98itr0448

Hey, my lsvtec is at the 500mile mark. The bottom end consists of srp pistons 11:8:1, eagle rods, ls crank, arp everything, itr girdle. The head is stock itr with skunk2 valvetrain and stageII cams. I took the car to Trackmasters in Alabama to tune my hondata. The car drove down fine on my XS engineering chippped p73 and stock injectors, but by the time I left it would barely idle. I feared the guy there put my cam gears too close and bent a valve or something because the car was running like crap and one of the cylinders had lower compression than the rest.

I'm not placing the blame on anyone, but I was pretty dissapointed in the "tuning" I paid for at Trackmasters. Arthur is a real nice guy, but needs a little more seat time. He was able to smooth out my dyno curve some, but the car kept loosing hp. It dynoed at 188 on the first run, and ended up around 182hp. I was expecting the car to put down between 190-200, not 180-something.

I ended up putting my old ecu back in as well as the stock injectors and the car seems to run fine again. I also set the cam gears back to the machine shop setting and my idle returned for the most part. For now I think the car is ok, but I may get a leak down test done to make sure. I'll be taking the car to Motorvations in AL on friday and let Jim see what he can do. He has tuned several of my friends cars and has a good reputation. I guess this is what I get for trying someone new, although I figured since Hondata lists Trackmasters as a tuner on their site, they would be reputable.

My compression results are #1 (145), #2 (210), #3(200), #4(210). My machine shop said the chrome faced rings JE uses may take a little longer to seat, and that would explain the low number in cylinder 1. We put a cap of oil in the cylinder and it raised compression to 185. Is it common to have a one cylinder that's lower than the rest, or should I be worried about the compression numbers.

I may get a valve adjustment done to see if everything is still good after the dyno runs. How long does it typically take for rings to seat? I figured they would be fine by now, but I guess I'll know for sure once I get to 1000miles. Also, my valvetrain is a little more noisy than it was stock, I'm assuming thats normal when running a larger cam. Has anyone ever had a slight rattle come from their lost motion assemblies? I hear a slight rattle when Im in 4th or 5th at 2000rpms or so. It sounds like a bean in a tin can. It's not real loud, I have to stick my head almost out the window to hear it, but doesn't sound like a problem (valves, ect).

Any input or suggestions would be appreciated, thanks!

lsvtec101

iTrader: (1)

i have a stock b16 head w/ ls block w/ p30's compression 11:5:1. im getting 230 across the board. im not sure on the je piston, maybe your rings havent seated yet or correctly. too much fuel could cause the rings to fubar

jdmcx

talk to ROCKET he is pretty good with hondata

per4mance

iTrader: (1)

jim down at motorvations is a good guy but if you really want a good tune go over to balanced motorsports in atl, let ed do your tunning, he is one of the best in the south from my opinion, I to had my car tuned at arthurs place (trackmasters), I built the motor my self so i can complain about that, but the first two tune i had, i felt that the base map on hondata ran better, but this last tune finally worked out good,I two had a lower compression cylinder but it was just 10 to 15 psi lower then the rest, (205,215,220,215) I figured that it was becasue of my valve stem seals.Go to balanced you want be dissapointed.

98itr0448

Thanks, If I don't end up going to motorvations, I'll go to ATL. Thanks, oh and whats their number?

per4mance

iTrader: (1)

