Fabman

well guys i think post like this just take the wind from every one sail and it **** like this that will kill the sport that we all love!!! yes the gm cars are faster then the rest ,but maybe we need a class like earl is taking about but then we will have less car in the a class and b class may have more car so then we will still have a prob and we are back in the same boat, and runing pro fwd like comp with that head start stuff sucks for the fans allso rember its a pro class not sportsman racing!!! so what can we all do i know one thing **** like this suck maybe we all need to work harder and not look for the easy way out and make a new class so we can be winners

ComposiMo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Fabman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well guys i think post like this just take the wind from every one sail and it **** like this that will kill the sport that we all love!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Whoah, posts like mine??? WTF, i'm building a car for the class regardless of what they do with rules.... i'm not whining one bit... if you weren't replying to me, then quote who you ARE replying to...

earl

Pat, you know we are still in this Hot Rod I thing as you are building our "GM killer" but racer turnout is dropping. We have to come up with a plan or changes to insure we still have a place to race our import cars. I'm open to other well thought out plans to get the job done. I wish it was as easy as just work harder. Now it seems it is just spend harder and that is turning away too many entry level pro racers.

lsvtecvx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I wish it was as easy as just work harder. Now it seems it is just spend harder and that is turning away too many entry level pro racers.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Stunna BEN

Sounds like its time to get out the lists and start adding Signatures to it!

Fabman

yes your right we need to have a get together with nhra and nopi and work some thing out... now we need to find some one to do the taking like you

earl

Watch for changes to come out of IDRC for next year. Look for an expanded West Coast schedule to bring some love back to this side of the USA.

Stunna BEN

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Fabman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes your right we need to have a get together with nhra and nopi and work some thing out... now we need to find some one to do the taking like you </TD></TR></TABLE>

I too believe Earl would be a great person for the talking.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Watch for changes to come out of IDRC for next year. Look for an expanded West Coast schedule to bring some love back to this side of the USA. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Good job. If things dont go well, Stunna is more than happy to promote the Petitions!

S13Sean

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Great idea but will NEVER happen. It would eliminate the Ecotec cars, something that GM and NHRA would never let happen. There is not a simple fix to this problem but my plan will work...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I know that the Ecotec program was designed to run on alcohol from day one. I know that alcohol does allow you to make considerably more power but the fact is that most racers in the hot rod class are running on it anyhow. Alcohol isn't the factor that's making the playing field unbalanced. Marty is consistant as hell and it's because of that transmission and brains behind the program. Limiting other factors in the class will help keep things competitive but like you said, it appears that NHRA is in bed with GM too much and that's the real problem.

Other than combining the classes what other suggestions are there? Rember GM has the resources to build a vehicle for just about any class so you have to keep that in mind. Also there will be other teams that are well funded that will venture into the arena as well in the future. This may not happen for a while since attendence at the NHRA events are ho-hum at present but when they figure out the formula expect things to get worse in terms of big dollar teams.

Jared

First, convinving NHRA of any of this will be difficult at best because they are so deep in with GM, it's disgusting, and some won't admit it, but it's the truth. It's not about slowing people down, or giving weight or power breaks to slower cars, it's about limiting the effect of money on the class. Make the rules in Hotrod such that throwing tons of money into extra engines, power adders, etc.. doesn't get you wins immediately, if not, we end up with races that we already know Marty is going to win., kind of like F1 and Schumacher was, how fun is that to watch? I think the step from SFWD to Hotrod should be the giant leap that it is now. I would like to see unibody cars and frame cars in the same class, call it Profwd, give weight breaks to unibody cars, let them run any slick, any turbo, any power adders, any driveline configuration. Then change the hotrod rules to make the cars more like the ones we saw two or three years ago. Limit it to a 28" slick, gas only, weight penalty for running two power adders, stock tranny that was publicly available in runs of more than 50,000 or something to keep mfgs from producing a race only tranny, also ony an E-W engine position like factory. No tube frame cars with unibody parts "molded on" like we've seen, cars must be TRUE unibody cars.

Curtis Boggs

What about a rear engine dragster class??

Cheap way to go fast, .. say 4 cyl with one power adder, .. ..900 - 1,000 lbs. min weight.

Dragsters are fun cars to drive, and are fairly cheap compared to other classes, ..
could use a common 2 speed powerglide tranny like the NHRA comp cars, ..

I bet we'd have some in the 6's in a short time!!!

