TOM J

I want to this test with shelf pistons first . Then we can go onto the customs. I am having a shop gather up all of these parts so it is not a fixed contest. I will set up a time when we get all of the parts. I would like to test at atlas testing labs or any other top notch testing lab. I am sure it will cost a few dollars but wii be fun to see.
I have a friend at Import Tuner and I wiil try to get him to do a write up at the same time. Tom Jung

Casey

iTrader: (5)

this should be interesting and hopefully completely unbiased

Trooper

I don't know **** about pistons, compared to Tom or Rocket, but I personally have had 2 sets or Arias pistons, and ordered my 3 set this morning. From my personal experiences and experiences of friends Arias pistons ROCK! My first set held up Extremely well to a dropped valve at 9500, all though it caused the valve to chew the **** out of the head the cylinders didn't suffer any major damage.

As far as customer service it is excellent, during my conversation this morning with Arias "school was in session" and i got off the phone with a headache from all of the knowledge that i obtained lol. Im don't have any thing against any of the other brands, i just haven't had any experiences with them. Arias

Rocket

I also have access to purpose built piston inspecting machines.

So if anybody interested in numbers I can get the numbers for you guys.

TOM J

Rocket are you bring the food and drinks?

Rocket

Maybe.

Catered event?

12secEG

In my own point of view for me I'm an all motor believer. I will vote JE Pistons 13.5 It works!!!

As Far As.....

CP, Arias, Wiesco, Ross, and a some JP they're good for low compressions like TURBO Cars!!!!


"GOT BOOST........HELL NO" Skunk

ALLMOTORJ

Piston shoot-out!

Tite!

TOM J

Hey get me all that info on your motor so I can tell you all you need to know

Miller Time!

im putting my money on ARIAS pistons... who wants to bet in the shoot out?

TOM J

Anthony you are tooo funny. Rocket is bringing the food and drinks. LOL

Miller Time!

Hey why not bet on the same pistons I have in my motor? Hopefully its gonna get me into the 10s... Its already propelled my car to 123mph trap speeds @ 11.40s RS spec of course... Arias pistons= Quality consistent product

Rocket

I am not sure if everyone understands that this will be a serious undetaking as the test results will have an big impact on the H-T and internet community's perceptions of quality and performance from the various piston manufacturers.

In order for the tests to be meaningful, I throw in some guidelines and objectives so Tom can review them.

Food and drinks will be provided courtesy of Rocket Motorsports.

BryanPendleton

I have not heard what kind of testing will be done.

Naturally you can perform your typically non-destructive testings, such as weighing, dimensional inspection, surface finishes, volume/density measuring.

You can check material harness at various locations. You can cut up a piston and make test specimen to gather material properties such as yield, ultimate tensile, fatigue properties, thermal coefficients of expansion. You could also build some test fixture to load the piston such that it simulates the stress when the piston changes direction at TDC, by holding onto the upper ring land and pulling through the wrist pin. These are tests that should yield unbiased data, which should give you a good indicator as to which piston should be the most durable and reliable, but as for which will deliever the most power, that is simply so subjective. The second you put any piston in a motor, you now have to factor in countless other variables that can effect the end out come. How do you minimize the number of variables?

vtecvoodoo

I think I have a set of JE`s and Ross.

Suprdave

I got an idea...why don't you get all the pistons in the same compression.

Drop them ina motor and dyno them...see what makes more.

Me and Omniman were talkin' about this last week. Someone down for some Hardcore parts swappin'?

Suprdave

vtecvoodoo

there would be so0o many variables, but that would be a cool test (and a shitload of work).

Suprdave

All the pistons would have to be the exact same dome displacement, etc...

Other than that, I don't see many variables...you will see firsthand which offer the best ringseal, etc...It would be a ****-ton of work tho.

Rocket

We are getting back to wishful thinking.

Who is going to build a motor for this test? If someone is, then I am sure we can find pistons to use.

A pistons company job is to provide its customer with a piston for the intended application. It's up to the engine builder/tuner to make it work. Many top engine builders choose certain pistons for certain reasons.

The propose accuracy test is to see if these piston companies deliver what is expected of them.

JDM2ndGen

i think this test is going to be a very informative and useful thread to everyone on H-T ...i dont know why we didnt do this test sooner ...the result may tune me away from purchasing my IB spec Wiescos ...

BryanPendleton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Suprdave &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All the pistons would have to be the exact same dome displacement, etc...

Other than that, I don't see many variables...you will see firsthand which offer the best ringseal, etc...It would be a ****-ton of work tho.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The "best" ringseal will occur once the rings are broken in and conformed to their new home. The second that happens, the next set of pistons and rings are screwed, without a honing job, at which case you have introduced a variable. Aside from durability and strength, the difference in power is going to probably primarily come from how well the piston top promotes burn effeciency, ring seal, and piston heat transfer. Burn effeciency will vary depending on cylinder head combustion chamber work too, so do you work on a stock head? Controlling the ring seal is going to be extremely difficult. You cannot use different motors due to tolerance stackup, cylinder bore geometry differences, and the countless other variables introduced. Using the same motor is the only option I see, and even then you will not give every piston a level playing field, because cylinder bores will needing honing after each test, and then you run the risk of changed cylinder bore geometry.

I figure you test the dimension, strength and fatigue issues and let the manufacturers and builders argue over which piston shapes promote effecient combustion.

ALLMOTORJ

Well, as an engine builder, I believe in a fast break in. First 500 miles or less to get a good ring seal. The engine should be brought up to temp and taken to the dyno or the track and ran at full throttle. (w/ cool down periods of course.) At full throttle the rings get pushed up against the cylinder walls to create good ring seal. In gear deceleration to keep rings lubed.

here's my regiment:
Startup,
warm up 15mins............. 1st oil change (gets prelube out)
warm up 10miles............ 2nd oil change (moderate driving)
warm up 25miles............ 3rd oil change (A few full throttle passes)
warm up 100miles.......... 4th oil change (Alot of full throttle passes)
warm up 200miles.......... 5th oil change (50-80 mph on the freeway)

by then the rings should be well seated (for this test at least).


If CP/TOM J are intrested, I will be resleeving/boring two identical 99 spec H22a blocks (Un-Bias testing) up to 90mm. RS Machines or GE?


Modified by 4gotpasswordAGAIN at 11:41 AM 3/24/2004

mahalo motorsports

what kind of piston rings?

earl

Any engine builder would tell you that you cannot just swap multiple brands of pistons in and out of a dyno motor and get a fair comparison. Controlling piston to wall clearance alone would be a nightmare, not to mention things like determining when the rings are seated, ring gaps, cylinder wall finish, exact compression ratios, etc. Just too many variables to get concrete, believable results.

b19coupe

Gotta luv Honda-Tech. You get many of the best manufacturers giving you input on their products, and informative tests. Hope this is a completely objective test-it's tough to get unbiased results these days.