Balanced performance motorsports 1-678-596-3133 talk to ed, he is the tuner

lohatch

how many miles were on the block when you did this rebuild??? did you have a shop build the bottom end??? did you overbore it or just hone it??? also did you mic the bore to make sure it was within specs. it sounds like you are gettting pistons slap and your compression shouldnt be like that. when you added the oil and it went to 185 did you do it again and again?? was it dropping 10 psi every time you did it??? your rings should seat fairy quick. i realize that you posted you have JE rings, but this is what hasting recommends and this is how i have been breaking in my motors. http://www.hastingsmfg.com/Ser...e.htm (but in order to do this with high compression you have to start tuning right away,so not to damage the motor) what was your A/F like when you were on the dyno and what was your timing at?? i dont want to get your hopes down but i dont see the compression coming back up on that cylinder. if you could answer some of the above questions maybe we could get some good info going in this thread

lohatch

kind of worries me that you were running on a chipped ECU and that compression. i dont know what that chip was doing as far as fuel and timing . i think there is a big misconception among HT members that it is "easy" to run upwards of 12:1 compression without problems. i seem to see everyone write. "yah you can run 12.5:1 compression on pump gas with some good tuning." and everyone disregards the GOOD TUNING!!!! and this tuning needs to take place upon startup not 500 miles later imo. i hope we can get some more experienced people in here to help you out

drdisco69

I don't mean to jack the thread, but I have to ask this of every one who has compression numbers for new motors.

What break in procedure did you use, "take it easy" or "let it have it"?

lohatch

http://www.hastingsmfg.com/Ser...e.htm
i posted this above too. i has worked for me, but you need to careful so you dont lean out your motor or encounter detnation if you are running high compression. i really dont believe in taking it easy for X,XXX miles. those instructions are from the ring manufacturer. anyways, does anyone else have any input for 98Itr-0448??

butters

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lohatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">http://www.hastingsmfg.com/Ser...e.htm
i posted this above too. i has worked for me, but you need to careful so you dont lean out your motor or encounter detnation if you are running high compression. i really dont believe in taking it easy for X,XXX miles. those instructions are from the ring manufacturer. anyways, does anyone else have any input for 98Itr-0448??</TD></TR></TABLE>

he should have took the car straight to the dyno after putting the motor in. according to info earl, jeff @ IB, and motoman, the rings are going to seal well before the first 500 miles. more like the first 20 miles. research!

98itr0448

Thats what I thought as well. The car has already been to the dyno, but it didn't seem to run right afterwards. I think all it needed was a cam gear adjustment and it would have been fine. I'll probably put the hondata back in tomorrow as well as the injectors and see if it runs ok. I'll probably take it by the machine shop for a leakdown test. If it is a bad ring, I need to go ahead and get it fixed. Thanks

98itr0448

and as far as break-in, I drove it fairly easy for 30 minutes or so and then gradually got on it a little more, taking it to 4500 or so and letting the engine slow the car back down and then get back on the gas. I probably have done this a hundred times since I started the motor. I never drove at a constant speed for even 10 seconds during the first couple hundred miles. I have been driving it a little harder after the 500 mark, but I hit the dyno at 215miles. I figured that was plenty of time for break-in. The machine shop is saying that the ring should seat within 1,000 miles, only because its a chorme faced ring, which is apparently much stronger than normal rings and therefore is more difficult to seat. I'm still going to have them check everything out tomorrow and see what the deal is.

Ch3mik

true that. After me and my buddy got through building anfd dropping in my motor. I drove the LSvtec around for about 30 miles then started beating the hell out of it, its been a year now and its still chugging the same. I have a 96 B18B bottom end with 60k on it and the only thing I changed on it were the CTR pistons i threw in. thats it.the head is a B16a BONE stock. I have no VAFC, no CAMS, no HONDATA on a the stock PR3 ecu and made 183whp /136ftlbs (dynojet). I would stay away from "chipped" ecus. Ive seen many motors go byebye cuz of em. most just make you run dangerously lean hence making you "fast and furious" as ebay will tell you. lol. if theres no hack or hondata ot tune it then I would run the stock ecu. I did and my AF is ok. it gets really rich after 6k rpms but I stayed away from those chipped ECUs.

lsvtec101

iTrader: (1)

there's nothing wrong with chipped ecu's, i broke my motor in with a kenji chipped p28.

lohatch

one of my first questions was how many miles did the block have on it before the rebuild?? did you mic the bore to ensure that they were within spec?? did you get it bored over or just honed??? did a shop assemble the bottom end or did you???

