Poor Mans R! Help me Build it!
07-15-2003, 07:23 AM
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Poor Mans R! Help me Build it!
sup guys... i have a B16A in my Ek right now and i'm picking up a B18C block this friday so i can put it together with my B16A head... i was just woundering wut parts i needed to replace to make it stronger and have more compression... i'm really curious about pistons??? i want after maket pistons but witch ones??? it has a bore of 81.4 right now... should i bore it out or wut are my choices to make this "Poor Mans R" strong...
right now i'm planning on getting this for my head...
-skunk 2 retainer, valves, and mani
-TODA valve springs, and the B's
-port & polish
wut do i get or do to my Block??? i dont want it to strong either, it's my daily driver... i just want my setup to be as strong or a bit stonger then a R...
help me out guys... thanx in advance
right now i'm planning on getting this for my head...
-skunk 2 retainer, valves, and mani
-TODA valve springs, and the B's
-port & polish
wut do i get or do to my Block??? i dont want it to strong either, it's my daily driver... i just want my setup to be as strong or a bit stonger then a R...
help me out guys... thanx in advance
07-15-2003, 07:43 AM
#2
Re: Poor Mans R! Help me Build it! (EK-TUNED)
I am in the same situation right now. In fact I was about to post the same thread right now. 
First of all, you current bore will not allow you to run OS pistons so I guess you can either buy and install new sleeves or go 81.5mm which is what many people consider the limit on stock sleeves.
As far as getting close to the performance of b18c5, be realistic. It can be achieved but it will cost you $$ and compression is going to have to be set high... With the right tuning it can be done, no doubt...
Just try to plan for the money you are about to spend....
This is what I am going to do
My b18c1 will get hot tanked, the crank will get turned;balances along with the flywheel, pistons, rids, pulley.
I am not 100% certain yet but I think I am going to go with ITR OS pistons and rods.
For bearings check out the ACL kit. For $99 shipped you get
ACL duraglide bearing kit which consist of
Main bearings,Rod bearings,thrust washers,assembly lube,plastigauge,instructions.
many people use them and actually prefer them over OEM.. check them out
My b16a head will stay atock for awhile to get the car running and later on I will upgrade the head with type-r internals.
I know that my using the ITR pistons my compression will drop but that is a good sucrifice to make to always have the boost option open. With high compression, you are stuck with all-motor. (what's wrong with that?
)
Anyway, I am really looking forward on people opinions on
what is the most efficient poor man's setup that will give a REAL C5 a run for its money
First of all, you current bore will not allow you to run OS pistons so I guess you can either buy and install new sleeves or go 81.5mm which is what many people consider the limit on stock sleeves.
As far as getting close to the performance of b18c5, be realistic. It can be achieved but it will cost you $$ and compression is going to have to be set high... With the right tuning it can be done, no doubt...
Just try to plan for the money you are about to spend....
This is what I am going to do
My b18c1 will get hot tanked, the crank will get turned;balances along with the flywheel, pistons, rids, pulley.
I am not 100% certain yet but I think I am going to go with ITR OS pistons and rods.
For bearings check out the ACL kit. For $99 shipped you get
ACL duraglide bearing kit which consist of
Main bearings,Rod bearings,thrust washers,assembly lube,plastigauge,instructions.
many people use them and actually prefer them over OEM.. check them out
My b16a head will stay atock for awhile to get the car running and later on I will upgrade the head with type-r internals.
I know that my using the ITR pistons my compression will drop but that is a good sucrifice to make to always have the boost option open. With high compression, you are stuck with all-motor. (what's wrong with that?
)Anyway, I am really looking forward on people opinions on
what is the most efficient poor man's setup that will give a REAL C5 a run for its money
07-15-2003, 07:56 AM
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Re: Poor Mans R! Help me Build it! (navin)
the person above me didnt read much of what you posted.
go with ENDYN rollerwave pistson, you can get these from a moderator on here named EARL. get them in 82mm size and they should come in at like 11-5 compression. which is very street able. you can also get your ACL bearings from him for 110. the extra 10$ is MORE then worth it to get from him,just so you can pick his brain and listen to his knowledge. he will answer ANY question you have and NEVER feed you bullshit numbers or lie to you.
personal opinion here, but i dont like mix matching springs and retainers. go with the skunk2 SET. springs and retainers. or the toda springs and retainers. either one will be fine for your spec B cams.
good luck.
go with ENDYN rollerwave pistson, you can get these from a moderator on here named EARL. get them in 82mm size and they should come in at like 11-5 compression. which is very street able. you can also get your ACL bearings from him for 110. the extra 10$ is MORE then worth it to get from him,just so you can pick his brain and listen to his knowledge. he will answer ANY question you have and NEVER feed you bullshit numbers or lie to you.
personal opinion here, but i dont like mix matching springs and retainers. go with the skunk2 SET. springs and retainers. or the toda springs and retainers. either one will be fine for your spec B cams.
good luck.
