Should 11.50 and 10.50 Index be a 16car field? or all run?
#1
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Summit, NJ
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Should 11.50 and 10.50 Index be a 16car field? or all run?
Last year the 11.50 (and at the time 10.00 index) was an all run field. So aslong as you made a qualifying pass OVER the index, you got a crack at first round. You could go 11.500 or a 13.90 and you had a match first round, which I don't necessarily think is a good thing.
If you give a class an index to try and match and come close to, shouldn't the BEST 16 or 32 cars be rewarded a shot at the money? Not anyone who shows up to play. I think it should be earned and also cut to say, 16 cars for time restrictions.
I appreciate being able to have a HEADS UP place to race, on somewhat of a budget. I also love pro tree racing. The fact that on raceday the index classes get treated like the other "more big time" heads up classes where there is a push to get our class done and the finals in before curfew is spectacular. Thank you for that. But shouldn't we also be cut to 16 cars like the other heads up classes? If you want in the field, get your game and chop down the index.
So if you plan on participating in the index classes, lets hear your opinion. I personally don'0t care if you make it a 4 car field, 16, 32 or all run....I will try and get in. Index racing is very under rated and the fact that we are given the option to run it, 2 big thumbs up.
If you give a class an index to try and match and come close to, shouldn't the BEST 16 or 32 cars be rewarded a shot at the money? Not anyone who shows up to play. I think it should be earned and also cut to say, 16 cars for time restrictions.
I appreciate being able to have a HEADS UP place to race, on somewhat of a budget. I also love pro tree racing. The fact that on raceday the index classes get treated like the other "more big time" heads up classes where there is a push to get our class done and the finals in before curfew is spectacular. Thank you for that. But shouldn't we also be cut to 16 cars like the other heads up classes? If you want in the field, get your game and chop down the index.
So if you plan on participating in the index classes, lets hear your opinion. I personally don'0t care if you make it a 4 car field, 16, 32 or all run....I will try and get in. Index racing is very under rated and the fact that we are given the option to run it, 2 big thumbs up.
#2
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: "It's Miley" Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2,303
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Should 11.50 and 10.50 Index be a 16car field? or all run?
Last year in Jersey I raced 11.50. I went 11.3X, 12.0X, and 11.6X. Then happy with my 11.6 I pulled up in the lanes to expect to get matched up to a 16 car field. It was a shitshow... race whoever you pull up against...So the guy that was going 11.501 could have raced the guy that went 11.500... All you gotta do then is just pretend your car will not start (if there is an odd amount) and get a bye or goto the end of the line. This is dumb or at least not what i am used to...
If your going to make is an all run at least match us up in a ladder...
If your going to make is an all run at least match us up in a ladder...
#3
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Summit, NJ
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Should 11.50 and 10.50 Index be a 16car field? or all run?
That too. You can have "hitters" taking each other out in the early rounds and some guy sand bagging and lolly-gagging his way into the finals. Not the way it should be
#4
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Baltimore, MD, USA
Posts: 1,502
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Should 11.50 and 10.50 Index be a 16car field? or all run?
At MIR we will be doing all run fields, giving everyone a chance to run first round. Some of these indexes will have well over 16 most likely near 32 car fields at big events so the logistics of doing a ladder for 32 cars and getting them paired up in the lanes is allot of time and man power for all the index classes.
In order to limit the shenanigans, games, and stuff mentioned above what we will be doing is calling the index class to two lanes. The track official will have a shuffled deck of cards and will draw two cards.
Red Red first two cars in the right lane race.
Black Black both cars in the left lane race.
Red/Black or Black/Red first car in both lane races.
Number 1 qualifier goes to the back of the line IF there is a odd number of racers they get a bye run.
This allows the races to be completely random pairing, no musical chairs in the staging lanes trying to avoid the better cars or pick off the slower cars which slows events down and frustrates the majority of racers.
