NAH2B

got to thinking today and came up w/ an idea which may make the vast majority of people happy who are either currently racing motor street or who would like to but are turned away by the high cost of being competitive today.

we all watched as the fast sfwd guys pushed the limits and from that the OUTLAW class was born!! well i think its time this happened in the sportsman allmotor class as well. we need this to happen in order to bring in new sportsman allmotor guys on an average budget and to allow our current big dogs to continue pushing the limits at the same time w/o continuing to scare away new blood from the sport. we also need this to make the transition to prostock that much easier which will help insure the growth of prostock as well.

so heres the idea, we revise the current rules of motor street to appeal to the vast majority of everyday average joe sportsman racers, hell even the streetstock guys could get in on this action. im talking about 2400cc max displacement limit @ 2300 lbs crazy right...well just hear me out and it will all make sense, or maybe just sound crazier knowing me lol. anyway go around 2000 lbs. for 2000cc and under to get all those b series cars back out here and running w/ the ks!! you know there are tons of them sitting around collecting dust... break it down by displacement like it is now but ALOT more strict to keep things in check. this class needs to stay in the 11 second max et range to succeed. no fuell cells, no induction systems sticking out of the hood, etc. make the class appealing, less intimidating and most importantly affordable for average guys!!!

now heres where things get interesting....add an OUTLAW ALLMOTOR class as an intermediate level class between street and prostock. this class will accomodate all of our current racers who love pushing the limits and going fast! 2699cc max displacement same as now but heres the thing, keep it simple either one wieght limit like 2100 lbs. or two limits like 2000 lbs for under 2599cc and 2100 lbs for 2599cc to 2699cc. this class would be a run whatcha brung to go fast class like what Jake has done at the shootout. why even have a weight limit you ask? it will be important to keep these et's from dipping into prostock level et's otherwise prostock could lose its shine and also we just wont ever feel the need to transition into prostock.

i would like everyone to understand up front i am not suggesting this idea to benefit myself in ANY way. i will actually be less competitive than i am now in the proposed outlaw class due to the low weight limit. however i am putting myself aside and making a suggestion to improve this sport just as i did w/ the ams class at ifo. look how well that class has turned out, its full of daily driven and weekend warrior type cars which never would have come out to race in the amp class otherwise. im sure Cliff will tell you it was a smart move and it payed off for everyone. well this idea can work just as well if not better. it has the potential to improve the allmotor side of our sport in every level ~ street, sportsman and even pro.

so whos in?

MARC P

Grabs popcorn.

Marc P

cardinalredeg

I like this this idea considering i dont have the funds or acess to the tools i would need to compete with u guys in that class and i even own a k series the level that witch u guys have progessed in the last 2 years is insane im not crying but that sounds like a very good idea that should be tossed around good thinking randy !

tepid1

Where is Pepsi when you need him. haha

HybridMT

Yep, Randy hosted the All Motor Sport class at the 2009 Maryland IFO with great success. We have since added Sport heads up classes (All Motor and Forced Induction) for daily driven street cars at all IFO events. Now, more racers compete in the heads up sport classes than all the other classes. Again, thank you Randy for helping out!

As for an Outlaw All Motor, it is a good idea, but there just are not enough cars to separate the class in my opinion. Maybe for some locations, but definitely not for most of the country.

O and J Performance

Car count is already low at the Pro Stock and Motor Street class adding another class will only hurt those 2 classes at this time.

rota92

Perfectly said.

0xenocron

If you have Pro cars going 9.5s and motor street cars going 10.5 and the you have all these others cars that want to race but can't hang then create a new class for that group....

Shoot for class rules that put everyone near 11.5s would make sense. If you could design the rules so that no one could go faster than 11.5 you would also not have to worry about safety equipment.

I think you would call it "Real Street"

2fastGSR

The idea is to create a class for the people that can't run 10.50s wit the current street all motor cars, and that in theory, is a good idea.

Just curious how many cars out there that would actually race in something like the lower class? How many people will actually put up and come out to race ?
I would think that if we are trying to create a class for cars to run low to mid 11s, and there are actually people out there that would want to run a class like that right now, wouldnt the 11.50 index class be filled with all motor cars?

I'm not sure if it would be enough to attract the same kind of cars right now, but then again who knows. I'm all for getting more cars to the races. Not many people can spend the kind of money we all do to TRY and go fast lol. It could be a stepping stone that people would actually use and benefit from, if they show up.

0xenocron

I'd sponsor the class for the end of this year or 2011, if Any organizers at E-town/Atco wanted to give it a go.

ExospeedAMcrx

There's plenty of fast street cars that are in the low 12s, high 11s. Your everyday b20/vtecs, stock k-swaps, etc. When you think about it, most of the street racers are in this level. Real Street cars, street racers.

The mistake thats been done with alot of classes is that there hasnt been major rule differences that really separate classes. It ends up overlapping the next fastest class.

