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S600 restoration in South France

 
Old 02-08-2016, 11:37 PM
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Default S600 restoration in South France

Hello, I'm new on the forum. I'm leaving south of France and I just bought a S600.
Only 12 S600 have been sold in France and this one is coming from Switzerland
This is a convertible, red (R2 colour) the reference body is AS285F-1009231 and the engine should be AS285E-1011168, but the engine inside is 1007974 and I got another engine, disassembled, reference 1009182.
From the body number the car is late 66 and was registered the 1/1/1967!
The engine installed in the car is strangely equipped with cylinderhead, carburettor and air filter from a S800!
I have read all your post on the S600 and would say that in term of restoration of such car you are a world benchmark! This is outstanding and thanks to you and the explanations Ive found in the forum, I'm more confident to see one day the car on the road again :-)
I will start slowly by re-assembling the second engine. I have to manage currently the location for the car to stay for some years...
I've got the documentation available in the net, the parts lists and the shop manual on which the page 299 is missing (there is two time the page 300 ; the page 299 is the Group IV serviceable limit, engine section item 30 to 43. if one of you can send me the page in PM I would be delighted.
On the engine to be rebuilt, the water pump is missing and I would be interested by buying one, that perhaps one of you will be ok to sell and ship in France.
Some other parts are missing and I will make the list in the near future as soon as I have a clear view on the work to be done.
For example also I need a speedometer in KM/H (the one installed is in miles even if it is LHD)
The engine is in very good condition, the cylinders are still in standard size with a max deviation by 0,03mm! I have not found in the internet any new piston in standard size ? Do you know if it is possible get a set of piston in standard size or at least a set of new rings?
I know Im asking a lot of questions but it is the beginning and I appreciate the huge amount of work in front of me.
Thanks a lot for your forum.
some photos to start
Bernard
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Old 02-09-2016, 02:09 AM
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Default Re: S600 restoration in South France

Hallo! That sounds a great story, and I look forward to seeing more of your work. Some parts reference URLs for you:

??????????????

Xvbhc[ spread tools

Which should list a range of piston sizes - and lots more - to start.
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Old 02-09-2016, 06:15 AM
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Default Re: S600 restoration in South France

Welcome Albert and best of luck on the continued restoration of your S600. I've attached a page that hopefully will be of use in your search for parts.

~Steven

Honda S800 Sports Car Club - Spares
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Old 02-14-2016, 09:25 PM
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Default Re: S600 restoration in South France

Welcome Bernard,


I have subscribed to your thread and happy to help where I can. Does your spare engine have a good crankshaft? That is the starting point when it comes to rebuilding a S600 engine. Don't spend time and money on other parts until you are sure that your crank is within serviceable limits. All other engine parts are available new, used or reproduction. Ortmann in Germany is where I purchased new and reproduction engine parts. Fixing a damaged crank is near impossible.


Cheers,


John
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Old 02-14-2016, 10:47 PM
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Default Re: S600 restoration in South France

hello John,
thanks for the advise and as I am very well aware about the Japaneses racing motor cycle I know the issue with the crankcase. Except that for motor cycle we have everything to rebuild it and not for that very special S600 crankcase. Having read in detail and with attention your post and others on the S600 I will have the crankcase measured based on your method. So far the measurement done on other parts, cylinder, piston, valves are ok (the cylinder are in standard cotes well within the tolerance. The last to be check is the crankcase. Fingers cross for that.
Otherwise I've still issue with the room (location) where the car is and it could takes some weeks before starting the dismantlement of the car (because it will be there for some months (years ? )) , it is why I start now with the second engine and the inventory of the missing parts.
thanks for your advise,
bernard
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Old 03-21-2016, 02:56 AM
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Default Re: S600 restoration in South France

Hello, since last month I continued the dismantling, cleaning and inspection of all the parts.
Good news for the crankshaft : the measurement is well within the serviceable limits (between 0.02mm and .003mm play max).
Bad news for the upper crankcase where we have broken 4 studs during removal. The case need to be re-machining to get back to good state.
Also the oil centrifugal filter was full of very dense mud. But after cleaning it is ok.
I'm ordering parts to Mr Ortmann (including new piston @55mm) to start the engine reconstruction.
to be continued :-)
Bernard










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Old 03-22-2016, 11:34 PM
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Default Re: S600 restoration in South France

Good luck with the studs. If you're that deep into it, one of these for oil filters is great as it allows modern Honda screw on filters:



How do the carbs look. All overhaul parts are readily available... Neko
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Old 03-23-2016, 06:32 PM
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Default Re: S600 restoration in South France

In on the build.
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Old 04-10-2016, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: S600 restoration in South France

