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I'm curious why you said KPro was a no-go for the DBW equipped version of this car. I see many CL7's here in the states run KPro and swap to the larger J37 throttle body, which is also DBW, and be able to tune no problem.
I'm curious why you said KPro was a no-go for the DBW equipped version of this car. I see many CL7's here in the states run KPro and swap to the larger J37 throttle body, which is also DBW, and be able to tune no problem.
Have to say all of the conclusion of it being a no go was based on conjecture on my part as nobody has actually tried to hook Kpro up to an EV1.
It is partly to do with stupid regulations over here, partly to do with messing with VSA. The car uses a PNF ECU but a PNF-G11 which is rather unconventional. Having looked at wiring diagrams, the VSA and cruise functions are governed by the ECU much like the TSX, and a dual ECU setup might work in theory.
Talked to Chasebays about fabbing up a harness, they thought VSA would be affected by the splitting of functions between two different ECU's (i.e) the VSA not having control over ignition timing as this would be regulated by the KPro'd secondary unit.
Couple this with the fact that 2012 changes to the annual UK roadworthiness testing requires OEM stability control to be at least seen as functioning, then things could get a little complicated, especially if there are lit or incorrectly functioning indicators in the cluster (=fail!)
Removal of such systems is allowed, but according to the regulations, every trace of the system must be confirmed as being removed and disabled. As the VSA seems to permeate so many other systems in the car it is quite an undertaking. Not impossible, but a big job for your average weekend modder.
There are also standalone units that can control DBW these days, but again the cost of such a unit places them out of the reach of most people.
Took the easy way out myself, cable TB FTW!
Last edited by E V Roller; 08-18-2015 at 09:38 AM.
Reason: Details...
Hmmn! Got the dreaded creaky suspension related issue on the drivers side (passenger side in the US)
No amount of messing with components can replicate it when the car is up on axle stands, but body roll on a tight left turn brings it out. Sort of a hollow and slightly metallic knocking/creaking like someone tapping on a resonant section of the suspension.
Replaced the sway bar end links with heavy duty numbers as a first measure, still learning all this stuff so started small.
Upper strut mounts seem to be within specified torque specs, planning to fit RCA's A.S.A.P. but the ball joint on that side seems to be pretty sound.
Tiny tear in the compliance bush on the side that the noise is coming from, but seems too small to be the cause of the creak.
Maybe it is a bush or ball joint, hoping that it is not CV joint or rack related, but surely that would be more consistent in producing the noise.
Would fit some new uprated drive shafts but the only ones over here are for the EP3R which has 36mm shafts and a 28 spline union with the hub. My car i believe is like the EP3 Si and has 32mm shafts and a 26 spline termination, and postage from the US is big money!
Also found my primary o2 sensor has the same part number as the Si, so while the UK EP3R is stuck with narrow band, my car that nobody tunes has wideband as standard. Mad.
Guess it will need a PRB ECU for KPro if i want an easy upgrade to 6 speed...
Looking at costs it would be easier to do a 5 stud swap with EP3R knuckles, then i can use UK EP3 drive shafts.
Would ideally run some DC5R aluminium control arms with caster increase bushes and perhaps a set of Enkei Tenjins 17x8 ET35 rear and 17X9 ET45 (If i am correct? sitting at ET40 with the DC5 lca's) up front.
Picked up a bargain set of 16" wheels for winter duties:
Offered as an HFP option on the preface EP in the US i believe. Not too common here in the UK and not much wrong with these apart from a lot of dirt:
A few minutes work on one section produced this:
Should tidy up nicely with some new centre caps added. Can then try polishing up the lips of the 17's when they are off the car over winter
EDIT: Looks like i was wrong about this design being offered as the HFP option on the preface EP3. They are very like the optional rims for the Fit/Jazz, only with a +45 offset and in silver rather than grey.
Last edited by E V Roller; 08-14-2015 at 10:52 PM.
Got a couple of them to a sort of "plateau" of clean. More could be done but to me they are reasonably acceptable in general appearance.
A quick shot with part of an untouched rim on the left (also part of the stupid busted lens cover which does not open fully without some help )
The aforementioned scratches and chips are quite visible without so much dirt to disguise them. There is also some pretty heavy corrosion behind the spokes. Another thing that could do with attention is the foam and gum remaining from unsympathetic wheel weight placement/removal.
On the other hand the barrels in general came up pretty well:
As above, not entirely terrible:
You can see the wheel weight crud through the spokes on the right hand wheel.
Not sure about the next steps, the corrosion will have to wait. Some fallout remover may shift some more of the speckles, but none in the armoury at the mo
May just seal them well and run on them for this winter and see what the budget is like for some DIY refurbing next summer.
That was a saga! Considering i had barely jacked up a car just over a year ago, pretty pleased with progress.