07-15-2003, 10:26 AM
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07-15-2003, 11:03 AM
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Re: Poor Mans R! Help me Build it! (EK-TUNED)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EK-TUNED »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
picking up a B18C block this friday so i can put it together with my B16A head...
it has a bore of 81.4 right now... should i bore it out or wut are my choices to make this "Poor Mans R" strong...
wut do i get or do to my Block??? i dont want it to strong either, it's my daily driver... i just want my setup to be as strong or a bit stonger then a R...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Since you want something that is simply a step above an ITR and not too crazy since its your daily driver, Here is what you do:
* Toda Spec A's
* Cam Gears (I Prefer Toda as they are very precise and use Vernier measurement)
* Your choice on Valve Springs/Retainers
1) 00-01 ITR ValveSprings and Retainers (If maximum Redline will be 8400RPM)
2) Toda Valvesprings and Ferrea Ti Retainers (If you plan on going above 8400RPM now or later, A's will still make power at 9000+)
* Replace your Intake Valves with ITR Intake Valves
* Bore the B18C1 Block to 81.5mm
* Wiseco Pistons in 81.5mm
* Replace all the OEM Gaskets and Bearing with OEM ones. (Don't waste the extra $$ on Aftermarket)
The Above setup should get you about 190-195whp depending on what you have for a header, Intake, and ECU/Piggyback Unit
Also If you can budget it in:
* P&P from Portflow, or at the least a 3 Angle Valve Job
* ITR Intake Manifold
* ITR TB or Bore your SI Throttle Body out
* Balance your Crank, Rods & Pistons.
* Possibly Swap out the GSR rods for ITR Rods or Eagle Rods.
picking up a B18C block this friday so i can put it together with my B16A head...
it has a bore of 81.4 right now... should i bore it out or wut are my choices to make this "Poor Mans R" strong...
wut do i get or do to my Block??? i dont want it to strong either, it's my daily driver... i just want my setup to be as strong or a bit stonger then a R...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Since you want something that is simply a step above an ITR and not too crazy since its your daily driver, Here is what you do:
* Toda Spec A's
* Cam Gears (I Prefer Toda as they are very precise and use Vernier measurement)
* Your choice on Valve Springs/Retainers
1) 00-01 ITR ValveSprings and Retainers (If maximum Redline will be 8400RPM)
2) Toda Valvesprings and Ferrea Ti Retainers (If you plan on going above 8400RPM now or later, A's will still make power at 9000+)
* Replace your Intake Valves with ITR Intake Valves
* Bore the B18C1 Block to 81.5mm
* Wiseco Pistons in 81.5mm
* Replace all the OEM Gaskets and Bearing with OEM ones. (Don't waste the extra $$ on Aftermarket)
The Above setup should get you about 190-195whp depending on what you have for a header, Intake, and ECU/Piggyback Unit
Also If you can budget it in:
* P&P from Portflow, or at the least a 3 Angle Valve Job
* ITR Intake Manifold
* ITR TB or Bore your SI Throttle Body out
* Balance your Crank, Rods & Pistons.
* Possibly Swap out the GSR rods for ITR Rods or Eagle Rods.
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07-15-2003, 11:13 AM
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Re: Poor Mans R! Help me Build it! (Mike M)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mike M »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
* Possibly Swap out the GSR rods for ITR Rods or Eagle Rods.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
and if you cant do either one of those at least get new APR Rod Bolts.
* Possibly Swap out the GSR rods for ITR Rods or Eagle Rods.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
and if you cant do either one of those at least get new APR Rod Bolts.
07-15-2003, 01:11 PM
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Re: Poor Mans R! Help me Build it! (10K2HVN)
I dont see y u need forged pistons for this moderate build up. Honda cast pistons will be more then acceptable. Just use your b16 pistons, theyl give u a nice 11.5 C/R, about as high as u should go on a daily driver. (Tuning..blah..blah...) I just got my poor mans type R running, and its a very nice upgrade over a stock GSR motor. I used my old b16 pistons, ported/polished b16 head, ITR valvesprings and cams. Noticeably more top-end and i still have to chip my ECU so i can get more fuel and shift at 8400. Spent around 600 bux on parts and labor total, although i had b16 pistons, valvesprings, and cams.
