Trouble Shooting JDM B18C running rough/ignition timing off
#1
Trouble Shooting JDM B18C running rough/ignition timing off
Alright so I'm not sure this is the right section but figured would give this a go as desperate times call for desperate measures.
Background
So my teammates and I have a road racing Integra which started life out as a GSR but came to us with a B18B in it (anyone's guess as to why). Eventually we managed to destroy that motor after 10 races or so and decided we would pull out all the stops and replace it with a B18C. We replaced the head gasket, head bolts, timing belt, water pump etc just trying to make it as reliable as possible. It was great for 2 races but earlier this year it puked oil into the catch can so bad that it over flowed while on the track. Needless to say leak down test failed miserably. We pulled the head, had the valves redone be a reputable machine shop (they told us only .005" was taken off the head) and a put in a new set of rings. After putting it all back together it is idling/running rough and we cannot figure out why.
Symptoms
- Rough Idle
- Appears to be running rich (all 4 plugs are dark as can be even after a few minutes of running)
- Ignition timing appears to be very far advanced at idle (Marks on the pulley are way to the right of the mark on the cover)
- Not throwing any CEL's
What we have checked/Replaced
- Timing has been checked and rechecked at least 5 times now. At first we thought it kept coming up as off half a tooth but at least by eyesight it doesn't appear to be anymore
- Valve clearance more than once
- MAP sensor has been swapped
- IACV sensor has been swapped
- O2 Sensor has been swapped
- Engine water temp sensor swapped
- Compression is 260 across all 4 cylinders
- Leakdown is 1% or less on all 4 cylinders
- Plug wires swapped
- New distributor
- New plugs
It seems to run better from a dead cold start and get worse as it warms up. We're at a loss as to what we can check next. Tonight we were checking the VTEC system thinking maybe it's stuck on but everything seemed to be fine unless the ECU is signaling for it as soon as the car warms up. Does anyone have any ideas as to what this could possibly be?
Background
So my teammates and I have a road racing Integra which started life out as a GSR but came to us with a B18B in it (anyone's guess as to why). Eventually we managed to destroy that motor after 10 races or so and decided we would pull out all the stops and replace it with a B18C. We replaced the head gasket, head bolts, timing belt, water pump etc just trying to make it as reliable as possible. It was great for 2 races but earlier this year it puked oil into the catch can so bad that it over flowed while on the track. Needless to say leak down test failed miserably. We pulled the head, had the valves redone be a reputable machine shop (they told us only .005" was taken off the head) and a put in a new set of rings. After putting it all back together it is idling/running rough and we cannot figure out why.
Symptoms
- Rough Idle
- Appears to be running rich (all 4 plugs are dark as can be even after a few minutes of running)
- Ignition timing appears to be very far advanced at idle (Marks on the pulley are way to the right of the mark on the cover)
- Not throwing any CEL's
What we have checked/Replaced
- Timing has been checked and rechecked at least 5 times now. At first we thought it kept coming up as off half a tooth but at least by eyesight it doesn't appear to be anymore
- Valve clearance more than once
- MAP sensor has been swapped
- IACV sensor has been swapped
- O2 Sensor has been swapped
- Engine water temp sensor swapped
- Compression is 260 across all 4 cylinders
- Leakdown is 1% or less on all 4 cylinders
- Plug wires swapped
- New distributor
- New plugs
It seems to run better from a dead cold start and get worse as it warms up. We're at a loss as to what we can check next. Tonight we were checking the VTEC system thinking maybe it's stuck on but everything seemed to be fine unless the ECU is signaling for it as soon as the car warms up. Does anyone have any ideas as to what this could possibly be?
#2
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Trouble Shooting JDM B18C running rough/ignition timing off
What ECU are you using?
#4
Re: Trouble Shooting JDM B18C running rough/ignition timing off
Well since I hate finding 10 year old threads with no solutions I figure I would post what actually happened. So after nearly pulling our hair out trying to figure out what was going wrong and even tracking down another ecu it turns out that when we installed the intake cam gear apparently we pushed the key through the back of the gear and it fell into the cover. Once the bolt was on you couldn't tell the key wasn't in there. Obviously not a great predicament to be in. We were lucky enough it didn't come loose and cream everything but we were unlucky enough that it still ran to the point we were just trying to troubleshoot a bunch of other things.
#5
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Trouble Shooting JDM B18C running rough/ignition timing off
Well since I hate finding 10 year old threads with no solutions I figure I would post what actually happened. So after nearly pulling our hair out trying to figure out what was going wrong and even tracking down another ecu it turns out that when we installed the intake cam gear apparently we pushed the key through the back of the gear and it fell into the cover. Once the bolt was on you couldn't tell the key wasn't in there. Obviously not a great predicament to be in. We were lucky enough it didn't come loose and cream everything but we were unlucky enough that it still ran to the point we were just trying to troubleshoot a bunch of other things.
Thanks for updating the thread with what it was. Enjoy the engine now!
#6
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Trouble Shooting JDM B18C running rough/ignition timing off
You can always use the holes in the cams and cam rails lined up to check mechanical timing. I've seen quite a few cam aftermarket cam gears that have the timing marks in the wrong spot so it's always good to be 100% sure
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GsrSenal
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03-04-2002 09:23 AM