MSchu

well...


here we are in the midst of a Vintage Honda (actually Japanese car)revolution that will be in full swing in a year or two, and I have to ask myself... why are folks screwing with perfectly good restorible cars by swapping and roding them to the point where they become unrecognizable travesties. While HOTROD'ing a Japanese car is perfect welcome and very fun(I have done so myself on occasions) I think having a vintage car in same or period clothing is the right way to go for many of these good cars. Does a CVCC with a k series swap really belong in the vintage forum?

discuss...

Jonathan_ED3

Concur. New bandwagon for everybody to jump on....

E-AT_me

i decided to do a B16a just for this reason.. granted, i've got an 86 Si but i did have the motor laying around. i'd do a ZC, but finding them is getting harder and most of them have issues. but, the b16a i don't think is too "modern" cause it was produced in what, 88 or 89? but whatever. i DO have period correct wheels, mugen CF-48's and black racing BR-R's.


btw, i think i'm planning on leaving my 91 Si stock.. not that it really matters in this discussion, but whateve!

cb07

Lol, in a couple years, JDM will be rice, and only the cool kids will drive pre-88 honda's with K series, H series, or B series motors.

NIKE SB'd

iTrader: (1)

Even better question, why would a K swapped CVCC NOT belong in a vintage forum? the car is still from the 70s. Besides who cares, people can and will do whatever they want. I say encourage them, don't hate. If you want to swap your car and you LOVE it, right on! If you want to restore it and keep it stock, hell yea! As long as you are doing something you enjoy then I don't give a ****. As far as I see I don't think they are gonna make a "K swapped CVCCs" forum anytime soon, so yes IMO that would DEFINATELY belong here.

MSchu

thats a nutty response

E-AT_me

he's not talking about if it would be allowed in this forum, he's just saying that it would be nice for someone to keep the car "period correct". like under the hood of a civic 1200, would be a 1200cc motor with dual sidedrafts and stuff. i agree, i enjoy using stuff from the same period the car was made. usually it ends up being cleaner, anyways. i wish i were doing a ZC in my hatch, but like i said, i already had the B16a. and besides, honda did drop in a few b16a's in some 85-87 CRX's for testing purposes. so i've heard.

but i do agree. granted it's cool to have that K series powered whatever, but sometimes, original is awesome.. like my friends 85 prelude. he's keeping it all prelude and modding it like it was 1985.

86si

its a matter of ones opinion. if u want your car original thats cool if want want it modded thats cool too. i love original cars but i also love horsepower that is why i went with a b18c in my build.

does this mean my car doesn't belong here? yes it might take away from what the car was but to me its what makes the car so much fun to drive

doublethink

Make use of the technology available to you at any given time.

Nothing wrong with a complete "historically accurate" resto as well.

I would be very happy if this section developed into a really nice mix of both.

That would really be nice and would make everyone happy.

Plus, you've never seen a Nova or a Chevelle with an engine transplant?

Come on now.

NIKE SB'd

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MSchu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thats a nutty response</TD></TR></TABLE>

How so? It makes perfect sense to me, and the thoughts seem to be shared by others as well.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by E-AT_me &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">he's not talking about if it would be allowed in this forum</TD></TR></TABLE>

Then why did he say this?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MSchu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Does a CVCC with a k series swap really belong in the vintage forum?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Seems to me like that was exactly what he meant.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 86si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> its a matter of ones opinion. if u want your car original thats cool if want want it modded thats cool too. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I totally agree

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NIKE SB’d &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you want to swap your car and you LOVE it, right on! If you want to restore it and keep it stock, hell yea! As long as you are doing something you enjoy then I don't give a ****. </TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by doublethink &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Make use of the technology available to you at any given time.

Nothing wrong with a complete "historically accurate" resto as well.

I would be very happy if this section developed into a really nice mix of both.

That would really be nice and would make everyone happy.

Plus, you've never seen a Nova or a Chevelle with an engine transplant?

Come on now. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Again I TOTALLY agree. So why is my response so nutty!? lol

djmota

all you have to do is look at the vintage aircooled vw scene to see the future of hondas. some will love a stock restoration others will go nuts with mods. the vw scene started with rodding, then porgressed to restoration and different mixes of each. different strokes for different folks.

86si

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by djmota &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> different strokes for different folks. </TD></TR></TABLE>
well said

SuperTwinz

I'm putting a 98 JDM ITR swap in my JDM E-AT. E-AT ME. I'm even converting it into hydro. I don't care what people think.

NIKE SB'd

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SuperTwinz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm putting a 98 JDM ITR swap in my JDM E-AT. E-AT ME. I'm even converting it into hydro. I don't care what people think.


</TD></TR></TABLE>

John your car is already the **** EC works mirrors? God I love it.

E-AT_me

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SuperTwinz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm putting a 98 JDM ITR swap in my JDM E-AT. E-AT ME. I'm even converting it into hydro. I don't care what people think.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

should be pimp.. but why you using my screen name? hahahaa. yeah, your car is the bomb. compared to that, mine is just another beater.

rotten

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by E-AT_me &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

should be pimp.. but why you using my screen name? hahahaa. yeah, your car is the bomb. compared to that, mine is just another beater.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Issue is though that an 86 Civic Si isn't a vintage car, so its not really what he's talking about.

They are old cars, but they aren't so vintage as to be sacrilege to hack up.

My opinion: if the car is a basketcase, go ahead and rod it. If it is restorable, restore it to original specs.

I've got a N600 and a Z600. The Z600 is in great condition, it will be restored to original condition.

