467whp, thought on trap speed? Low?
03-23-2012, 07:54 AM
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Re: 467whp, thought on trap speed? Low?
Don't mind the spinning of the wheel a little during the burnout. Not sure why I did that. Didn't do that on the other runs. Sorry for the crappy quality, too. It isn't on my computer.
03-23-2012, 01:45 PM
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Re: 467whp, thought on trap speed? Low?
Thanks for the input, guys. It is much appreciated. If you are interested, please read concerning the dyno numbers:
"We here at IMW hear a lot of talk about how the tuning tool we love, our DynaPack 3000, "reads high", or should be brushed off as "inaccurate."
The picture here depicts two plots from the same car, one from our resident DynaPack hub dyno, and the other from our friends at McNew's Automotive's DynoJet roller dynamometer.
As you can see, at cars of this power level, the difference is trivial. We ...would like to do some testing of a higher powered car (500+) in the future, just for a reference point!"
It's not a question of whether or not the car makes power, but maybe whether it was losing power throughout the runs due to the mixture (which some of you say that it probably was).
Concerning the falling out of boost and shifting slow, I can say that it isn't the easiest task getting the car to shift very fast at high rpm with the stiff *** pressure plate and single disc clutch @ high rpm. However, I wouldn't say that I was "granny shifting." I am at class right now, but when I get home, I will upload an in-car video of the 12.1 run.
Thanks again
"We here at IMW hear a lot of talk about how the tuning tool we love, our DynaPack 3000, "reads high", or should be brushed off as "inaccurate."
The picture here depicts two plots from the same car, one from our resident DynaPack hub dyno, and the other from our friends at McNew's Automotive's DynoJet roller dynamometer.
As you can see, at cars of this power level, the difference is trivial. We ...would like to do some testing of a higher powered car (500+) in the future, just for a reference point!"
It's not a question of whether or not the car makes power, but maybe whether it was losing power throughout the runs due to the mixture (which some of you say that it probably was).
Concerning the falling out of boost and shifting slow, I can say that it isn't the easiest task getting the car to shift very fast at high rpm with the stiff *** pressure plate and single disc clutch @ high rpm. However, I wouldn't say that I was "granny shifting." I am at class right now, but when I get home, I will upload an in-car video of the 12.1 run.
Thanks again
Dynopaks do read high and it's more visible on higher horsepower cars because the lose in power strapping high power cars down.You really need to go to the track a few more times and get some more logs to get an accurate picture of what is going on. You're doing like 25mph in the back half, which is pretty close to what it should do (maybe just alittle more). Your 1/8 mph is probably low from falling out of the power. All your power is after 6200 and shifting at 8800 is not high enough. Rev it some more, that torque curve clearly wants more rpm.
03-23-2012, 05:55 PM
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Re: 467whp, thought on trap speed? Low?
Put that same car on a Dyno Dynamics dyno and see what happens Dynopaks do read high and it's more visible on higher horsepower cars because the lose in power strapping high power cars down.
You really need to go to the track a few more times and get some more logs to get an accurate picture of what is going on. You're doing like 25mph in the back half, which is pretty close to what it should do (maybe just alittle more). Your 1/8 mph is probably low from falling out of the power. All your power is after 6200 and shifting at 8800 is not high enough. Rev it some more, that torque curve clearly wants more rpm.
Dynopaks do read high and it's more visible on higher horsepower cars because the lose in power strapping high power cars down.You really need to go to the track a few more times and get some more logs to get an accurate picture of what is going on. You're doing like 25mph in the back half, which is pretty close to what it should do (maybe just alittle more). Your 1/8 mph is probably low from falling out of the power. All your power is after 6200 and shifting at 8800 is not high enough. Rev it some more, that torque curve clearly wants more rpm.
No, I was there on the 17th (Saturday).
03-23-2012, 07:44 PM
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Re: 467whp, thought on trap speed? Low?
Put that same car on a Dyno Dynamics dyno and see what happens Dynopaks do read high and it's more visible on higher horsepower cars because the lose in power strapping high power cars down.