stevel

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by per4mance &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Balanced performance motorsports 1-678-596-3133 talk to ed, he is the tuner </TD></TR></TABLE>

ed is the man!! super nice guy and can tune anything and everything! Wish we had a tuner like him up here. I'm jealous. I'm willing to bet he's one of the best in the country, easily.

i think the number is 678-546-3133.

s

HatchAttack242

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98Itr-0448 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I hear a slight rattle when Im in 4th or 5th at 2000rpms or so. It sounds like a bean in a tin can. It's not real loud, I have to stick my head almost out the window to hear it, but doesn't sound like a problem (valves, ect).

Any input or suggestions would be appreciated, thanks!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've heard people describe the sound of detonation as BB's rattling in a tin can. From what I understand going full throttle at a low RPM in a high gear will put alot of load on the engine and can cause detonation to happen.

I'm by no means an expert on any of this, but I'd at least consider that detonation might be what you are hearing.

UnKnownUser

Everything seems good, cyldiner one is little low and no one has ask but what was your air/fuel?Any graphs?

lohatch

since when is having 145-210-200-210 normal?????????? and if you read the whole thread my first post asked what his A/F was.

98itr0448

I put the hondata and 440's back in this morning and it seems to drive fine. I think the problem at the dyno was the cam gear settings. A/F was right around 12:5:1, not too lean or too rich. The block was used, but I had it bored .20 over and honed for new pistons. The machine shop assembled everything. I handed them all new parts (pistons, rings, rods, arp bolts, ect ect) and about a week later they handed my a completed motor. They decked the block a little, but the head was brand new and didn't need any work. The head came with oem valves, valve guides, and valve seats. I had the shop put in skunk2 springs, retainers, and cams. I used the rockers, ect off my old itr head.

I guess I'm going to throw in some octane booster to see if the rattling goes away. Maybe that will let me know wether or not it is detonation. I'll also plan on getting a leak down test done to make sure everything else is ok. Thanks for the help.

lohatch

there's some good answers. my concern with your block was that maybe you just honed it and put the pistons in and didnt really check out the tolerances and you were getting piston slap, but since a shop did it they should have done everything to spec. did you get oversized pistons??? because if you run the standard size pistons and bore it .020" over there is a very good chance you will have piston slap. i bought an A6 block from some guys and it had been bored .020" over a few years ago and they really didnt know what they had. i being a dumbass didnt mic the bore and assembled it with 75mm SRPs. it had piston slap like mad. my compression was 11.5:1 running on 92 octane and tuned with uberdata and when i tore it apart they were pitted pretty bad from detnation. it ran for about 4K before i started to get pretty bad blowby past the rings. i posted this so people learn from my mistakes and hopefully save yourself some money and headaches. the important thing to note is TIMING!!!!!!!!! and you still havent answered what your ignition timing is at. this is going to play a big part in whether you are detnating or not.

lsvtec101

iTrader: (1)

octane booster is junk

98itr0448

We set the ignition timing to stock. I used 81.5mm bore pistons, not stock size with rings. I guess I'll just drive the thing to 1000miles and see if my compression goes up. I am getting a strange light rattling noise under 25% throttle. I can usualy hear it between 2000-3500 rpm. I'm thinking maybe the LMA's are just noisy b/c it doesn't seem like detonation. The car still pulls smoothly and accelerates and decellerates fine. It is wanting to stall and die sometimes when I push the clutch in when I go to stop at a light or something. I may just need to turn the idle up a little. Thanks for the help

87HybridB16

98Itr-0448: I was there when you were getting your car dynoed at Trackmasters. I would have been pissed to see that happen to my car too. I was the guy with the 87 CRX with a B16 under the hood. With what I had heard that you had on your car from Kevin, I would have expected to see you hit 190-200 as well. Sorry to hear that man.