cbstd

In one of our threads there seems to be some disagreement about what exactly is a "classic" Honda.

"Classic" has many definitions. In my mind it refers to an iconic design that makes an impact on the autmotive industry.

But it seems the common definition is merely an old car qualifies as being a classic and 25 years seems to be the Common Wisdom as being the tipping point for "classic" designation.

Out here in California cars last forever in the mild climate and 40 year old cars as daily drivers is not uncommon. So again, age alone is not enough in my mind to qualify as being "classic."

In the world of Hondas, the 1988 model year marks the beginging of the Honda "Modern Era." That model year marked a dramatic change in the entire product line from earlier designs. For most Honda enthusiasts, any product from before the the 1988 model year are quaint curiousities. With nearly no interchangeable parts, the line is drawn at the 1987/1988 model change.

The 1st Gen CRX/3rd Gen Civic/1st Gen Integra are not quite 25 years old yet so they do not fit that narrow age-defined label of "classic," they are significantly different enough from all subsequent Hondas to be considered of another era.

Scott

Stretch7

Not only is it "Common Wisdom" (as you like to call it) that defines the beginning of the classic age of the car, but, as I stated before, it is noted (legally) in the entire USA that 25 years old denotes a classic car. In other words, you can't get the "CLASSIC" car tag unless your car is 25 years old. In the world of Hondas, in most everyone's eyes, the second gen Accord barely gets the nod as classic. Let alone the third gen. And you can't really draw the line in the middle of a production model. The 86-89 Accords are all the same. In your mind, you have the 88 year being the cut off. What about the 89? It's the same car. And, under YOUR guidelines, the "87/88 model change" actually took place in 1986. SO you're shooting your self in the foot. I know you're upset that you've been told that your car is NOT classic status yet, but it's not really that big a deal.

This isn't a knock on your car. My 88 DX was one of my most favorite cars. It's just that in the actual classic community, the third gen Accord/Civic/CRX and all don't make the cut. Yet.

agreziv86EAS

I dont think the OP is in the red in any way. You sir, are completely right. unfortunately, in the realm of the honda world "classic or old school" falls in almost the same category for some strange reason. BUT, the real classics are the pre 84 models for sure , without a doubt. But ,hey were a different creme of the crop (1g crx,3g civic,1g integra,2g prelude/accord),. In a "Nostalgic" sorta way.











Modified by agreziv86EAS at 3:31 AM 10/6/2008

E-AT_me

ahh yes, "classic" honda tech people here. it was only a matter of time when they reared there ugly heads. just like "they" say what is clean, just like "they" say what is JDM, like "they" say what is slammed, now "they" say what is classic. oh well. i guess i'll just go back to RR/ax forum... i'll come back in 2 years when the state says my car is a "classic"..

Stretch7

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by E-AT_me &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">.. i'll come back in 2 years when the state says my car is a "classic"..</TD></TR></TABLE>

There you go. See you get it. Not sure why others can't. Lolol.

E-AT_me

btw, state constitutes a "classic" 25 years after the manufacture date.. my car was made in october 85, even though it's an "86" it will be 25 years old 2 years from now.

cbstd

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cbstd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
"Classic" has many definitions. In my mind it refers to an iconic design that makes an impact on the autmotive industry.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just because a bunch of know nothings in the state legislature drawn an arbitrary line in the sand and declare that car is "classic" at a certain age does not make it so. All they are doing is saying, "Ater 25 years we do not expect that car to get much usage on the roads so we will cut those owners a break on registration.

Is a 25 year old Chevette a "classic?" No, it is an old crap pile that continues to run (maybe). Just because it is old, does it deserve the respect and admiration accorded to a S800?

"Classic" is a term that is bandied about far too easily. Lets reserve the definition for those that deserve it.

Scott

2ndGenGuy

Maybe some people like 25 year old Chevettes. Maybe it has a cult following, and it's a classic 80 GM compact to those people. Just because YOU think it's a piece of **** doesn't mean someone else doesn't have fond memories of the car and really loves it. Maybe someone else thinks your Civic or CRX or whatever you have is a junky pile of crap car. See how that works?

Point is, you guys can argue until your face turns blue, but classic is in the eye of the beholder. I barely consider my 2nd Gen Accord to be a "classic." There are tons and tons of beater versions of it out there that people are still driving around. Most people say they're piece of **** junkers, and just run them into the ground. My 1st Gen Accord is more classic to me, even though it's only 3 years older. It's got a little bit to do with the styling for me, and the fact that there aren't many around.

For the sake of making our lives easier on a forum, I think setting a specific year to keep all the older cars in one section is definitely the way to go. Or else you'll have a mess of what people consider classic, and don't consider classic.

rotten

I personally think that the 360's, 600's, 800's, and perhaps the 1200's are the only true classic Hondas.