You really need to go to the track a few more times and get some more logs to get an accurate picture of what is going on. You're doing like 25mph in the back half, which is pretty close to what it should do (maybe just alittle more). Your 1/8 mph is probably low from falling out of the power. All your power is after 6200 and shifting at 8800 is not high enough. Rev it some more, that torque curve clearly wants more rpm.
Dynopaks do read high and it's more visible on higher horsepower cars because the lose in power strapping high power cars down.You really need to go to the track a few more times and get some more logs to get an accurate picture of what is going on. You're doing like 25mph in the back half, which is pretty close to what it should do (maybe just alittle more). Your 1/8 mph is probably low from falling out of the power. All your power is after 6200 and shifting at 8800 is not high enough. Rev it some more, that torque curve clearly wants more rpm.
03-23-2012, 08:03 PM
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Re: 467whp, thought on trap speed? Low?
Its either driver, or it really doesnt make that much power. My 330hp 265tq full weight sohc EK trapped 118mph. and it didnt make **** power under the curve. powerband was 5500-7500 max
03-23-2012, 09:20 PM
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Re: 467whp, thought on trap speed? Low?
I use the exact same dyno and years ago my integra had a small setup in it that dyno'd 340whp ON THE SAME DYNO and it trapped 117 at the SAME TRACK.
The last car i personally tuned (eg civic)on that very same dyno made 503/320 and it trapped 135mph.
Please, lets move past the idea of the dyno reading 12342424324324whp too high, there is another issue at hand.
How does the boost curve look? I know John/Derek could provide that as its saved on the shop computer.
Last edited by BMo Tuning; 03-23-2012 at 09:41 PM.
03-23-2012, 11:57 PM
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Re: 467whp, thought on trap speed? Low?
You need to log the runs. You are only going to get guesses and idiots saying the dyno reads low when clearly there are plenty of cars running 128+ with that power level on dynapacks. The car sounds good and it doesn't seem like you were baby shifting so it is likely down on power.
I picked up 5mph+ on a similar power build before just changing WG springs because boost was dropping in the upper rpms. I was running more than double the spring pressure with a manual controller. Logs helped me find the problem quickly on that car. Log some runs even on the street for boost pressure. obviously runs at the track would be better. Put if back on the dyno if thats a possibility. Although I doubt it's the complete reason for your low trap speed but the 112 octane gasoline is not helping at all. Higher octane gas takes longer to burn so in effect retards timing and reduces power. That combined with what sounds like a cautious tuner who might have already taken out a lot of timing from the "glory" pull might mean you are 60-75whp down on power.
What EMS are you using?
I picked up 5mph+ on a similar power build before just changing WG springs because boost was dropping in the upper rpms. I was running more than double the spring pressure with a manual controller. Logs helped me find the problem quickly on that car. Log some runs even on the street for boost pressure. obviously runs at the track would be better. Put if back on the dyno if thats a possibility. Although I doubt it's the complete reason for your low trap speed but the 112 octane gasoline is not helping at all. Higher octane gas takes longer to burn so in effect retards timing and reduces power. That combined with what sounds like a cautious tuner who might have already taken out a lot of timing from the "glory" pull might mean you are 60-75whp down on power.
What EMS are you using?
03-24-2012, 05:09 AM
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Re: 467whp, thought on trap speed? Low?
Take it back without the octane mix and see how it does. If I recall correctly, when you were here I said it would be ok to put something like 100 or 104 mix in it for track use. Since the 112 was the only thing available, I did tell you to give it a shot when you sent me a message asking about it.
Also enable onboard logging to make sure your boost level is still in the range that we tuned it to. With weather change and condition changes the boost level can fluctuate when using the PWM boost control, we can compensate for it but we will need some logs to help you out here.
And on another note.. we have a shop car here (very similar weight car) that traps 128-129 and runs 11.2-11.3 consistently with a stock GSR that makes 380ish HP. It is not the dyno reading high.
It is on Hondata S300.
Also enable onboard logging to make sure your boost level is still in the range that we tuned it to. With weather change and condition changes the boost level can fluctuate when using the PWM boost control, we can compensate for it but we will need some logs to help you out here.
