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Questions on headers and ignition before retune, input needed
I plan on re-tuning on a better fuel soon, and now that I have my TL, this setup can lean more toward track use. The original setup made 231/146, with very conservative timing, and I was pleased with it for a while.. then the desire for more crept up on me.
I was pondering re-tuning on the hondata coil on plug setup to help with the lack of spark in the top end, and adding a hood exit header now that I have the more reasonable ability and funds to track this car more, plus I have a spare hood that can be cut for this that otherwise is just sitting.
My question is, what are the benefits to a hood exit, as well as the downfalls. Is this going to be beneficial at the hopefully 250whp range? Or should I be sticking with a good rmf megaphone or something similar? I cant seem to find much info on hood exit setups..
Also, on the coil on plug setup, I feel like I should see some good gains especially with a better fuel being run on the second tune allowing for much more timing. (gas station nearby offers 110 and 114 leaded trick fuel for track days)
Any advise on these matters? I am also adding a .5 liter plenum spacer to the sk2 ultra street manifold used. I plan on 2 separate tunes on the s300, one for track with the hood exit and race gas, and the other on the skunk2 megapower exhaust/hytech header on 93 pump.
Current setup before any changes is as follows
Current setup is as follows..
B18c1 block
82x87.2*
Cp 12.5:1 pistons
Eagle h beam rods
Exedy 8lb flywheel and 3 puck clutch
Balanced rotating assembly
P72 head
-Port and polish
-Type r valves
-Skunk2 pro2 cams (degreed)
-Aem trutime cam gears
-Skunk2 pro series valve springs and retainers
-skunk2 ultra street intake manifold (cleaned casting imperfections and polished inside)
-skunk2 pro series 74mm throttlebody
-thermal tb and i.m. gasket
-rdx 410cc injectors
-HYTECH replica header (small tube)
-skunk2 megapower exhaust (2.25")
Car ran a best of 13.291 @ 103 with a 1.89 60' on 22×9×13 mt's. Likely due to the heavy 99 si chassis full weight. Ultimate goal is to get into the 12s. Maybe 11s in a lighter shell if power gains are strong.
Re: Questions on headers and ignition before retune, input needed
Best run was 231.6, however it was made with more intake length, which wasnt how it has been ran on the street so this was the sheet i kept to be true to numbers.*
Also, notice the spike in power around 8600, followed by flatline. Likely caused by running out of spark, or restrictive 2 1/4 exhaust. I know shes got more in her, I just need some help getting steered in the right direction by the gurus. Thanks for any tips!
Re: Questions on headers and ignition before retune, input needed
As long as the Cop setup is happy , seen several where electrical gremlins have crippled the owners with reliability issues, a retune should deliver a generally higher peak power number along with a cleaner powerband in the higher revs. As for a hood exhaust setup it's really just for the very top end power
Re: Questions on headers and ignition before retune, input needed
Personally I went from a good OEM Honda distributor to the Hondata CPR and OEM Honda coil packs, didn't notice a single difference aside from increased cranking time on occasion. I'm happy about the switch because of the scare having the rotor come loose from sustained high RPM driving.
Re: Questions on headers and ignition before retune, input needed
I think the hondata cpr is going to be the way to go.. any ideas on the best coils to run for a high rpm all motor setup? Also hoping someone can chime in on the header portion. Thanks for the input guys much appreciated!
Re: Questions on headers and ignition before retune, input needed
Originally Posted by FlewByU352
Denso coils.
Denso should be the oem brand of Im not mistaken, but what do I order them for? I believe k series coils are too tall? Do I order them for the ridgeline then? Thanks for the input. Anyone have any advise on the hood exit idea? I plan on using this only on the separate race gas tune. (114 leaded most likely since I can buy it near the track anyway.)
Re: Questions on headers and ignition before retune, input needed
Yep Denso is the OEM brand. I originally used Honda Odyssey coils (same as the EM2/D17 that Hondata recommends) which had to be ground down and modified slightly to fit under the stock wire cover. I still have the coils if you're interested because I switched to AP2 S2000 coils and a plate setup for ease of replacement. I had no issues with the coils that fit under, but I worried for road trip sake that if I were 1,000 miles from home and needed a new coil from a parts store to make it home, I'd need a file and some time to make a new one work.
As far as the hood exit idea, I've just never been a fan even with turbo cars. The exhaust gases blur your vision out the window, it's loud, and you smell the fumes more.
Re: Questions on headers and ignition before retune, input needed
Originally Posted by FlewByU352
Yep Denso is the OEM brand. I originally used Honda Odyssey coils (same as the EM2/D17 that Hondata recommends) which had to be ground down and modified slightly to fit under the stock wire cover. I still have the coils if you're interested because I switched to AP2 S2000 coils and a plate setup for ease of replacement. I had no issues with the coils that fit under, but I worried for road trip sake that if I were 1,000 miles from home and needed a new coil from a parts store to make it home, I'd need a file and some time to make a new one work.
As far as the hood exit idea, I've just never been a fan even with turbo cars. The exhaust gases blur your vision out the window, it's loud, and you smell the fumes more.