I think perhaps your definition is valid--although to me, if it is a Honda and it has fuel injection, it pretty much isn't a classic at this point. While states may have clinical definitions of a classic car, I also think to a certain extent a car has to be interesting or unusual to be considered a "classic". I love proletarian cars, but if there are a ton of them still on the road driven by normal people, its not really a classic yet.

I personally am interested in "Vintage Hondas", which to me means no fuel injection, and pretty much ends with what I consider to be the modern Hondas: CRX, 3g Civics, 1g Integras. While I like and even own some of these cars, they have way too much in common with the cars we drive today. The fact that you see them on the road every day (a testimonial to the build quality), and that they just aren't that interesting (although they can be 'cool')--just isn't really "classic" to me.

Perhaps I am just coming to grips with the fact that there is a different between a Classic and Vintage car.

If so, I'm a vintage guy 100%

Bozwell

over here in the UK there are what are known as "modern classics" which means that you can get the same insurance deals for low use milage etc as with the older cars. the insurance companies just ask that you be a member of a car club

my MK1 CRX is insured for 5000 miles fully comprehencive for a little over $200

"classic" is a broadly used term, does it really matter that it's 20 , 30 or 40+ years old?

could the S2000 be seen as a"modern classic" ??

2ndGenGuy

S2000 is definitely a modern classic. As is, I believe, any Civic Si model. And I mean a real, unmolested Civic Si. Try finding one that hasn't been riced out, lowered, cut up, exhaust modified, painted, wrecked, hacked up, engine swapped, butchered.

Stretch7

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rotten &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I personally think that the 360's, 600's, 800's, and perhaps the 1200's are the only true classic Hondas.

I think perhaps your definition is valid--although to me, if it is a Honda and it has fuel injection, it pretty much isn't a classic at this point. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree with you 100% there. My 79 CVCC is (to me) the last of the classic Honda Civics. I am also in agreement with the fuel injection angle. If it has fuel injection, it isn't old school. That is a popular phrase in the old school community.

But a lot of folks in the "community" pretty much adopt the 25 year deal for the "official" cut off.

cbstd

So if it's got fuel injection, it ain't a "Classic?" I bet that will be a surprise to the old school Porsche, BMW and Mercedes owners with cars from 30+ years ago.

Can we at least agree that the "Modern Era" for Honda began in the 1988 model year when the entire product line was revamped? Or do you go back to 1985 when the first of the D-series engines (and fuel injection) was introduced?

Stubbornly I will cling to the belief that the term "classic" is used far too loosely. To be classic it must stand the test of time, appealing today as much (if not more) than when it was introduced.

And I want to meet the person who thinks a Chevette is any kind of classic.

Then again, maybe I don't.

Scott

Stretch7

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cbstd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So if it's got fuel injection, it ain't a "Classic?" I bet that will be a surprise to the old school Porsche, BMW and Mercedes owners with cars from 30+ years ago.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I didn't say it was THE criteria. That's just a very popular phrase a lot of people like to use.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cbstd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can we at least agree that the "Modern Era" for Honda began in the 1988 model year when the entire product line was revamped? Or do you go back to 1985 when the first of the D-series engines (and fuel injection) was introduced?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Personally, I think the "modern Era" would begin with the 90 model year for the Accord. The model Accord that is the 88 came out in 1986. Now the Civic came out in 1988 with that body style and I can definitely agree with you that the 87 has much more of the classic look to it. And honestly, I sometimes think that next year, when it is "officially" recognized that the 1984 model year cars are classic, that the 1985-87 models could be sort of "grandfathered" in. As far as old school meets go, anyways.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cbstd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Stubbornly I will cling to the belief that the term "classic" is used far too loosely. To be classic it must stand the test of time, appealing today as much (if not more) than when it was introduced.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree about the looseness of the term. But to the point that people that have EFs and such think their cars are classic.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cbstd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And I want to meet the person who thinks a Chevette is any kind of classic.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Lolol. There are those that love that car. Just like the Pinto and other automotive "mistakes." Lolol.

E-AT_me

maybe it should be pre 88 model introduction.

whatever. doesn't matter what someone calls them. i do agree with the classic and vintage being two different terms. i would say that classic is something 20-30 years old, and older than 30 vintage. but what do i know, i'm only 24.. i guess i'm classic.

E-AT_me

btw, i don't think rarity has much to do with classic. look at the VW beetle. pretty darn classic, and pretty darn NOT rare. yes, some of the models/years within the beetle-ness are rare, but as a whole, not really..

a lot of people consider the 89-97 miata "classics" when they are way away from being 25 years old. they are definately modern classics, and compared to the brand new ones, they practically are classic. i think it's all in the eye of the beholder. it is all opinionated, and i don't think someone can truly put an exact year on it.

anyways, if the 80-87 civics aren't classic or vintage, they SURELY have to be "old school", right?