Curtis

This One

How about Move the Current Hotrod guys not up to Profwd, but Maybe an Outlaw class? And then have your patented hotrod #2 as hotrod.
Seems this year attendance is down so much, everyone is building their cars. Classes are bound to fill up agian.

james111

Pat, you know we are still in this Hot Rod I thing as you are building our "GM killer" but racer turnout is dropping. We have to come up with a plan or changes to insure we still have a place to race our import cars. I'm open to other well thought out plans to get the job done. I wish it was as easy as just work harder. Now it seems it is just spend harder and that is turning away too many entry level pro racers.

attendance has always been low on the west coast and in texas ......the east coast from what i have heard has always been strong...why is this? same cost to get in? do they spend more on advertisement? do they start advertising earlier? radio and print? we need to find these things out to "help" our industry grow. i talked with alot of racers in ennis and alot of company rep's and nearly all said that nhra does little to promote the events.....this is upsetting when so many have the same thing to say...and the company reps were not little guys....nor were the racers little guys...

this has been the general comment thru the years from my talking with people at the events...what can we do to help , who do we have to talk to in nhra to help...what pull do we each have to get this done? i have a friend very high up in clear channel radio that could be a help in advertising who else can contribute?
and who will step up and contact nhra on this help we can offer?

damit its time to step up and stop bitching about the low turnouts . contact nhra nopi and tell them where u are at and when a event is coming to ur part of the world send u a freakin box of flyers and you will do your part to get them out to the "general" public....hell nopi helps its contributers out and either has tickets waiting for u or a discounted rate for those who help get the word out for them, or atleast they did in the past....

if im wrong say it and have a better idea to fix my wront idea.....if im right then step up and lend a hand to help "OUR" industry grow and thrive...


regards
james

4piston

A new class is not the answer. It is hard enough to fill the class as is. And that is not just because people are afraid to run GM...its that they can't afford to go to the races. The guys that can afford it are there.

I went to my first NHRA race in St. Louis. I like how NHRA runs things...its a nice setup. But the class turnouts are pathetic. It was a flat out joke. I counted 200 people in the stands...and even saw what looked like a sponsor packing the booth up on a Saturday.

I realize that people don't want to run the GM car. But NHRA has done this by allowing that car to run in Hot Rod. Its not the power...Hondas can make the power. Its the fact that they roll 4 engines out everytime they get there. Its the fact that the chassis IS NOT what a Hot Rod chassis was meant to be. Its the fact that a majority of the guys are bangin gears while Ladwig just pushes the gas.


1- There are too many sanctioning bodies. Gary, Tran, GM, Mopar, Demaree, Chuck, Laskey and all the other guys should be at every race. 4 bodies is too many...and if everyone was going to the same race series the sponsorship would be there and the money would be there for others to compete. Teams should be fighting for the #16 qualifying spot. That is the way its meant to be. Same goes for other classes. Bisi, Erick, Norris, LNatural, Skunk, Brauning...all these guys should be in the same seires...not split in 4 across the country.
2- If someone is running away with the class for years in a row...NHRA needs to come in and level the playing field. Ex: Make Ladwig shift gears...or make the chassis like every other Hot Rod chassis. Did they actually start with a Sunfire? I would like to know that.

I do know that making a new class is not the answer. Thats just going to split the few cars we have even more.

Arturbo

Marty still has to shift, its just on the steering wheel.

tommyten

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4piston &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Did they actually start with a Sunfire? I would like to know that.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would like to know this also

D-Man

I don't think a new class is going to save NHRA import racing that's for sure. It needs the Japanese factories to step up to the plate and show some support.Have them invest some of thier mega money into fresh cars and teams.Its time to stop crying about GMs or Mopars effort and support and to start crying about Honda,Toyota and Nissan and the rest of them being MIA all these years.

sittin on GOLD

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D-Man &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't think a new class is going to save NHRA import racing that's for sure. It needs the Japanese factories to step up to the plate and show some support.Have them invest some of thier mega money into fresh cars and teams.Its time to stop crying about GMs or Mopars effort and support and to start crying about Honda,Toyota and Nissan and the rest of them being MIA all these years. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Some one understands. Its not GM thats the problem. You have guys going just as fast.We put into honda motor company for many years and they havent done anything big for the honda guys. Its time to step up. NHRA has somethig up there sleeve, i guyss its not released to the public. Ill wait till Jim Skelly releases it


Modified by advertise at 6:56 PM 8/28/2004

earl

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Curtis Boggs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What about a rear engine dragster class??Cheap way to go fast, .. say 4 cyl with one power adder, .. ..900 - 1,000 lbs. min weight.Curtis</TD></TR></TABLE>Zup Curtis? I think it is a great idea to explore adding a 4 cyl dragster class. Can you imagine Honda vs Toyota vs Nissan vs Mazda vs General Motors. It would be fun

Chuck P

A majority of you guys are down right depressing! Reading some of the BULlSHIT you guys post is really pathetic!

Somebody sack up and do some research on the GM program from the start. Meaning the first Sunfire that was debuted at SEMA!

I understand the whole concept of target the guy on top, but damn atleast come with some decent bullshit!

