Honda-Tech - Honda Forum Discussion - Project 300whp NA B-series begins. Brought to you by Tbone and Rlz engineering

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Project 300whp NA B-series begins. Brought to you by Tbone and Rlz engineering

Edit 8/06 alot has changed and alot of people involved in the original idea flaked , this is why it has taken a year to get it going again. Theres a bunch of updates and pics starting around page 15 of this post and on..You can skip the beginning and go there if you would like.

I'm making this post to start the documentation of my new project for the end of the season and into the next. I'm on a very limited budjet and will have to aquire parts slowly as I can. (thats my disclaimer as to why this sint going to be a built overnight)
The project will be titled "Project 300whp"
I along with the help Of Brad Z from Rlz Engineering will attempt to document a 300whp Na B series build from start to finish. We will be showing alot of tips and tricks used by the pro's to reach this unatainable by most majic number. I don't know if we will reach the goal but I feel we have a decent shot at it. To my knowledge there are no 300 whp b series motor that run on gas or are in anything but full drag cars..I will attempt to do this but instead of keeping things secret like most, I will post every bit of usefull info possible.

As many of you know my current 85mm bore stock stroke gsr peaked at 255 whp during its last dyno testing. This was after 10,000+ miles and over 350+ dyno pulls over the last 2 years.

We will still retain the cyl head thats on this motor now and possibly the same Jenvey Itb's, after that things change.
My dart block unfortunatly can only be bored to 85mm which its at now.
My new pistons that Brad from Rlz designed for me are 86mm minimum and will require a new block.
I'm currently looking for someone to sleeve one of my spare OE honda blocks for this project but havent had much luck with getting responces from the companies I have emailed about the build. (anyone have a good hookup for me?)

Brad posted up the pistons he had wiseco build for me a few weeks back, the new piston is of the all new Rlz designed Box forging and weigh a mere 200grams each (thats almost 100 grams per piston less than what I currently run https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emsmileo.gif ) See pic's below of my new pistons.
The pistons will be match up to a Crowrer 95 mm billet crankshaft that has been coated with an oil shedding coating to help reduce windage. The crank was not coated in these pics below.

We still haven't decided on what rod we will use either and I'm currently looking for good set thats reasonably priced since this will be a budjet build. I have run Eagle rods in my current motor and have gotten over 10,000 miles and 350+ dyno pulls without problems yet, this is with the small bolt 5/16 bolts too. If I cant afford anything else, Eagles will be used in project 300whp as well.

Here are some of the teaser pics promised earlier,
RLZ ENGINEERING spec Wiseco box forged 200 gram pistons.(new)
Original link is here for the pistons.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1323338
http://is.rely.net/1-925-26365-l-C9k...1xrexoYqFw.jpg
http://is.rely.net/1-925-26366-l-WLL...F15lTIEWSQ.jpg
http://is.rely.net/1-925-26367-l-gO7...pm0tn5m0dg.jpg
This is Wiseco's new 86mm strutted/boxxed B-series forging. With my
dome
and valve pockets it came in at 204 grams with a .940 compression
height.
That's with 2618 alloy and a 3 ring Nitrided/Napier xx package that
doesn't
need a spacer ring. It's the first truly dedicated forging for the
86mm
N/A Honda Drag market, so it won't go less than 86mm and it won't
support
over a 19mm pin. It also won't build a dome that's less than 6 cc's or
so.
Wiseco supplied these with a 59 gram straight wall 9310 alloy tool
steel
pin. They use the same forging press they make their intricate
IRL/Cup/pro
stock forgings from. The two bridges between the pin bosses keep them
from
moving around at high rpm-so the pin bores look great after operation.
They
loaded these up with their top-of-the-line Xylan skirt coating too.
Because
of the supports under the deck of this piston, it should have a
relatively
long life compared to some of the internally-milled time-bombs on the
market. The only internal milling on the part is the window they put
in the
pin boss supports. It's a bit hard to see by the pictures, but the
underside perfectly follows the dome and valve pockets. Everywhere
there
isn't a support, the piston is a consistent .080" thickness. pricing
on
these things is about $650 w/ skirt coatings/gas ports/dome
polishing/pins/
and xx rings-That's actually a good deal considering what they charge
for
their IRL pistons.

Update..
Here are some pics of the new crankshaft I will b e using during this build. The guys over at Hunter performance make this unit and it should be available to the public very soon. I agreed to try one in this build since it's a new product and I have talking with the owner of the company about it for almost a year now. This crank is the whole reason the is project was even conceived..
Its still a 95mm crankshaft.

http://is.rely.net/1-925-30728-l-hcd...DfooZVWFGA.jpg
http://is.rely.net/1-925-30729-l-qH2...DzhHKMyUew.jpg
http://is.rely.net/1-925-30730-l-S4s...DGpYgEIXqg.jpg
http://is.rely.net/1-925-30731-l-aLM...sBiHsK1vpQ.jpg

We currently havent decided on what header combo to use with this setup. I of course will run my Smsp big tube on the street, but on the track we would like to try a meagaphone style header.
Brad and I decided it would only be fair to try as many as possible on the setup.what we would like is for each respected header builder to fabricate a header to be dyno tested on a loan basis for evaluation and dyno tuning. We will return the headr apon completion of the testing or purchase it to run on the car for tack event's.
Randy from Rmf has already expressed intrest and would like to give a shot at it. we invite everyone to join in on this as it will be fun and informative to the whole comunity. (this isnt a competetion, it's build to goal kinda thing.)