SINISTR

to me personally a classis car is something thats is both old and RARE.
25yrs seems to be quiet right seeing that Vintage here in OZ is at 50yrs old.
Rare because it was created on a limited run or rare because it became a cult car and rare in numbers.
Example - the Lancia Delta Integrale which is close to becoming a classic due to age, but its also a rally cult car and had a limited production run.
The CRX in my opinion is also a modern day classic - why? yes its reached 25yrs old, its had a relatively short production run (not on a massive scale) and these days is hard to get. Gen2s are also becoming scarce - here in OZ anyway, so not far from now it could also be regarded as a bit of a 'modern day' classic.
Give it another 25yrs and its definatelly a Vintage Classic at least I hope to still have my little GENONE then.

cbstd

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stretch7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Lolol. There are those that love that car. Just like the Pinto and other automotive "mistakes." Lolol.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sir, I demand a retraction!

The Ford Pinto was hardly a "mistake." A flawed design to be sure and not very appealing when compared to modern cars but in its day the Pinto was the orginal domestic compact sport coupe. In the hands of enthusiasts the Pinto was developed into a winner on the track and street. The engine lives on in the Formula Ford racing series.

Is it a classic? Heck no! But a car worthy of some respect for its potential under tuning.

Scott
(the first car I drove was my Mom's '71 Pinto)

E-AT_me

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cbstd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Scott
(the first car I drove was my Mom's '71 Pinto)</TD></TR></TABLE>

and thus, we finally figure out the roots of scott's issues.

btw, the Pinto is a classic when it's a wagon with chrome roof rack and woodgrain panelling.

85si

classic in my eyes is a car that was "iconic" in its time i use that term loosely because a car may be iconic to some but not to others. but more importantly it is the owner of the car that makes it a classic more then anything my 85 is a classic to me while it may not be 25 years old it is original and it is the first si so to me my car is classic to others how may be driving an 85 si (while i doubt any of these people are on here) the car is a car they got for cheap and it gets good gas mileage they know nothing of its history or heritage to them the car is just 23 years old and far from a classic therefore i think it is impossible for anyone but the cars owner to lable their car classic. may i remind you of the term "instant classic" that gets thrown around so often in the car world or lets say "limited edition" *cough pt cruiser cough* so we all know the fat cats are idiots and lets leave it up to ourselves to say "hey look at my classic honda" or pinto in some peoples cases

Bozwell

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stretch7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

If it has fuel injection, it isn't old school. That is a popular phrase in the old school community.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

early fuel injection was a perfomance upgrade. it's only later when there was more need for better fueling for the catalytic converter to work properly that everything went fuel injection.

Jaguar were using fuel injection 50 years ago


and if i remember rightly vintage is an era not an age of the car.

efstile

it must be "classy" not classy like the fat chicks at the karaoke bar that i so love... classy like an automotive version of audrey hepburn, now thats class. thumbs up for the fat chicks though here here

rotten

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cbstd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So if it's got fuel injection, it ain't a "Classic?" I bet that will be a surprise to the old school Porsche, BMW and Mercedes owners with cars from 30+ years ago.</TD></TR></TABLE>

For a Honda if it has fuel injection is ain't a classic. Every marque is different.

Actually I would argue that a 914, even though they made them back in 1960's and they had fuel injection I wouldn't still wouldn't quite consider a classic--its really close. Same for BMW 2002--both are the watershed point for those marques. That being said I do consider a Datsun 510 of the same era to be a classic.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can we at least agree that the "Modern Era" for Honda began in the 1988 model year when the entire product line was revamped? Or do you go back to 1985 when the first of the D-series engines (and fuel injection) was introduced?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think that 1985 is when we basically got the modern Hondas .

I think we all pretty much agree though that age is only part of the equation, other factors like coolness/rarity are also an issue.

I do believe there is also a "modern classic" or "future classics" like you guys are talking about. S2000, Integra Type R, etc. are good examples, as are the 350Z, etc.

rotten

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by E-AT_me &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> i would say that classic is something 20-30 years old, and older than 30 vintage. </TD></TR></TABLE>

SOVREN and some of the other vintage racing organizations won't let you race a car that was made after the mid 60's. Its been like that for at least 5-10 years though, eventually they will probably have to bump it up a bit.

Sometimes they allow exhibition cars though.

I will concede that the 80-87 Hondas are "Old Skool" if not "Classics".

EFinawesomeman

Your EG is not a classic.