B16 valve springs in b18b1

 
Old 09-21-2018, 08:16 AM
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Default B16 valve springs in b18b1

Hey guys howís it going

I recently had a local tuner tell me I can run b16 valve springs in my b18b1.

Iíve done a lot of searching and I have found out that certain members have successfully installed b16 valve springs in a non vtec cylinder head so they claim.

Their is quite a few posts around here but most are very very vague..

Anyone have any first hand experience?

I know the b16 runs dual springs in the intake and single on the exhaust.

Most people say all you need is the springs/retainers and some say you need the matching keepers as well?

I know that non vtec heads run thicker valve stems and the non vtec valve springs are also taller.

I feel like this isnít possible but this guy swears heís seen it done.

If anybody has any insight I would greatly appreciate it, thanks!
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:22 PM
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Default Re: B16 valve springs in b18b1

Valve stem diameter is larger on the B18B than all VTEC "B" series valves. So, this means that you MUST use the keepers that came with the head/valves you intend to use... and this also means that the retainers must match the keepers as well. Just for clarification here: You MUST use the original B18B keepers and retainers if you intend to use a stock style spring. You CANNOT use VTEC keepers and retainers on a non-vtec valve. Now I have never personally tried to run VTEC springs in a LS head... but for the sake of discussion, if the springs have the same outer diameter and wire thickness, then the retainers and spring bases should work.

Now, before you get excited and start comparing parts to see if this will actually work... I believe that the spring diameter in the LS head is SMALLER than the VTEC heads, and thus, none of this will work. So, if I am correct... your local tuner is mistaken... at least in the way you have described it. I suppose you could have custom valves made with the smaller 5.5mm stems yet be sized for the LS head, install custom valve guides that work with the VTEC sized stems, machine the base areas in the head to accept the larger B16A spring bases, and THEN use B16A springs... although we still haven't solved the geometry issues with the exhaust rocker arms due to the reduced install height.

One more thing: EVEN if B16A springs would work... the question is WHY would you use them ??? They are shorter than the exhaust springs found in the LS head and likely wouldn't have an effectively high enough spring rate to keep from floating valves at higher rpm... and that's assuming the keepers stay in place.

You were right... this isn't possible. Your tuner friend and "most people" you have referred to haven't really thought about this logically before they told their tall-tale... and now you have insight.
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Old 09-22-2018, 02:58 PM
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Default Re: B16 valve springs in b18b1

Thank you for your response. I honestly doubted it was possible from my own personal knowledge/experience but the guy and the threads had me second guessing myself.

The reason the tuner tried telling me to run different springs was because I was getting my pretty much stock b18b1 tuned(bolt ons/milled head/cam gears)and I told him that when I launch the car Iíll usually over rev first gear to fall into more power in second. I told him I wasnít trying to spend 170 on valve springs on stock cams so he told me to try b16 valve springs.

on a side note would anyone know around what rpm the b18b1 should not be revved past due to valve float?

i rev to 7500rpm in first and second occasionally and havenít noticed any signs of valve float
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Old 09-24-2018, 04:11 AM
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Default Re: B16 valve springs in b18b1

Your tuner may be referring to Vtec inner springs with existing B18A/B outer springs. That has been done several times.
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Old 09-24-2018, 05:58 AM
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Default Re: B16 valve springs in b18b1

Originally Posted by AllMtrRex View Post
Your tuner may be referring to Vtec inner springs with existing B18A/B outer springs. That has been done several times.
Do you have any more info what I would need to do this?

do you run the non vtec or vtec retainers/keepers

would you only run the inners on the intake side or would you run the b16 intake inner springs on the exhaust aswell?

i know b16 only runs dual springs on the intake side and the only factory head that runs them on intake and exhaust is the type r b series motors
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Old 09-24-2018, 09:11 PM
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Default Re: B16 valve springs in b18b1

Originally Posted by AllMtrRex View Post
Your tuner may be referring to Vtec inner springs with existing B18A/B outer springs. That has been done several times.
I have never heard of this being done either... and again, I do not believe that this would work.
Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy96 View Post

Do you have any more info what I would need to do this?

do you run the non vtec or vtec retainers/keepers You have to run the non-vtec retainers and keepers with the LS valves.

would you only run the inners on the intake side or would you run the b16 intake inner springs on the exhaust aswell?

