cooling System? B18C1

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Cylinder material, bore diameter, strokes per minute, rpm, and grit just to name a few....Ill just say be careful and good luck OP. Maybe someone with better results than mine can lend some advice.
This right here is why a machine doing it is probably almost always a superior job.

But for old human hand built, I think the flex hone is probably the best tool for the job.

Someone I know who did use the flex hone on a couple of different blocks did it 100% by hand (no drill press or anything), the RPM is probably the thing he followed more precisely more than anything else.

And he only did about 6 passes per cylinder. Mostly just to refresh the crosshatch to seat new rings. Had great results.
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Old 02-16-2017, 12:36 PM   #12
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Default Re: Initial Start Up - Break In Rings? Or Burp Cooling System? B18C1

It is great to read your comments in here - thank you guys.

I only did a couple of passes per cylinder. I was cautious about running the hone too much. I was also dealing with a cordless drill that had a battery that was about to die. So I would hone 1 cylinder, throw the battery on the charger, go and work on the yard for a few minutes, and then on the next cylinder.

Yes, I do wonder about the correct angle of the cross-hatch, but at least I got the correct abrasive, as per Honda guidelines.

I had to wait weeks for the 400 grit, 83mm ball hone, but it finally came in, and that is what the FSM specifies:



There is more detail in my main build thread: https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-...3276594/page8/ but in my mind, a fresh cross-hatch is better than running new rings on the old coating left behind on the cylinder. You can really notice the coating of what I think is old oil and combustion by-product when the sunlight hits in these pictures. Number 1 shows the best, You can see up high where I removed the "ridge" up top with a 3M scuff pad vs. the brown down below:





I had to keep moving last weekend, so I didn't take my usual 18 million photos. I did get one after the first piston/rod went back in. I was pleased with how the cross-hatch came out:

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Old 02-19-2017, 09:05 PM   #13
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Default Re: Initial Start Up - Break In Rings? Or Burp Cooling System? B18C1

I see the ball hones laying around and used at my friends machine shop. Guess they use 'em in place of or in conjunction with the big dog Rottler they use.
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Old 02-20-2017, 06:36 AM   #14
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Default Re: Initial Start Up - Break In Rings? Or Burp Cooling System? B18C1

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I see the ball hones laying around and used at my friends machine shop. Guess they use 'em in place of or in conjunction with the big dog Rottler they use.
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Old 02-21-2017, 05:13 PM   #15
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Default Re: Initial Start Up - Break In Rings? Or Burp Cooling System? B18C1

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It looks like there is a hairline crack in that sleeve from the pic. I hope it not cracked and it's just lighting or something.
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Old 02-23-2017, 12:06 PM   #16
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Default Re: Initial Start Up - Break In Rings? Or Burp Cooling System? B18C1

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It looks like there is a hairline crack in that sleeve from the pic. I hope it not cracked and it's just lighting or something.
This? A surface scratch from when I was checking ring gap...
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Old 02-24-2017, 02:51 PM   #17
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Default Re: Initial Start Up - Break In Rings? Or Burp Cooling System? B18C1

that hone job looks like it needs to move up and down quicker.
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Old 02-24-2017, 08:22 PM   #18
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Default Re: Initial Start Up - Break In Rings? Or Burp Cooling System? B18C1

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that hone job looks like it needs to move up and down quicker.
I was thinking that too, didn't look like the solid 60 degree angles it should have, but wasn't confident in my opinion to say.
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Old 02-25-2017, 07:28 PM   #19
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Default Re: Initial Start Up - Break In Rings? Or Burp Cooling System? B18C1

The pictures with the arrows? That is pre-hone.

I have got larger problems right now - leaking at the head gasket... :-(
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Old 02-25-2017, 07:54 PM   #20
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Default Re: Initial Start Up - Break In Rings? Or Burp Cooling System? B18C1

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I have got larger problems right now - leaking at the head gasket... :-(
I wasn't sure if this was purely an engine assembly question, so I started a new thread here:

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-...b18c1-3293564/
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Old 02-26-2017, 05:19 AM   #21
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Default Re: Initial Start Up - Break In Rings? Or Burp Cooling System? B18C1

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I wasn't sure if this was purely an engine assembly question, so I started a new thread here:

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-...b18c1-3293564/
Now I am convinced I have an engine assembly issue, so I will start a new thread in this section.
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