In order to limit the shenanigans, games, and stuff mentioned above what we will be doing is calling the index class to two lanes. The track official will have a shuffled deck of cards and will draw two cards.
Red Red first two cars in the right lane race.
Black Black both cars in the left lane race.
Red/Black or Black/Red first car in both lane races.
Number 1 qualifier goes to the back of the line IF there is a odd number of racers they get a bye run.
This allows the races to be completely random pairing, no musical chairs in the staging lanes trying to avoid the better cars or pick off the slower cars which slows events down and frustrates the majority of racers.
#5
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Should 11.50 and 10.50 Index be a 16car field? or all run?
In the case of NSCRA down here, i think it should be limited to a 16 car field. If 11.50 has over 16, maybe bump the slower cars that didnt qualify into 12.50, if 12.50 has over 16, bump them down to 13.50... and if anyone doesnt qualify for 13.50, well you should just run test n tune lol
just a suggestion
just a suggestion
#6
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Summit, NJ
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Should 11.50 and 10.50 Index be a 16car field? or all run?
Why cant it be a 16 car field? I understand index racing is a form of bracket racing. But in brackets, people dial in DIFFERENT. There is variety. In an index, it is a mix of heads up and bracket racing so why not get the best of the best? Make them work for it since it is a cut above a regular bracket class?
Like I said...either way, I will be there for index
Like I said...either way, I will be there for index
#7
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Summit, NJ
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Should 11.50 and 10.50 Index be a 16car field? or all run?
I also applaud MIR for trying to work with an all run field, and make it even for people.
Trending Topics
#9
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Valdosta, Ga, 31605
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Should 11.50 and 10.50 Index be a 16car field? or all run?
At MIR we will be doing all run fields, giving everyone a chance to run first round. Some of these indexes will have well over 16 most likely near 32 car fields at big events so the logistics of doing a ladder for 32 cars and getting them paired up in the lanes is allot of time and man power for all the index classes.
This allows the races to be completely random pairing, no musical chairs in the staging lanes trying to avoid the better cars or pick off the slower cars which slows events down and frustrates the majority of racers.
This allows the races to be completely random pairing, no musical chairs in the staging lanes trying to avoid the better cars or pick off the slower cars which slows events down and frustrates the majority of racers.
#10
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lower Right Hand Corner, PA
Posts: 5,643
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Should 11.50 and 10.50 Index be a 16car field? or all run?
Maybe I'm missing something, but how the hell are people even playing games with a class like this? Isn't the rule more or less 11.50, run faster than that and you're out. Heads up, beat the guy next to you and move on. How do you play games with this? If you're not faster then the guy next to you what's the difference if you bag out and race a guy slower than you? Make it to the next round and get beat by the dude later?
However, just reading this I am surprised that there isn't a 16 car field. Maybe you don't have to do pairings, but it wouldn't be all that bad of an idea to at least cut all of the slower cars out. I just don't see the point in a car running high 12s racing in an 11.50 index class.
However, just reading this I am surprised that there isn't a 16 car field. Maybe you don't have to do pairings, but it wouldn't be all that bad of an idea to at least cut all of the slower cars out. I just don't see the point in a car running high 12s racing in an 11.50 index class.
#11
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Baltimore, MD, USA
Posts: 1,502
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Should 11.50 and 10.50 Index be a 16car field? or all run?
We do respect the index classes racer thats why we are giving everyone a shot at first round win, we are also work on some new stuff to help the index classes grow so stay tuned
#12
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Summit, NJ
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Should 11.50 and 10.50 Index be a 16car field? or all run?
You can deff. play games in index classes, especially if you KNOW the other guy can run under 11.50 also. Just like bracket racing there is strategy involved if you want it to be. Not going to sit here and tell you different techniques but there is ways. Remember, if you go BOTH go under the index, who ever is by less wins....
Personally I am going for 10.50 and my car wont even go 10.60 if it fell off a building, but I believe with strategy and driving I can go rounds and pick some people off this year hopefully.