07-15-2003, 10:50 PM
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Re: Poor Mans R! Help me Build it! (Mentat Ghola)
where can i get a 3 angle valve job and bore my block out to 81.5 and how much..???
live in cali by the way...
Modified by EK-TUNED at 6:22 PM 7/16/2003
live in cali by the way...
Modified by EK-TUNED at 6:22 PM 7/16/2003
07-16-2003, 04:33 PM
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Re: Poor Mans R! Help me Build it! (i want a civic)
I have a poor mans R, GSR, CTR pistons, mild head work, Toda B's
It made 190hp and ran 13.1 @104 on BFG's
It made 190hp and ran 13.1 @104 on BFG's
07-16-2003, 09:50 PM
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Re: Poor Mans R! Help me Build it! (THEYARDMAN)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have a poor mans R, GSR, CTR pistons, mild head work, Toda B's
It made 190hp and ran 13.1 @104 on BFG's </TD></TR></TABLE>
wut mods do u have exactly???
It made 190hp and ran 13.1 @104 on BFG's </TD></TR></TABLE>
wut mods do u have exactly???
07-17-2003, 04:21 AM
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Re: Poor Mans R! Help me Build it! (i want a civic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by i want a civic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">whats the difference between using arp rod bolts and studs or using type r rod bolts and head studs???</TD></TR></TABLE>
APR is stronger.
APR is stronger.
07-17-2003, 08:46 AM
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Re: Poor Mans R! Help me Build it! (THEYARDMAN)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by THEYARDMAN »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have a poor mans R, GSR, CTR pistons, mild head work, Toda B's
It made 190hp and ran 13.1 @104 on BFG's </TD></TR></TABLE>
Similar set-up here except all Skunk2 up top. No dyno or track #'s yet but runs great
It made 190hp and ran 13.1 @104 on BFG's </TD></TR></TABLE>
Similar set-up here except all Skunk2 up top. No dyno or track #'s yet but runs great
07-17-2003, 09:22 AM
#18
Re: Poor Mans R! Help me Build it! (Bob-DC2)
Here is some advice.
Pick an eninge builder and work with that person.
A motor is a decently complex combination and there are many good combo's and bad combo's. Getting info from a lot of places and putting the motor together "commitee" style will usually get you the bad combo.
Hope this helps
Modified by Rocket at 8:04 PM 7/17/2003
Pick an eninge builder and work with that person.
A motor is a decently complex combination and there are many good combo's and bad combo's. Getting info from a lot of places and putting the motor together "commitee" style will usually get you the bad combo.
Hope this helps
Modified by Rocket at 8:04 PM 7/17/2003
07-17-2003, 09:39 PM
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Re: Poor Mans R! Help me Build it! (Rocket)
thanx for the advice ROCKET!
Where can i go to get my engine built in southern cali??? can u guys recomand me to some places that will give me a good deal and good advice???
Where can i go to get my engine built in southern cali??? can u guys recomand me to some places that will give me a good deal and good advice???
07-18-2003, 06:39 AM
#20
Re: Poor Mans R! Help me Build it! (EK-TUNED)
Dynamic Autosports and TrackMaster both have excellent engine builders/tuners. Both places have experience with 10sec all motor cars. I also know them personally. So I am not giving you magazine technology/advice.
07-18-2003, 07:12 AM
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Re: Poor Mans R! Help me Build it! (Rocket)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rocket »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Dynamic Autosports and TrackMaster both have excellent engine builders/tuners. Both places have experience with 10sec all motor cars. I also know them personally. So I am not giving you magazine technology/advice.</TD></TR></TABLE>
doesn't omniman work at dynamics?
doesn't omniman work at dynamics?
07-18-2003, 09:10 AM
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Re: Poor Mans R! Help me Build it! (Rocket)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rocket »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Dynamic Autosports and TrackMaster both have excellent engine builders/tuners. Both places have experience with 10sec all motor cars. I also know them personally. So I am not giving you magazine technology/advice.</TD></TR></TABLE>
website or #???
website or #???
07-18-2003, 09:36 AM
#23
Re: Poor Mans R! Help me Build it! (EK-TUNED)
http://dynamicautosports.com/ ask for Steve (Omniman).
or
TrackMasters ph. 661-254-6055 ask for Eric.
or
TrackMasters ph. 661-254-6055 ask for Eric.