Got on with the RCA install, nearly failed at the first hurdle though as trying to crack the spindle nuts on the drive shaft by hand was getting nowhere.
So i hired one o deese for the day!
About a minute after employing it, the job was back on track!
The ABS sensor was being a turd about being removed from the knuckle so i disconnected the plug at the inboard end.
A vice would have been useful, but being without one, an old rim with the same PCD served to steady the knuckle while tho old ball joint was pressed out:
In with the new:
A quick tidy up with the Dremel:
And all back together:
The second side was more of a pain.
The problems began when it came to removing the ball joint nut. It was fused to both the LCA and the ball joint thread and rounded off after a few attempts at removal
In the end i cut it off, but it was so stubborn i had to grind the nut back to a mere disc and then forcibly chisel that off the LCA!
Here lieth the remains:
That left this to work with:
After several hours of trying with both guile and brute force to shift it i gave up. Left it soaking in penetrating oil for the night and tried again in the morning.
The result was this:
Got mad then, and cut the damn thing in half to remove the knuckle. Drilled into the stub...
...Opened it out with the Dremel:
And it still refused to budge. Borrowed some heat from the guy building a house next door and still no joy.
In the end the C clamp from the ball joint kit and a breaker bar freed the little *****:
Now came another issue. My stretched 205 45 tires were close to the limit and discovered one had a nail in it.
Had some 225 45 Hankooks ready to go on for next spring as i wanted some more contact patch.
Had anticipated some issues getting them to fit with 7.5J ET35 wheels, but got thrown in at the deep end trying to fit them without the luxury of time to prepare.
Did some ghetto arch tucking at the rear with a hair dryer, padded hammer, and to try and prevent distorting the outer panel, a block of wood shrouded in microfibre:
Got them sitting fairly flush, and used the camber plates at the front to give a little more clearance at that end. Was relatively happy with the results:
Off to the alignment place, only to find that they ran out of adjustment on the tie rods before correcting the toe
Returned the camber to neutral up front, but now it rubs over speed humps
Rather than buying shortened tie rods i will be getting some camber bolts, but yet another alignment will be needed, so yea, not exactly over the moon right now!
Looking good. Got to love project that take their time like such. Definitely tests my patience but so rewarding in the end.
Thanks man!
It's always lack of cash holding things back. Totally agree on testing patience but always best to keep something in the bank just in case.
Will have to get these camber bolts bought and fitted and a bit more arch work at the rear, then hopefully these tires will fit...
Forgot to mention too, the two replacement 5 spoke wheels are the same size/fitment but differ slightly in having a marginally deeper dish.
Hard to tell but the innermost step of the lip on the right hand wheel is a tiny bit deeper:
So those are on the back, a staggered looking square setup, weird eh?
Set the camber plates back to central and sailed through the alignment.
Still need to address the issue of camber at the front, so going to get some bolts in when possible. Guess another alignment will be needed then *sigh*
Pretty much a re-hash of a post i made in the introductions section, but it sets the scene i guess...
Been a 7th gen hatch owner for about 3 years, not a cool kid 3 door though, an old man 5 door (we all hate practicality, so uncool right?)
The tow hook and sticker mod crew in the UK despise the 5 door, but that is fine by me. Most of the UK 7th gen Civics apart from the Type R run D16 motors, but mine came with a K20A3 so it has a little more go, and potential for upgrades
Wanted to upgrade this car, but unfortunately it came with a DBW throttle and VSA setup very like the CL9.
After trying to find ways of getting mappable engine management without compromising the cars features i basically gave up, there was not a way to do it without pretty much changing everything.
The earlier models did not have the DBW system, but looked even more like crap than the facelifted version.
However, it turns out that during the revisions, a few face lift cars were built with the old running gear and so i got me one!
Old and new (which is older, wth?!)
Needed rid of those dinky 15" wheels, and being on a tight budget plumped for some cheapo Meister S1R reps:
As you may know, our UK climate is prone to the odd shower of rain now and again
This in mind, i got an RSX wiper switch off US ebay and after messing with a 7th gen in the local scrap yard, found a way to get to the all important X connector to wire it in.
Did make a half assed guide too, seen as there don't seem to be many 7th gen specific guides about on the net.
Wasn't really intending to do the work myself, but glad to have taken the plunge. Can be pretty challenging, but great if it goes right in the end.
Car feels way better on 225 45's, it may stay like this until the winter wheels go on, despite rubbing now and again.
Next moves likely to be camber bolts, and rear arch roll for fitment/setup. Caster increase bushes to finish up the front end, and a sturdier sway bar to begin upgrading at the rear.
Quite amusing how these wagons are so underestimated by the majority of the populous over here.