Letting EVERYBODY have a chance at a round win is like high school sports with a NO CUT policy where everyone gets playing time....*thumbs down* Classes that are GENUINLY heads up like SPFWD, all motor and such put guys on a ladder and have cuts....why can't we?
If someone doesnt qualify for the index class they need to step up their game or let them go run brackets and try to win a round there. Whats the difference?
Can we get someone from OGS to chime in here?
Personally I am going for 10.50 and my car wont even go 10.60 if it fell off a building, but I believe with strategy and driving I can go rounds and pick some people off this year hopefully.
Letting EVERYBODY have a chance at a round win is like high school sports with a NO CUT policy where everyone gets playing time....*thumbs down* Classes that are GENUINLY heads up like SPFWD, all motor and such put guys on a ladder and have cuts....why can't we?
If someone doesnt qualify for the index class they need to step up their game or let them go run brackets and try to win a round there. Whats the difference?
Can we get someone from OGS to chime in here?
#13
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Budds Creek, MD, USA
Posts: 1,951
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Should 11.50 and 10.50 Index be a 16car field? or all run?
The All-Run field really helps with getting bigger car counts. Plus a racer can double enter and buy a tech card for the E.T. Bracket race and buy a tech card for an Index class and race for two purses.
If you limit the field to 16 cars, it's hard to eventually get a big number of cars to support the class.
In our MIROCK Superbike Series, we have a class called Crazy 8's (a 8.88 index bike class) and it is an all-run field. The Crazy 8's class pulls in 40-50 bikes at every event now. The class would not be anywhere near that size if it was limited to a 16 bike field.
The whole point is to fill the pits full of racers and have a great time racing. If someone isnt fast enough to qualify for 11.50 and its an all run field, then they will just be an easier car for you to beat.
But I do agree that there needs to be a random pairing system, and we will be doing just that at all MIR events with cards at the front of the staging lanes. It will pair cars randomly and you wont get to pick the car you have to race. All you need to do is try to run as close to 11.50 as possible and the pro tree will drop and have side by side racing, unlike bracket racing has.
If you limit the field to 16 cars, it's hard to eventually get a big number of cars to support the class.
In our MIROCK Superbike Series, we have a class called Crazy 8's (a 8.88 index bike class) and it is an all-run field. The Crazy 8's class pulls in 40-50 bikes at every event now. The class would not be anywhere near that size if it was limited to a 16 bike field.
The whole point is to fill the pits full of racers and have a great time racing. If someone isnt fast enough to qualify for 11.50 and its an all run field, then they will just be an easier car for you to beat.
But I do agree that there needs to be a random pairing system, and we will be doing just that at all MIR events with cards at the front of the staging lanes. It will pair cars randomly and you wont get to pick the car you have to race. All you need to do is try to run as close to 11.50 as possible and the pro tree will drop and have side by side racing, unlike bracket racing has.
#14
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Budds Creek, MD, USA
Posts: 1,951
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Should 11.50 and 10.50 Index be a 16car field? or all run?
Check out some of these qualifying and eliminations from the MIROCK Crazy 8's class:
All done with random pairings at the lanes with cards and all-run fields with great racer participation.
http://www.mirockracing.com/results/...zy_8s/qual.htm
http://www.mirockracing.com/results/...y_8s/elims.htm
http://www.mirockracing.com/results/...azy8s/qual.htm
http://www.mirockracing.com/results/...zy8s/elims.htm
http://www.mirockracing.com/results/...azy8s/qual.htm
http://www.mirockracing.com/results/...zy8s/elims.htm
All done with random pairings at the lanes with cards and all-run fields with great racer participation.
http://www.mirockracing.com/results/...zy_8s/qual.htm
http://www.mirockracing.com/results/...y_8s/elims.htm
http://www.mirockracing.com/results/...azy8s/qual.htm
http://www.mirockracing.com/results/...zy8s/elims.htm
http://www.mirockracing.com/results/...azy8s/qual.htm
http://www.mirockracing.com/results/...zy8s/elims.htm
#15
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Budds Creek, MD, USA
Posts: 1,951
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Should 11.50 and 10.50 Index be a 16car field? or all run?