Amazing that oil pump... curious about the remise en tat des goujons de la culasse? How are you going to proceed to extract the broken studs... reverse drill or cooked the case a little and use some PB blaster to free the studs a bit???? I think that PB blaster is not available in France, so a mixture of 50/50 acetone/ autotransmission fluid such as dextron or mercon works well.
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Old 04-18-2016, 12:59 PM
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Default Re: S600 restoration in South France

hello,
last week was the end of the dismantling and the cleaning of the engine parts (see pictures)
We had the upper crankcase back for machining the broken studs, we will put helicoil in the default threads.
We have installed also the 2 new small roller.
The cylinder head was sent to machining to re-surfacing.
Does somebody have tested the Ortmann piston in high rpm ? just to know if they are ok with this very beautiful engine in motion.
To be continued
Thanks for your help, tips and advise.
bernard
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Old 04-20-2016, 04:53 AM
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Default Re: S600 restoration in South France

I've not tested the Ortmann pistons sorry. I would like to see them though! Over-sized? Neko
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Old 05-19-2016, 02:53 AM
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Default Re: S600 restoration in South France

Incroyable! Vous avez des photos de l'auto?
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Old 05-24-2016, 11:32 AM
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Default Re: S600 restoration in South France

This week we have continued the refurbishment of the engine and started the reassembly of the starting motor, the generator, the centrifugal oil filter, the fuel breaker the tachometer and the water pump....
We have also installed "helicoil" in the carbs to sustain the filter.
Cylinderhead and crankshaft assembly to come....
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Old 05-25-2016, 12:00 AM
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Default Re: S600 restoration in South France

Good luck on the resto. Are you protective coating the parts as well or just leaving them a raw finish?
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Old 05-25-2016, 01:42 AM
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Default Re: S600 restoration in South France

Hello, thanks for the question ; the protection of aluminium after cleaning is a very interesting subject and Im open to ideas or experiences having in mind to keep the right colour, area aspect. (varnish/glaze??)
bernard
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Old 05-25-2016, 06:54 AM
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Default Re: S600 restoration in South France

Many classic car restorers use Sharkhide metal protectant. I've used it on aluminum suspension pieces which see a fair amount of moisture and I'm very happy with the longevity and protection. Hopefully there is a distributor overseas.

Sharkhide * Metal Protectant * Aluminum Cleaner * Aluminum Polish * Black Streak Remover
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Old 09-22-2016, 10:29 PM
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Default Re: S600 restoration in South France

The tier down has resumed! It took me some time to find a location where the car could stay for a while (more than one or two year).
I have had some issues with the bolts between the body and the chassis, 2 of them have broken and I will have to remove the seized thread. I took a lot of picture to remember the way it is installed especially the electric harness.
As already experienced by other the configuration of the car is different from the parts list, it is a mix between S600 and S800, for example the clutch has mechanism from S600 and the slave cylinder from S800 with dedicated push rod. The hinges of the bonnet have little O-ring in each screw that are not in the parts list.
The most difficult will be to find and replace all the rubber that are not usable anymore.

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Old 10-01-2016, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: S600 restoration in South France

Good progress...
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Old 10-02-2016, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: S600 restoration in South France

Great work, will love to see your future posts.
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Old 10-05-2016, 12:56 PM
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Default Re: S600 restoration in South France

see two pictures of the o-ring on the hinges of the bonnet in each screw that are not in the parts list..



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Old 10-05-2016, 01:14 PM
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Default Re: S600 restoration in South France

The tier-down continue, after several attempt I succeeded to split the body from the frame.

Unfortunately 4 bolts have broken among the 24! I will have hard time to recover proper threads.

An other issue also is the thread of the 5mm screw and nut that is 0.90 in the car and now in SI/DIN the thread has change to 0.80 and it is impossible to find old threads. What about you ?















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Old 10-05-2016, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: S600 restoration in South France

Yikes............ Michael Ortmann in Germany might be your best bet for those, I've attached what I hope is his current list of parts.

Ortmann Parts List
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Old 10-10-2016, 01:44 AM
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Default Re: S600 restoration in South France

You should be able to EasyOut, drill, and retap the holes?

Regardless, some non-standard fixing are indeed still available.
Google is your friend if you can find out their configuration name, as I've been able to source a number of pre-JIS pitch bolts and machine screws from a variety of sources.

Neko
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Old 10-10-2016, 04:40 AM
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Default Re: S600 restoration in South France

Hi Bernard,

Here is what happen to me some years ago,




That's why, to avoid new this problem, i decided to machining rollers with heavy duty steel material ( 110kgs).




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Old 10-10-2016, 05:09 PM
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Default Re: S600 restoration in South France

Those machined rollers are impressive, I wonder if they might make the rear end noise more pronounced?
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