The N600 isn't in great shape. We'll retain the stock drivetrain, but the shocks and springs will be swapped, might use aftermarket steering wheel, later generation seats. Basically we're just going to make it a nice, more or less period correct cruiser, something that if we were in the early 70s we may have done to the car.

-k

SuperTwinz

I think my car would be more like a classic Honda.

E-AT_me

definately pre 88 hondas are classic to me. the rarity alone is one reason. ESPECIALLY Si's.

badboyr66

Hmm well I can agree I like seen older "vintage" hondas dose both OEM and modded. I myself have done the best I can with my EF to make it as stock as possible. Granted it is not a vintage Honda, but I like the fact it gets great mileage and the only people that make fun of me for rocking the dual point, are people with newer modded hondas.


But the laughing usually stops when they see how clean it is.

But to each their own

But do these older cars with newer motors deserve to be in the vintage area? I think so.

People have their own reasons for swapping in something newer into a engine bay. Many just like the idea of newer running gear with older style..so be it. I myself can appreciate both though

Jack ffr1846

You guys with 1st gen CRX/3rd gen civics who have put B series motors in.....How difficult/easy was the swap?

Are mix/match Hasport mounts required or is it possible to do somewhat of a mix/match like a D16 into a CRX? Also with Axles....if you start with the stubs from the CRX and use the mid axle and tranny ends from a B series, can this frankenstein method work ok?

I'm asking because that's my plan and I have all the parts just waiting for the race season to end.

I'll also add that I am not at all worried about wiring....I plan to take an entire harness out of the donor car with the B16.

(btw.....lots of familiar screen names here :D)

jack


Modified by Jack ffr1846 at 4:18 AM 9/6/2007

Todd00

Part of what made the pre-88 Hondas cool was the technology they had at the time. While a B16 86 Civic Si might be sweet to some, I see B16's all the damn time and in pretty much everything. If you're going with a B16 swap, why not use the vastly superior 88-91 Civic chassis?

Now, same 86 Si with OEM motor and a vintage Mugen header, cam and motor rebuild is much more cool to me. You just don't see that done very often and you're using technology that was available at the time. With the original technology you tend to appreciate what those cars were about, and how good of a job Honda did building them 20 years ago.

Who cares if a B16 is a faster motor. Those cars weren't meant to be fast, and the OEM motor fixed up is still pretty quick. Now, a period ZC swap is still ok to me, because it was period-correct and they rolled off the assembly line like that in Japan.

Let's also not forget that sticking a B or K adds a lot of extra weight to the nose.

JamesS

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by badboyr66 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But do these older cars with newer motors deserve to be in the vintage area? I think so.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

What if the motor is non-honda? ...or the drivetrain different than factory? For instance: an N600 with a hayabusa motor mounted in the back and totally sleeper, that is until it revs on you at the stop light.

badboyr66

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JamesS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What if the motor is non-honda? ...or the drivetrain different than factory? For instance: an N600 with a hayabusa motor mounted in the back and totally sleeper, that is until it revs on you at the stop light.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well with anything the real question is how far down the rabbit hole you wanna go? Example...

We put a D16 into a X19 once.... every Fiat owner came out of the bushes either wanting to do the swap or bashing us for doing the swap. Either way everyone still saw the car as a Fiat... or as we called it... the "Fonda"

Sure there will be some gray area here, but more people will go off what they see... if it looks like a honda... must be a honda.. ect ect

extra cam needed

I think that's a great question. We also have to take into account that everyone don't have the patience and/or resources to "restore" a classic or vintage vehicle to it's original state, they might not live in an area where they have access to the parts needed to "restore" the vehicle. I put "restore" in paratheses because there are different levels of restoration and different meanings of restoration also. I love to see vintage/classic cars still driving around stock and modified, plus as long as they can give useful info on the particular car you gots to love it.

E-AT_me

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Part of what made the pre-88 Hondas cool was the technology they had at the time. While a B16 86 Civic Si might be sweet to some, I see B16's all the damn time and in pretty much everything. If you're going with a B16 swap, why not use the vastly superior 88-91 Civic chassis?

Now, same 86 Si with OEM motor and a vintage Mugen header, cam and motor rebuild is much more cool to me. You just don't see that done very often and you're using technology that was available at the time. With the original technology you tend to appreciate what those cars were about, and how good of a job Honda did building them 20 years ago.

Who cares if a B16 is a faster motor. Those cars weren't meant to be fast, and the OEM motor fixed up is still pretty quick. Now, a period ZC swap is still ok to me, because it was period-correct and they rolled off the assembly line like that in Japan.

Let's also not forget that sticking a B or K adds a lot of extra weight to the nose. </TD></TR></TABLE>

now, you're hitting home with this one. the whole reason i'm doing the swap is because the car was my dads' car, and he wanted to do the swap when he had it. this was before hasport made mounts. since i have it, i'm doing the swap. i'd like to do a ZC, but honestly, it's not THAT MUCH heavier or harder to do a B. and maybe where you live there are B's all over the place, but not out here. not to mention, if i TRIED to get the power out of my EW of a stock B, the car would be down-right unreliable. and i like to enjoy driving my cars. not hoping it starts and doesn't break. i understand your reasoning, but you've gotta understand mine. my whole problem with B swaps is everyone usually just "hacks" one together and it ends up looking like poop. i figure if i'm going to take the time to do the swap, i might as well make it look factory, too. y'know? it just doesn't make sense to throw it in there as quickly as possible.

oh yeah, i also have an EF but i don't want to swap it. it's fine with the D16a6 right now.

oh yeah, and honda did have b16a's in 87 so it IS using the technology they had in the time period. they just didn't finalize for production.