The Honda Day flyer says 10.50 and 11.50 is an all-run field, and I agree 100%. Right now we can't afford to cut any racers out of the program.
http://www.hondaday.com/blog/2011/03...1-02-back-web/
http://www.hondaday.com/blog/2011/03...1-02-back-web/
#16
Re: Should 11.50 and 10.50 Index be a 16car field? or all run?
Letting EVERYBODY have a chance at a round win is like high school sports with a NO CUT policy where everyone gets playing time....*thumbs down* Classes that are GENUINLY heads up like SPFWD, all motor and such put guys on a ladder and have cuts ....why can't we?
If someone doesnt qualify for the Heads up class they need to step up their game or let them go run brackets and try to win a round there. Whats the difference?
Can we get someone from OGS to chime in here?
The same idea goes for the heads up classes if you dont qualify you can go to brackets and run there. If you can run constant low 11.6's then ur still running bracket styles. Index is brackets with a pro tree. thats it
#17
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Summit, NJ
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Should 11.50 and 10.50 Index be a 16car field? or all run?
Crazes...which heads up class can I run a 1400pound, all-motor, 1966 VW bug in?? Nothing besides an index class an I am VERY GREATFUL for that...but I cant "step up" into anything else or I would. No, I am not buying a honda. Not in my blood haha
No one is bitching here that I see, just throwing opinions out there and trying to make it better. Right now it seems like people that participate mostly would like to see some cap on the field.
Of course the promotors want as many cars there as they can get. I would too if I was trying to make a buck. But I dont think many guys are siting home going "My car goes 11.90s but since it is an all run field so I will attend instead of staying home" They would probably drag their car out regardless and just run another class.
As I have said before, I will come support wether it is all run or there is a bump spot.
No one is bitching here that I see, just throwing opinions out there and trying to make it better. Right now it seems like people that participate mostly would like to see some cap on the field.
Of course the promotors want as many cars there as they can get. I would too if I was trying to make a buck. But I dont think many guys are siting home going "My car goes 11.90s but since it is an all run field so I will attend instead of staying home" They would probably drag their car out regardless and just run another class.
As I have said before, I will come support wether it is all run or there is a bump spot.
#18
Re: Should 11.50 and 10.50 Index be a 16car field? or all run?
ok I am not going to ask you change your car at all hell I am running a prelude. But you could add weight and that would put you in pro all motor class or quick 32 something along those lines and you would be able to .run there. I probably should not have used you cause I know you have been there to support races. But I am talking about all the other racers that choose to make the same comment and complain then when they have sandbaggers
#19
Re: Should 11.50 and 10.50 Index be a 16car field? or all run?
In order to limit the shenanigans, games, and stuff mentioned above what we will be doing is calling the index class to two lanes. The track official will have a shuffled deck of cards and will draw two cards.
Red Red first two cars in the right lane race.
Black Black both cars in the left lane race.
Red/Black or Black/Red first car in both lane races.
Number 1 qualifier goes to the back of the line IF there is a odd number of racers they get a bye run.
This allows the races to be completely random pairing, no musical chairs in the staging lanes trying to avoid the better cars or pick off the slower cars which slows events down and frustrates the majority of racers.
Red Red first two cars in the right lane race.
Black Black both cars in the left lane race.
Red/Black or Black/Red first car in both lane races.
Number 1 qualifier goes to the back of the line IF there is a odd number of racers they get a bye run.
This allows the races to be completely random pairing, no musical chairs in the staging lanes trying to avoid the better cars or pick off the slower cars which slows events down and frustrates the majority of racers.