I dont know what it would be but something that would prevent the car to really go beyond the times of that class whether it be weight, tire size, etc. BUT it has to be really a significant thing to prevent it from getting out of hand. These are what become Entry level street classes. Eventually, some of these guys will move on up to the faster classes. Its a breeding ground and easy stepping stone for many racers. I guarantee if you do a class like this in NJ with slightly higher entrance fee, bigger payout, estimated ETs(12.4-11.5), you'll get over 20 cars in this class easily. And it doesnt overlap with the existing outlaw All motor racers.

AllMtrRex

But what about sand-bagger's. High 10's low 11's guys would dominate this class by taking it easy and running 11.5-12.4's. Plus they would even enjoy it, less likely to break.

rota92

You make the rules so they can't.

Like on a B-series you allow say, headwork and bolt ons only. On K's you allow bolt ons and weight or something like that.

Don't slow cars down, create classes that are cheap to begin with and continue racing.

Why do you think there are so many sticker'd up mid 90's cavaliers running brackets? Because it's cheap and they can race, so use the same concept of cheap and easy () and apply it to some heads up stuff.

AllMtrRex

The engines would have to be pumped to make sure of headwork and bolt ons only.

rota92

I don't own a sanctioning body lol Don't get too literal now.

Build a class that already has cars out there so nothing needs to be built, promote it to death, and only adapt it as the mods of the masses shift about.

AllMtrRex

I agree 100%, just have to make sure that racers on a budget aren't racing against faster cars that should be racing in a faster class but wouldn't quite be competitive. Basically, I agree with Wil, there are plenty of guys that run 12.5's-11.5's out there. "Real street cars". Promoters/organizers/tech would have to make sure they were the ones running the class and not 20k cars taking it easy.

ExospeedAMcrx

What 10sec or low11 sec car would want to to slower for smaller payout. Don't worry abouthat. The mentality of a die hard racer that has put in hat much money wont take a step down in class. Racers at that level live for being at the top of he best. Not the top o the slowest

1grex

Man, sounds like Outlaw Street Stock ..I get the impression that S/S has failed. So here we are, still trying to get people to get off the street and bring it to the track. I work with a bunch of these dudes and I don't know man, they just don't seem to get it. The fact that sanctioned events exist doesn't matter to them. There is a line in the sand somewhere. At least in my neck o the woods

project504

I think this would help.
I currently got rid of all my B series stuff becasue what was competitive 2 years ago looks like a joke now.
but it was a really fast DD

crazes

you know this would not be a bad idea. i know alot rsx, civic, prelude and other cars that people built there motors but they dont want to put there motors into civics or intergas cause they like there car and if they have a civic they dont want to chop it up to run in the class..... I mean if i could run my prelude in a class and not be always running brackets i would like this..

q16racer

i can definitely agree with wanting to keep my non integra/civic chassis.
________
Yamaha Tz125

AllMtrRex

Ones that do not want to spend the money to stay competitive.... Mid 10's now, low 10's soon enough. Smaller payout would be worth it, if one could keep the same setup, lower shift rpm, save an engine and win races. just my opinion. I like the idea and support it and I know it would consist of mainly true 12.5's-11.5's cars just wouldn't want any sand-bagger's to ruin it and they would like they ruin an index class.

NAH2B

like i said the rules for motor street would need to be strict from the beginning and kept in check to prevent people from dipping into 10's

take my car for example, just under the max proposed displacement limit of 2400cc and one of the most volumetricly efficient motors you will see out there, i have been 10.81 so now add 300 lbs, remove the (trough the hood) induction system and there you go 11 sec car w/ 0 chance of going 10s

also make both headlights required and dont allow intakes to stick through the bumper. take away a motors induction system and its not going to run numbers.

no fuel cells~ that adds a good bit of weight right back onto the rear of the car, again = slower et's

the possibilities are endless in keeping a class in check when you have another class available which everyone pushing the limits will want to run in OUTLAW ALLMOTOR

AllMoToRB18c

This sounds like a great idea if we can get both classes full but there are a few problems I see. First of all our class now doesn't have that many competitors to split it up into two classes. You might get the slower class full but the outlaw class will have like 5 cars in it. Second, what will keep someone from racing a "purpose built" car for the slower class? **** if I wanted to I can build a 10sec car @2300lbs and keep it under a 2.4 liter. InlinePro went 11.32 on drag radials @2450 in 2006. With the changes in engine program from then to know 10sec Kseries will def. be do able at 2300 even without induction out the front end. Then that will be dominating within the class rules and we will then be back to square one.
Just my .02

OmegaDynamics

If there was going to be smaller na class, take a page from the domestic guys to keep the tech process fast, spec throttle body size. No more than 65 or whatever number really limits the power. It works for the turbo classes, and many domestic classes. Keeps cost down for the class and would be better suit for the "street cars".