gnarlycs

What I'm trying to say is everyone in this community is always talking about HP. I don't understand this because it's torque you should be wanting, not horsepower. We drive little sport cars that are meant to be sporty. In order to achieve that you need lots of low-end torque. So, I don't know why people brag about horsepower and leave out torque.

I'm seeing lots of people set goals for a certain amount of horsepower. When they should be setting goals for a certain about of torque.

I'm doing a bad job at trying to explain what I mean, but I hope everyone gets it.

EDIT: Also, when I see those builds with lots of horsepower, they never have complimentary torque. It makes no sense to me, how in the world do you (why in the world would you want this anyways) get 300 horsepower and only 150-200 lb-ft of torque?

more low end torque = more of a sporty feeling

Natural Aspirations

It's directionally proportionate to the size of your e-****.

gnarlycs

Actually if anyone knew anything about the relationship to horsepower and torque they would understand. Horsepower is basically the top speed if I put it in the most simplest terms. But how often do you ACTUALLY go top speed? Torque is the turning force that spins your wheels. I would much rather have a lot of turning force and have a top speed of 150 MPH than half that amount of turning force to go 180 MPH.

rich7777

GagnarTheUnruly

iTrader: (3)

Horsepower describes the power needed to accelerate the mass of the car at a given speed. It is no more or less a direct measure of the ability of an engine to accelerate the car -- it's simply put in slightly different terms. In fact, peak horsepower is usually a far more reliable metric of the ability of an engine to accelerate the car than peak torque, because it accounts for gearing.

Natural Aspirations

That is why we use a transmission....

Horsepower is torque at a specified RPM.

They are one and the same, when geared correctly one is as good as the other.

You remind me of a freshmen ME major who may just be STARTING to grasp the relationship between the two. Stick around an read a bit before trying to pick a fight, after all your quite obviously trying to prove your superior knowledge but are missing the forest for the trees.

EG1834

You do want torque, and you want as much as you can, but more importantly is where.

If you want a "sporty feel" for a daily driver and you're not worried about winning races, then you would probably want to make torque in the lower RPM.

On the other hand, if you want to win races you will want to make torque higher in the RPM where RPM acts as a multiplier to make horsepower.

It just depends on what you want to use the car for.

lostforawhile

horsepower and torque are not the same thing, torque is twisting force, one of the issues with Honda stuff is it's lacking torque, you can have a lot of horsepower but you have to rev the crap out of the motor to reach peak torque, You want your torque in the lower end,this is what moves you and gets you going, once the car is already in motion horsepower isn't as important,this is why you can maintain a set speed with just a few horsepower. You can change the torque curve with cams or with forced induction, bigger displacement engines generally also generate more torque, there are a lot of factors involved, but generally the more low end torque you have the better a driver you will have.

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

cuz htis is not a v8 forum

lostforawhile

what does that have to do with it? people still want torque and horsepower

JDogg

It comes down to gearings. With alot of rpms, you can create your torque with gearing.

If you use a dynapack dyno you can see this. That dyno will show you the actual torque applied to the tires.

a 500hp/350tq civic doing a run in 4th gear, which tops out at around 130mph will produce the same torque at the hub as a 500hp/500tq viper does on a 3rd gear pull.. which also tops out at 130mph.. which car do you think will be faster?

It was a long time ago when we actually did that comparison, but I want to say both were right at 1800ft/lbs at the tires

mafia

As long as your car is light and you have decent torque. Your good to go.

EG1834

Horsepower is a function of torque. Torque is basically "work" and horsepower is the "rate of work". You want a high "rate of work" if your concern is acceleration.

DDTECH

There's a reason these cars rev so high.... let that one simmer for a second.

gnarlycs

Yes and that is what stumps me! F1 cars rev up to 18k and they create a ton of torque from just that. Why don't our cars create torque (somewhat) similar to that?

GhostAccord

Over square, Under square and square! Check out the differences between them and you may start to see why F1 engines and sport bike engines create tq like they do!

K7-1Ktrevor

hp = tq x rpm /5252.

but really how much low end tq can a fwd 2000lb car put down?

gnarlycs

I've heard about that before. Never really looked into it though, but from what I remember, don't engines with long strokes create more torque?

EG1834

How much peak torque do you think they are making?

PURPLERANGER

its the one of the only car related word that ricers/ and trendy high schoolers know that relate to cars besides camber and JDM

ivan93egreppin210

Even though I don't make over 200 horsepower, I have so much torque by 5000 rpm that the car feels like it always has power. There is no waiting to get into higher rpm to feel power it's just instant from 2000 rpm up. My buddy has a built b20 making more horsepower but alot less torque and it is really not even close. i make more torqe at 3000 rpm than he has in his build. This motor is 97mm stroke by 86mm bore. I think big stroke is key to making low end tq on our motors.

GhostAccord

It's not that they create more tq necessarily. It's just that they hit peak in the lower rpm ranges. Also an under square (long stroke - smaller bore) engines piston speeds are higher, than those of an over square (large bore - short stroke) engine. That kind of limits them to how far high you can rev them. Without extensive modifications that is. Even still that is a limitation and also a reason for the lower RPM ranges.

I have a 71' 500 big block in stock form it is 109.2mm bore x 109.3mm stroke. Pretty much a perfectly square motor. It is rated for 365hp @ 4400 RPM and 535 lb·ft of tq @ 2800 RPM. Is that more of what you are looking for? IMO You would be hard pressed to find that type of power in an under square 4 cylinder engine.

ivan93egreppin210

k20 is 86x86 but makes less tq on average than a k24 (97x87)

EG1834

The displacements might have something to do with that...

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

b16a and b16b is a good example

both are 1.6 but b16b is a 1.8l type r block with b16a rotating assembly

OP did you come from domestic world?

you understand that small displacement cars make power by means of high rmps.

f1 cars are also not 4 bangers. it seems you dont understand the concept yourself yet.
if our cars like domestic v8s had only 5000 redline then our torque numbers would be higher than hp.
horsepower is torque multiplied by rpm...
rotation per minute also creates power per minute more rotation more power to put it in simple words.