i know b16 only runs dual springs on the intake side and the only factory head that runs them on intake and exhaust is the type r b series motors

I had another long response to your over revving in first and second gears and the reasoning as to why you want to alter the spring rates... I get it... and I got kicked off and lost it !!! Just spend the $170 and get the proper parts for your engine so that you are protecting it in the best possible way. Reducing the redline in lower gears will help the engine survive long term as well. In short: Either change you or change the parts with a QUALITY solution.
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Old 09-25-2018, 12:05 PM
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Default Re: B16 valve springs in b18b1

Originally Posted by JRCivic1 View Post
I had another long response to your over revving in first and second gears and the reasoning as to why you want to alter the spring rates... I get it... and I got kicked off and lost it !!! Just spend the $170 and get the proper parts for your engine so that you are protecting it in the best possible way. Reducing the redline in lower gears will help the engine survive long term as well. In short: Either change you or change the parts with a QUALITY solution.
I just want to clarify a bit further to possibly ease any concerns you may have with my setup/situation. I donít want you to get the wrong impression of who I am.

first off I donít think that because and have a civic sedan with a non vtec b series swap I have a full blown race car I try to rev to 8k in every gear cause itís cool, lol thatís not me.

but I do like to have fun with my setup and I like to get the most out of it.
Currently my b18b1 with mods I listed and stock ls transmission with a 8lb flywheel/6puck clutch and a type r crank pulley makes the setup rev faster but the revs drop even faster. I think I can launch and shift decently well BUT with the long ratios/final drive and the lighter rotating assembly it just doesnít launch or fall into gear as well as it could.

I know that my power peaks around 6500rpm and the torque peaks even lower, so by revving this high itís not making me faster in the gear Iím over revving.
What I find that if I over rev the motor a bit(nothing crazy itís like 700-1000rpm more) I fall closer to my power band in the next gear which makes me a little faster.

I just finished getting all the parts for my new drive train setup which consists of: gsr transmission, used and resurfaced 13lb flywheel(more inertia Should make my launch/shifts harder)new stage 2 full face clutch so Iím not causing excessive wear on my drivetrain and it more than handles the amount of torque the engines making.

with this setup I should have the inertia and gearing to make my car faster than it ever will be over revving my current setup.
Now if I come up with a cheap valve spring solution, I will see if over revving helps this new setup at all.


And maybe I am too hopeful that I can frankstien oem parts to build a better setup but Im only thinking this way because of my experience in the past.

I got my first car witch was a 93 dx hatch and wanted something faster without yet swapping and I came across d series.org
and thanks to info previously posted and random questions I asked mista bone/tranzex and nastycanasta I built a d15beast7 Frankenstein with parts from 4 other d series motors total so thatís why Iím so keen on trying to make oem parts fit.

just thought Iíd share this so you donít get the wrong idea of who I am or donít feel like you take me seriously




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Old 09-25-2018, 07:10 PM
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Default Re: B16 valve springs in b18b1

I'm also interested. I have a few sets of stock b series vtec valve train and I'm a big time non vtec b series lover.
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Old 09-25-2018, 08:47 PM
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Default Re: B16 valve springs in b18b1

ThatOneGuy96... don't worry my Honda friend, I pass no judgement. I think if you would actually visually examine the parts that you are discussing here for this cross breeding plan, you would SEE that it simply cannot work.

VTEC "B" series valve stems are 5.5mm wide. NON-VTEC "B" series valve stems are 6.6mm wide. This means that the hole in the center of a VTEC retainer is too small for the NON-VTEC valve stem to pass through with keepers installed. This also means that the inner radius/contour of the keepers themselves are unique to each valve stem size, and thus, cannot be interchanged.

As for the springs themselves... the outer diameter of a VTEC spring is significantly larger than that of a NON-VTEC spring, and thus, the inner diameter of the VTEC spring is larger and can accommodate the smaller diameter inner spring. Since the NON-VTEC spring is narrower on the outside, it is also narrower on the inside. So, there is not enough room inside for the VTEC inner spring to fit. If you want hard evidence to support these statements, lets do this:

You post a picture of one of your LS springs with an outer and inner diameter measurement, and I will respond with inner and outer VTEC spring measurements so that this information can be accurately archived for others who might ask this same question in the future.

Ready... break !!!
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Old 09-26-2018, 06:09 AM
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Default Re: B16 valve springs in b18b1

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