z6htch

Hey everyone,

I had a few questions about Crower cams that i could not find a definite answer to anywhere else. I was thinking of getting the crower stage 1 cams for my jdm b18b but i dont wanna be disappointed with performance when the stage 2 is the same cost. The only downfall about stage 2 is that some say it requires new valve springs, and some say you dont as long as you do not exceed stock redline which i would keep the same.

So can you run stage 2 on stock springs, with stock redline? I do not want to replace springs right now, but if I can get the stage 2 with stock springs id rather do that then stage 1. I just want a solid answer. Does anyone have experience with either?

Thanks

vtec8200

I have ran the crane 101-012 on stock valvetrain, wich are similar to the crower 402 if you check the specs. I bought the engine it had 3 summers of abuse. The person who ran them first ran them on a chipped ecu with a basemap and he said he revved it very often to and past 8000 rpms (why??). When I bought the engine I had the ecu street tuned and the rev limiter set to 7350 rpms and ran them hard all summer, going to the 1.8th mile track every week, 2-3 times a week and some lapping events. On the quarter mile I ran 14.3 at 96mph in a 92 ls with a 2.4 0-60ft so they were very good, I loved them. I sold the setup and I know it still runs today.
Was I lucky? maybe. the crower 401 are labelled as "stock replacement" so you might be disapointed.
I'd run the 402 and have the head checked every now and them.

vtec8200

btw from what i've seen in the past few years, half of the people who run 403 run with oem springs and retainers, keeping the stock rev limit, else people just run 404 when they have the aftermarket valvetrain.

z6htch

Thanks for all the info and the reply. The 62402's are referred to as stage 1 and the 62403's are referred to as stage 2, just so there is no confusion. Can anyone else back this up that you can run stock valve springs on crower stage 2 cams on an ls motor? I'm also purchasing a blox manifold and 68mm tb to go along with the cams, Im just not sure what stage! I plan on getting it tuned after I get both finished.

vtec8200

https://honda-tech.com/forums/acura-integra-6/crower-403-question-2516663/

https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/crower-403s-1189544/

https://honda-tech.com/forums/acura-integra-6/crower-403-cams-1339718/

The people who run 403s on stock valvetrain seem to not be having issues, but alot of people recommend against it. Based on that I think you will be fine with the 402s on the stock valvetrain, keeping the stock rev limit (unless the valvetrain has high mileage), while you save for aftermarket springs and retainers.. Make sure you have a good flowing header and exhaust before you buy that blox manifold and tb, cams like these like to breath out.

gsrtom

Well it depends how much u want to mod ur car. U didnt list ur existing mods so i assume u have the typical bolt-ons atleast. If u run 403's u will need a chiped ecu or if u run a stock ecu u will have idle issues i believe , plus u wont get the most out of the cam anyways and even less since ur trying to avoid upgrading ur valve train .So now u cant safely rev past ur redline and any gains u might of had would be lost. Kinda get where im coming from , 402's are good if u dont want to spend or plan on spending alot of money now or down the road. If u have a daily driver with just bolt-ons dont want to really mess with the head or bottom end get the 402's . 403's going to need a good tune and a better valvetrain to get more bang 4 ur buck .

Nikos

it is possible to design a cam to work really good on stock springs but with "stage 2" cams of any brand you end up with unstable valvemotion earlier in the redline.

So the camshaft is giving commands to a spring that cannot keep up in the upper range of RPM. For marketing and economics reasons the spring is separated from the cam, but they go together.

So what you will see at high RPM is your valves opening and closing with no HP gains.. ruther a flat to going down line.

Actually to be 100% correct, every cam has a design spring and an actual spring that is not always 100% close to spec. But its close enough. Unless you have the money to call for the exact spring the designer calls for. So now at peak power, your cam has that much duration and lift with the right spring translating that motion to the valves. You will not get any of that. In all motor tuning gains are limited to a few things. I understand you dont want to mess with springs too, maybe you need to find the best stage 1 cam that makes only 5whp less than a stage 2 cam with stock valvettrain.

Good luck

K7-1Ktrevor

403's kick ***. I loved mine on my stock bottom end ls and b20. I ran 12.7 with 403s in my crx btw.

jdmb18b1flip

Can.you use stock cam gears o. the.crower 403 or.do you need to have adjustable.cam.gears

mark@silbernage

I wouldn't touch a cam that deviates that far from stock without adjustable gears, and, more importantly - dial them in. That means with a dial micrometer, etc.. I emphasize the dial indicator because to a lot of folks (apparently, from their posts) degreeing cams simply means adjusting the gears to a particular +- setting on the cam gears. That is NOT degreeing the cams. You want to do an accurate job of setting the cam opening and closing to the cam manufacturer's specs on a degree wheel, and then if you change from that value do it on the dyno with a reputable tuner.

Also, when you degree, it would be wise to check for the limits (how far you can go +- on the gears) before you encounter either P2V or V2V problems.

If you don't find the safe range mechanically (and safely), you can easily pass the safe limit and damage your engine.

Shooting in the dark on a dyno is dangerous.

Don't know if you need this info, so I'm just putting it out there to confirm.

Mark

jdmb18b1flip

THANKS THAT HELPS,, AND JUST WONDERING WHAT WOULD BE A SUTTABLE VALVEA ND RETAINER SET THAT I COULD RUN WITH MY 403 STAGE 2 CROWER ALL MOTOR CAMS DOES IT HAVE TO BE A CROWER OR COULD IT BE ANOTHER BRAND