And on another note.. we have a shop car here (very similar weight car) that traps 128-129 and runs 11.2-11.3 consistently with a stock GSR that makes 380ish HP. It is not the dyno reading high.
It is on Hondata S300.
03-24-2012, 05:26 AM
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Re: 467whp, thought on trap speed? Low?
Thanks guys for clearing that up. It isn't an issue with the "dyno reading high." Just some sort of an issue that I need to get straigtened out for the next time.
I'm going to log a few pulls here soon, but not sure when since it is supposed to be crappy out today and tomorrow. I'll try to do some 2-4 pulls, but wheel spin might affect the results a little. I'll probably drain the fuel out of it also and put some straight 93 in before I take the logs.
Hopefully we can get the issue straightened out. Thanks again to everyone who has contributed to the thread.
Toby
I'm going to log a few pulls here soon, but not sure when since it is supposed to be crappy out today and tomorrow. I'll try to do some 2-4 pulls, but wheel spin might affect the results a little. I'll probably drain the fuel out of it also and put some straight 93 in before I take the logs.
Hopefully we can get the issue straightened out. Thanks again to everyone who has contributed to the thread.
Toby
03-24-2012, 05:43 AM
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Re: 467whp, thought on trap speed? Low?
I'm far from an expert, but it didn't look like you were WOT shifting. I would think you would need to WOT shift to keep that turbo in boost?
03-24-2012, 01:44 PM
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Re: 467whp, thought on trap speed? Low?
There are several other dynos not to far from you. The mustang dyno at YCU Dyno Tuning Specialist in York, PA has a couple cars that are running 11.5s-10.5 range with 380whp-470whp range. And mustang numbers read lower than other dynos, so maybe get another comparison of what your car does.
03-24-2012, 04:15 PM
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Re: 467whp, thought on trap speed? Low?
There are several other dynos not to far from you. The mustang dyno at YCU Dyno Tuning Specialist in York, PA has a couple cars that are running 11.5s-10.5 range with 380whp-470whp range. And mustang numbers read lower than other dynos, so maybe get another comparison of what your car does.
This has been covered, it's not the dyno.
03-24-2012, 08:41 PM
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Re: 467whp, thought on trap speed? Low?
I'd be interested in seeing the boost graph, you seem to make peak tq pretty late almost as if its boost creeping. Does the car have a boost solenoid and PWM on it? You could solve that issue easily with a solenoid and PWM by turning up the duty early on and tapering it off when it starts to creep
Also, the engine seems to hold tq pretty ****ing well and could be wound out a tad more, how is the valvetrain setup? If the valvetrain is up to it, i'd suggest revving it out til the power dies off.
then again, those two issues most likely wouldn't be cause for a -10mph trap.
Work with John, he will take care of you, he's a good guy and is very good at what he does.
Also, the engine seems to hold tq pretty ****ing well and could be wound out a tad more, how is the valvetrain setup? If the valvetrain is up to it, i'd suggest revving it out til the power dies off.
then again, those two issues most likely wouldn't be cause for a -10mph trap.
Work with John, he will take care of you, he's a good guy and is very good at what he does.
03-25-2012, 05:40 AM
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Re: 467whp, thought on trap speed? Low?
I'd be interested in seeing the boost graph, you seem to make peak tq pretty late almost as if its boost creeping. Does the car have a boost solenoid and PWM on it? You could solve that issue easily with a solenoid and PWM by turning up the duty early on and tapering it off when it starts to creep
Also, the engine seems to hold tq pretty ****ing well and could be wound out a tad more, how is the valvetrain setup? If the valvetrain is up to it, i'd suggest revving it out til the power dies off.
then again, those two issues most likely wouldn't be cause for a -10mph trap.
Work with John, he will take care of you, he's a good guy and is very good at what he does.
Also, the engine seems to hold tq pretty ****ing well and could be wound out a tad more, how is the valvetrain setup? If the valvetrain is up to it, i'd suggest revving it out til the power dies off.
then again, those two issues most likely wouldn't be cause for a -10mph trap.
Work with John, he will take care of you, he's a good guy and is very good at what he does.