Most of them are 1.4 or 1.6 D series or 1.7 Isuzu diesel powered, and seen rolling on 14/15" stockies piloted by the grey hair brigade 10mph below the speed limit.
Just adds to the surprise of the wannabees when they encounter one with even a washed up K20A3 and some basic handling mods.
Hammered some clown in his riced out Imprezza the other evening. Sitting on my tail with illegal HID's and unnecessary driving lamps blazing. Knew he would whoop me on the straight, but came to a roundabout and went from trading paint to a 5 car length gap in the blink of an eye.
Not a mark of the machines involved compared to other factors perhaps, but sleepers are fun!
Just whack another pic up when clean:
And a comparison between the unloved purchase a year ago and now:
Looking at perhaps importing a K24A1 block and making a frank style motor, as it seems spreading the cost might be more affordable than trying to buy a full VTEC K24 off the shelf.
No idea if a noob with a torque wrench and some plastigauge could really succeed in such a venture...
Been a while and the car is a bit grimy, but got the winters on today:
The alloys themselves could do with more work both in terms of cleaning and sealing, but with the arrival of a cold snap in the weather it is a relief to get them on.
Got a camber gauge too, so in the event of further coats of sealant on the wheels some of the rear camber may be reduced at the same time.
Forgot to mention, downloaded specific wiring diagrams for the non VSA EV1 which revealed it to be identical to the EP3 Si.
This makes knowing how to proceed with any motor upgrades much easier as information regarding the Si also applies to my car, the only difference being RHD.
Been up to various things, but still working on the Civic so shall attempt to bring you up to speed...
The poor old motor had not seen a wash mitt for the entire winter period, so some pics from earlier in the year of when she finally got an exterior spruce up:
The last two show the usual facelift 5 door corrosion beginning under the chrome strip, plus there is much ingrained iron in the paintwork and a bunch of tar spots, but still nice to see the old so and so looking cleaner
Needed to resort to Wonder wheels to rid the alloys of grime as the rushed job of sealing them had not been sufficient. The better prepped job on the paint lasted out really well though which was a welcome surprise and a big help when driyng the car off. 1000P FTW!
Got a few shots of how things sit on the 8 spokes (Lens cover on the camera is dead, resulting in some blurry magikness)
Hatched a plan to refurb the salt damaged lacquer on the lips of the summer rims.
Previously, sanding had worked out with a decent result but had removed the machined grooves that helped the clear coat adhere.
Without much time to play with, having bare alloy lips to care for would likely be too much hassle to keep on top of, so fresh lacquer was the plan.
This left the option of trying to strip the lips without harming the painted spokes. Tough call, as i'm told even the fumes from some paint strippers can be enough to cause damage.
Figured masking tape would likely absorb the stripper and act as a poultice but in the end i had a brainwave.
Ordered some liquid latex and painted that on to the spokes:
Hoped it would prevent the paint stripper attacking the wrong parts, and it could be peeled off afterwards.
Needs some care in application, but it sort of worked!
Used the Dremel with metal polish to spot fix the patches of corroded alloy and mostly kept the machined grooves intact.
Test result:
Despite initial success, time (as always) was running out, needed to get the 17's back on and the winters into the garage. So unfortunately the refurb will have to wait until next winter.
Not fixed the damage, but i gave them a couple of passes with M205 and a foam polishing ball. This reduced the dullness of the matte clear coat on the lips.
Pants picture but the nearer wheel has been polished, the further is untreated:
Adds some transparency and shine:
Birthday yesterday, and what does every 35 year old boy want as a gift? A JDM spec EP3 sway bar of course!! :D
Treated myself to a beast low profile jack recently, so no more platforms of slabs and planks:
Despite only 3 1/2 hours kip after work i decided to fit the sway, wasn't actually sure it would fit a 5 door but it was time to find out...
Much easier getting her in the air with the new jack:
Corrosion put paid to removing the end links conventionally, but in the end to stop it spinning i got some mole grips on the part between the boot and the mounting point on the control arm:
Old vs new:
Not the best pic, but first hand the difference is obvious as the original bar is about 15 or 16 mm, the new one is of course 22 mm.
Fits thus far:
New HD end links lined up:
Loaded up the suspension with the jack to torque them up and was a little dismayed to see that the new links were practically touching the control arm.
Tidied away and went for a quick test drive expecting to hear awful noises.
Oddly enough it seemed there were none, and the new sway has wrought massive improvements in the way the car feels to drive. Too tired to fully appreciate it, but it feels much more stable and directionally precise. I'm a happy chappy!
Been drooling over some of Todds caster plates to fit later in the year (there seems to be a run of them being made currently) but not sure if they will work on my struts.
In fact out of all the peeps who sell various styles of caster plates not one has responded to my emails grrr! Oh well!
05-28-2015, 02:21 PM
Re: 7th gen 5 door hatch project