Now it's the tranny..I wish I could post how many people ON THIS BOARD have contacted GM about this tranny as far as obtaining one(excluding the ones that I have tried to help get one ; )

Everyone worried about Marty...But what about...Lummus,Tran,Gardella and Crawford...all these guys are right there! Imagine the whinning that's going to go on next year!

All I have to say is......Get down and play in the yard or...stay on the porch

earl

A few things to remember...

I am not proposing an additional class...Just a different way to group the cars in classes already existing...to bring the excitement back. A different classification that will make it much easier for new racers to come into Hot Rod II. Push current fast imports up and bring in the new racers into Hot Rod II, where they will be competitive with the best cars there.

I would beg GM to build a Hot Rod II car. I'm sure it would run as quick as everyone else but it could not dominate without the high dollar equipment available to them in Hot Rod I. This would be great for the sport.

Also some mentioned about giving former Hot Rod cars a weight advantage in Hot Rod I. This would be impossible because ProFWD cars are full tube chassis and carbon fiber bodies. You could not hang enough weight on them. The only way to make this work is with the head start handicap system. It will be exciting to see if the faster cars can catch up to the heavier unibody cars.

I'm not crying about GM, they have pushed the sport ahead. More power to them but something needs to be done before GM and Honda have no formats to race in.

Chuck P

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A few things to remember...

I am not proposing an additional class...Just a different way to group the cars in classes already existing...to bring the excitement back. A different classification that will make it much easier for new racers to come into Hot Rod II. Push current fast imports up and bring in the new racers into Hot Rod II, where they will be competitive with the best cars there.

I would beg GM to build a Hot Rod II car. I'm sure it would run as quick as everyone else but it could not dominate without the high dollar equipment available to them in Hot Rod I. This would be great for the sport.

Also some mentioned about giving former Hot Rod cars a weight advantage in Hot Rod I. This would be impossible because ProFWD cars are full tube chassis and carbon fiber bodies. You could not hang enough weight on them. The only way to make this work is with the head start handicap system. It will be exciting to see if the faster cars can catch up to the heavier unibody cars.

I'm not crying about GM, they have pushed the sport ahead. More power to them but something needs to be done before GM and Honda have no formats to race in.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Earl, You raise very valid points that are worth considering

I don't want you to think I'm attacking you personally

earl

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lucky Luciano &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A majority of you guys are down right depressing! Reading some of the BULlSHIT you guys post is really pathetic!

Somebody sack up and do some research on the GM program from the start. Meaning the first Sunfire that was debuted at SEMA!

I understand the whole concept of target the guy on top, but damn atleast come with some decent bullshit!

Now it's the tranny..I wish I could post how many people ON THIS BOARD have contacted GM about this tranny as far as obtaining one(excluding the ones that I have tried to help get one ; )

Everyone worried about Marty...But what about...Lummus,Tran,Gardella and Crawford...all these guys are right there! Imagine the whinning that's going to go on next year!

All I have to say is......Get down and play in the yard or...stay on the porch</TD></TR></TABLE>Once again you have missed the whole purpose of this thread. It is not about you, your car or your personal needs. No where has the name Marty, Lumas, Crawford ever been mentioned. IT IS ABOUT THE STATE OF SPORT COMPACT RACING...NOT THE INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE. All the racers are great. Yes, we personally have been in contact with GM on trannys. Release everyone elses names also, who cares. GM HAS TREATED US VERY FAIRLY. MORE THAN WILLING TO SHARE INFORMATION AND HELP. Marty has been a great guy to us. So what? It is not about who is #1...IT IS ABOUT KEEPING THIS CIRCUT TOGETHER AND ADVANCING IT. If I am so wrong, come up with your own plan that will work for everyone.

Sorry for the rant but I care about this passionately. I'm looking for help here.

espanol

there will be faces that come and go, and some will be remebered and some will be forgotten.i think the way things are set up now are just fine.if anything, there's to many limitations.if you can't keep up with the hot-rod class then don't build a hot-rod car.if you can't keep up w/ the sfwd class then don't build a sfwd car.look, there's always bracket racing, and i don't think it takes to much money to compete in that.hey, in the end everyone has to grow up and get a real job.

Chuck P

I guess you ALSO missed my reply! I wasn't attacking YOUR efforts to find answers for YOUR opinnion on what YOU think Sport Compact Racing needs!

Merely expressing MY opinion to threads that OTHERS have posted!

Did you miss my point?..."EARL you raise valid points that are worth considering"
"I don't want you to think I'm attacking you personally"


I wasn't airing out anyones business! Simply bringing a new perspective!

If you read ALL the posts you can start linking exactly what was replied to!

I can use quotes if you would like!

Lastly, I also doubt YOUR the only one who is passionate about racing



Modified by Lucky Luciano at 2:39 AM 8/30/2004