The head is ported, has full crower valvetrain, and itr cams.
03-25-2012, 10:05 AM
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Re: 467whp, thought on trap speed? Low?
i had issues on the dyno with my pwm solenoid. some runs it would run the boost that matched the duty cycle, other runs it would run less boost... def something to look over
yeah i also figure its down something like that power range, for whatever reason.
so you were loosing around 50hp from falling boost before you bumped up the wg spring? thats pretty substantial
I picked up 5mph+ on a similar power build before just changing WG springs because boost was dropping in the upper rpms. I was running more than double the spring pressure with a manual controller. Logs helped me find the problem quickly on that car. Log some runs even on the street for boost pressure. obviously runs at the track would be better. Put if back on the dyno if thats a possibility. Although I doubt it's the complete reason for your low trap speed but the 112 octane gasoline is not helping at all. Higher octane gas takes longer to burn so in effect retards timing and reduces power. That combined with what sounds like a cautious tuner who might have already taken out a lot of timing from the "glory" pull might mean you are 60-75whp down on power.
What EMS are you using?
What EMS are you using?
so you were loosing around 50hp from falling boost before you bumped up the wg spring? thats pretty substantial
03-25-2012, 01:11 PM
#45
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Re: 467whp, thought on trap speed? Low?
I'd be interested in seeing the boost graph, you seem to make peak tq pretty late almost as if its boost creeping. Does the car have a boost solenoid and PWM on it? You could solve that issue easily with a solenoid and PWM by turning up the duty early on and tapering it off when it starts to creep
Also, the engine seems to hold tq pretty ****ing well and could be wound out a tad more, how is the valvetrain setup? If the valvetrain is up to it, i'd suggest revving it out til the power dies off.
then again, those two issues most likely wouldn't be cause for a -10mph trap.
Work with John, he will take care of you, he's a good guy and is very good at what he does.
Also, the engine seems to hold tq pretty ****ing well and could be wound out a tad more, how is the valvetrain setup? If the valvetrain is up to it, i'd suggest revving it out til the power dies off.
then again, those two issues most likely wouldn't be cause for a -10mph trap.
Work with John, he will take care of you, he's a good guy and is very good at what he does.
I can source the boost plots tomorrow at some point during the day and see if we can bring the power in a bit sooner!
As far as revving the car out further is concerned, it most certainly does carry torque very well through the RPM range. The limiter on this car is around 92-9400 if I recall and he can make full use of it while at the track, that is for sure.
Last edited by 93turbo16; 03-25-2012 at 01:28 PM.
03-26-2012, 01:10 AM
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Re: 467whp, thought on trap speed? Low?
i had issues on the dyno with my pwm solenoid. some runs it would run the boost that matched the duty cycle, other runs it would run less boost... def something to look over
yeah i also figure its down something like that power range, for whatever reason.
so you were loosing around 50hp from falling boost before you bumped up the wg spring? thats pretty substantial
yeah i also figure its down something like that power range, for whatever reason.
so you were loosing around 50hp from falling boost before you bumped up the wg spring? thats pretty substantial
torque plot on the OP's doesn't show much of any signs of creeping. Torque seems very flat.
03-26-2012, 12:53 PM
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Re: 467whp, thought on trap speed? Low?
B Mo. I wasnt saying the dyno was reading high. I was saying it for comparison purposes. The cars that put down those numbers @ YCU run said times. So if you were to put down similar numbers you should run said time.
Has he compared his numbers to other cars that were tuned at the same location, with there track times/mph?
And yes i know there are lots of variables.
Has he compared his numbers to other cars that were tuned at the same location, with there track times/mph?
And yes i know there are lots of variables.
03-26-2012, 04:56 PM
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Re: 467whp, thought on trap speed? Low?
last season with a ls tranny at 430 hp i was trapping 130mph
this season with a b16 tranny i was trapping same 1/4 mile time but 118mph could not get higher
im going back to get a higher rev limit set as im on stock rev limit .
this season with a b16 tranny i was trapping same 1/4 mile time but 118mph could not get higher
im going back to get a higher rev limit set as im on stock rev limit .
04-01-2012, 01:46 PM
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