Okay so the odyssey coils are the ones that fit under the stock cover then? And as for the hood exit, Im not overly worried about the gasses as Ill only be running it with the better fuel tune on track days. Im hoping that someone can chime in on the difference in power with a hood exit megaphone style vs say a downward routed megaphone style 4-1. In theory there shouldnt be any power gains, but Ive been surprised by so much more that I was wrong on in regards to power while building this. Perhaps a dyno comparison? Or some experience in running both? Hood exits seem to run 750 to upward to 1600.. downward style megaphobe 4-1s like the rmf seem significantly cheaper. Id like to see the dyno differences.
Re: Questions on headers and ignition before retune, input needed
Originally Posted by raverx3m
why rotor come loose.
type-r has no problem sustaining high rpm with stock dizzy
Sustaining high rpm, sure around 8500. But my dyno sheet indicates a flatline immediately after. My tuner had reccomended a larger exhaust and better ignition to make more power. Stock will have problems providing power above 9k rpm and this motor was built for 7-10k. Ive burned through 3 coils and ICMs already on this setup.. coil always look rainbowed pretty good and Icm smells burned. Whether or not all icms were bad idk, but Ive always replaced them as a set. This is one of those instances where coil on plug is a need I feel with a N/A setup.
Re: Questions on headers and ignition before retune, input needed
have you looked at the map sensor readings at that rpm at wot?
are is it still in vacuum or full atmospheric pressure?
you can see if its intake or exhaust restricting by the map reading.
maybe you have electrical problems
can your alternator keep up with the load at that high rpm?
ls gsr and type-r alternators have different pulley sizes.
you can over rev alternator as well... if using incorrect crank and alternator pulleys
alternator does have a rev limit..
if at high rpm your voltage drops it puts more stress on your ignition components
you can see the voltage in your datalogs check it just in case
Re: Questions on headers and ignition before retune, input needed
Originally Posted by raverx3m
have you looked at the map sensor readings at that rpm at wot?
are is it still in vacuum or full atmospheric pressure?
you can see if its intake or exhaust restricting by the map reading.
maybe you have electrical problems
can your alternator keep up with the load at that high rpm?
ls gsr and type-r alternators have different pulley sizes.
you can over rev alternator as well... if using incorrect crank and alternator pulleys
alternator does have a rev limit..
if at high rpm your voltage drops it puts more stress on your ignition components
you can see the voltage in your datalogs check it just in case
Ill run a datalog tomorrow and check what it shows. I am aware of the possibility of over revving the alternator. Used the original pulley and alternator from this motor before building it havent had any issue with alternators yet, but I suppose itncould be putting extra onto the ignition components. What exactly am I looking for to see exhaust restriction? Remaining in vacuum? The exhaust Im running now I am sure is robbing me of power as its only a 2.25" exhaust. Standard skunk2 megapower. I was going to change to the megapower RR, but really didnt want to run a 3" driving around town, so I decided to go with a nice hood exit and a better fuel for separate tune on track days. Thanks for the input everyone!
Re: Questions on headers and ignition before retune, input needed
when I had small intake pipe I always saw less than atmospheric pressure
check your map reading with ignition on and motor off to get the base pressure
after I upgraded to tuned length intake tube and bigger TB I saw full atmospheric pressure at wot.. then few weeks later felt a bit weird and I saw full atmospheric pressure much earlier . turned out my flex pipe exploded inside and I had an inch opening instead of 2.5 inch opening lol
pretty much think about sucking air through a tiny straw and through a big *** straw
and same for blowing air out through a tiny and big straw( best way I can explain)
Re: Questions on headers and ignition before retune, input needed
Originally Posted by raverx3m
when I had small intake pipe I always saw less than atmospheric pressure
check your map reading with ignition on and motor off to get the base pressure
after I upgraded to tuned length intake tube and bigger TB I saw full atmospheric pressure at wot.. then few weeks later felt a bit weird and I saw full atmospheric pressure much earlier . turned out my flex pipe exploded inside and I had an inch opening instead of 2.5 inch opening lol
pretty much think about sucking air through a tiny straw and through a big *** straw
and same for blowing air out through a tiny and big straw( best way I can explain)
I doubt that my intake is the problem being a 3" on a velocity stack to a 74mm throttlebody lol. But hey ya never know. Handy info to know regardless. About to go run a log now after I take care of a few things. I LOVE having Mondays off lol
Re: Questions on headers and ignition before retune, input needed
Originally Posted by raverx3m
why rotor come loose.
type-r has no problem sustaining high rpm with stock dizzy
The distributor itself isn't the problem, it's the screw holding the rotor on. First off it's a phillips head screw susceptible to stripping upon removal if you load it up with thread locker. Secondly I've tried a bolt instead of the screw, which worked but I still found it lose over time even with the blue thread locker and being able to torque it down a lot more. It wasn't worth the hassle, and I like the fact that I have no worries with coils that can go 100,000 miles. Replacing a cap and rotor often with a larger gap on the plugs is annoying.
04-12-2016, 11:48 PM
Questions on headers and ignition before retune, input needed