I ASSume (you didnt mention) but this random pairing is only for the 1st round, after that there will be a ladder?
I think in the 11.50 class, if you break out in all of your qualifiers...you should be REQUIRED to move up to the 10.50 index
10.50 car counts are usually a little lower anyhow...and it will keep some of the sandbaggers who just need to improve their driving away from sandbagging.
I also think it should be an immediate DQ if your trap speed in the 1/8th mile is faster than your 1/4 mile...I had this happen to me at MIR last year
#20
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: south jerz
Posts: 1,611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Should 11.50 and 10.50 Index be a 16car field? or all run?
I also think it should be a 16 car field. People I know have been known to park on the side of the gate when the class has been called to the lanes in hopes to be the "odd man" out and get a bye into the next round. Plus it becomes more competitive.
Either way in still there and racing. Goodluck this year.
Either way in still there and racing. Goodluck this year.
#21
Re: Should 11.50 and 10.50 Index be a 16car field? or all run?
Chris is def right. Personally I have a b allmotor car that I run in 11.50index and it sucks everytime bc my car runs consistent but I'm runing turbo guys that best me to the 1/8 then I slowly catch up be cause they turned the car off, ***** weak! Mos def keep it at 32cars but there should be a ladder set up. Basically I can go enter in the 11.50 and my car runs 10.9 and win everytime. I mean everyone knows that the index classes are for the the slower guys, and for it to be far we need a ladder period. But that still won't stop the sandbagging. Xenocron is so right about the auto DQ if the 1/8 mph is faster.
#23
Re: Should 11.50 and 10.50 Index be a 16car field? or all run?
I've been torn on this question since we started index racing at the sport compact events. I can relate to both sides, but the ultimate goal is to keep sand bagging to a minimum and have really close side by side racing. Long term, i think it will all work itself out. The domestic side mainly does all-run index classes and usually have large car counts that are very competitive. Over time the cars doing major sandbagging will move on to faster classes cause they won't win in a slower index and the slow cars will either get faster or find another class like brackets.
As much as a 16 car field would be cool for the racers, limiting car count probably isn't the best idea these days as we need to continue to grow the sport and get more racers out to the track. I do like MIRs idea of first round card shuffle but then it needs to go to a ladder in 2nd round.
One rule i wasn't crazy about and most didn't know is... when the cars do get laddered in the 2nd round, its not based off of your qualifying position, its based off of your first round win ET.
As much as a 16 car field would be cool for the racers, limiting car count probably isn't the best idea these days as we need to continue to grow the sport and get more racers out to the track. I do like MIRs idea of first round card shuffle but then it needs to go to a ladder in 2nd round.
One rule i wasn't crazy about and most didn't know is... when the cars do get laddered in the 2nd round, its not based off of your qualifying position, its based off of your first round win ET.
#24
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Should 11.50 and 10.50 Index be a 16car field? or all run?
random pairing for the 1st round is one thing, but for every round is just ridiculous. how much "man power and time" does it take to make a 16 car ladder in the second round?
#25
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Baltimore, MD, USA
Posts: 1,502
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Should 11.50 and 10.50 Index be a 16car field? or all run?
What happens when you have 23 cars in second round, or 17, or any odd ball number?
With a all run field you don't have the simplicity of 32/16/8/4/2 car ladders as you go rounds.
Most towers are swamped with racers asking about ladders and they work their ***** off all day doing ladders for the heads up classes. This system will help the index racers not have to worry about anything out side of their passes all day. No games in the lanes, no trips to the tower for ladders, no confusion lining up cars in the lanes.
With a all run field you don't have the simplicity of 32/16/8/4/2 car ladders as you go rounds.
Most towers are swamped with racers asking about ladders and they work their ***** off all day doing ladders for the heads up classes. This system will help the index racers not have to worry about anything out side of their passes all day. No games in the lanes, no trips to the tower for ladders, no confusion lining up cars in the lanes.