Thats all the info for now. I currently need a block sleeved and a set of connecting rods to get the build going. Sponsors are welcome https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...es/emsmile.gif

Modified by Tbone at 2:16 PM 9/18/2005

Modified by Tbone at 9:09 AM 8/25/2006

Re: Project 300whp NA B-series begins. Brought to you by Tbone and Rlz engineering (Tbone)

300whp "budget" build? im subscribing.

Re: Project 300whp NA B-series begins. Brought to you by Tbone and Rlz engineering (Tbone)

Are you looking for a "deal" on the sleeving, or something of that nature?

Re: Project 300whp NA B-series begins. Brought to you by Tbone and Rlz engineering (rochesterricer)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mtber »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good luck with the project </TD></TR></TABLE>
thanks man , luck will be definatly part of iot..lol
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rochesterricer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you looking for a "deal" on the sleeving, or something of that nature?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Basicly , or for someone to supply me with a sleeved block and sombody to supply rods if they can.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRXofPain »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">300whp "budget" build? im subscribing.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Keep in mind that I mean budjet compared to the only guys who have ever seen 300 whp on a NA B= professional race yeams with tons of Reaserch and development guys

Re: Project 300whp NA B-series begins. Brought to you by Tbone and Rlz engineering (Tbone)

Re: Project 300whp NA B-series begins. Brought to you by Tbone and Rlz engineering (Hamstr323)

What are your plans for the oiling system?

Re: Project 300whp NA B-series begins. Brought to you by Tbone and Rlz engineering (allmotorhatch)

I'm guessing a dry sump?

Re: Project 300whp NA B-series begins. Brought to you by Tbone and Rlz engineering (Aquafina)

T-bone, you are simply nuts. Are you planning on running this in the rex? and still running in a "street" class. That would be sweet. IF you could pull 10's in a NA honda street car that would be simply insane, probably impossible. This build is gonna be exciting. Although i really must say, 300whp is gonna be reeeeeeeaaaaaalllllly daaamn challenging. Best of luck. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Re: Project 300whp NA B-series begins. Brought to you by Tbone and Rlz engineering (rjay8604)

albert r made 290? so it's not impossible https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Re: Project 300whp NA B-series begins. Brought to you by Tbone and Rlz engineering (rjay8604)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rjay8604 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">T-bone, you are simply nuts. Are you planning on running this in the rex? and still running in a "street" class. That would be sweet. IF you could pull 10's in a NA honda street car that would be simply insane, probably impossible. This build is gonna be exciting. Although i really must say, 300whp is gonna be reeeeeeeaaaaaalllllly daaamn challenging. Best of luck. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif </TD></TR></TABLE>

Saul has run 10's in a street class crx quite a while ago. 10.98 if im correct. I've personally seen 2 all motor setups dyno on an industry standard dyno jet and make just over 300 whp. But what T-bone is doing in my opinion is damm near "impossible". So I'm crossing my fingers for him and subscribing immediately! This man is a rare species these days. Make it happen BONE!

Re: Project 300whp NA B-series begins. Brought to you by Tbone and Rlz engineering (Hamstr323)

Albert made 280 whp, and that dyno reads very high!

Re: Project 300whp NA B-series begins. Brought to you by Tbone and Rlz engineering (Tbone)

So 300whp pump gas is the goal?

Re: Project 300whp NA B-series begins. Brought to you by Tbone and Rlz engineering (BrendaRose)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BrendaRose »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Albert made 280 whp, and that dyno reads very high!</TD></TR></TABLE>
not on his old motor that blew in bakersfield https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Re: Project 300whp NA B-series begins. Brought to you by Tbone and Rlz engineering (Tbone)

bro...can to indulge me on which eagle rod you will be using???...the Eagle 'ESP' H beam connecting rod???also...care to share wat compression you will be running???

Re: Project 300whp NA B-series begins. Brought to you by Tbone and Rlz engineering (cyrix12)

Very interesting. I'll be following this. Thanks for sharing, and good luck reaching that goal. Very impressive if you can do it https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...es/emsmile.gif

Re: Project 300whp NA B-series begins. Brought to you by Tbone and Rlz engineering (DanishR)

goodluck Tbone... you should get a fundraiser goin or something to help this project along

Re: Project 300whp NA B-series begins. Brought to you by Tbone and Rlz engineering (Tbone)

Good luck bro, I hope it turns out in your favor. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Re: Project 300whp NA B-series begins. Brought to you by Tbone and Rlz engineering (AnToNy)

If you pick up another 45 WHP deep into the "law of diminishing returns" area of the B series with those pistons and a stroker crank you will be my all time hero. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif Cams are changing right...? good luck...subscribing. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...es/emsmile.gif

Modified by moto1320 at 2:06 PM 8/14/2005

Re: Project 300whp NA B-series begins. Brought to you by Tbone and Rlz engineering (moto1320)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by moto1320 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you pick up another 45 WHP deep into the "law of diminishing returns" area of the B series with those pistons and a stroker crank you will be my all time hero. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif Cams are changing right...? good luck...subscribing. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...es/emsmile.gif

Modified by moto1320 at 2:06 PM 8/14/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>

He made 267 uncorrected it was just good air ....

I think SAE is like 29.2

Re: Project 300whp NA B-series begins. Brought to you by Tbone and Rlz engineering (Tbone)

hey tbone if i still have my personal street header by the time this build is over....ill loan it to you guys just pay for shipping back and forth.....

Re: Project 300whp NA B-series begins. Brought to you by Tbone and Rlz engineering (SUPERNATURAL)