B_Swapped93

Before I pull the engine and redo the timing with all new guides etc, there's one thing me and my friends can't get over. According to the chain links it's jumped 4-5 teeth, yet the front/rear marks are dead on contradicting the chain links, plus when I compression tested it I was pushing 213 PSI. I'm getting VTC phase gap in K-pro, it was timed perfectly when I put it in, and now i'm apparently off and tripping timing codes. What i'm lost on is how can my timing marks be dead on(front/back of the cam) and then have the black link moved way a head of the circle for it on the cam.

pogeeboy27

iTrader: (3)

By circle are you talking about the dot on the VTC cam gear in your second picture or the dot on the crank that is supposed to line up with the black link? As you put the chain on with the tensioner off, is the slack on the intake side of the engine or the exhaust side? If you are off as you claim and you are sure you installed the chain correctly then it is possible your chain is stretched beyond its service limit. The chain is the achilles heel of K series engines, especially with aggressive cams.

B_Swapped93

Yes, the reference for when you put the chain on that's the circle/arrow I'm referencing to. It's a bit hard to see but i'm pointing to it with the black glove, the links are faded but off by 4-5. Slack was on the exhaust side. The only thing that may be different was I went to spin the engine with the cam holder pins and it clicked the tensioner once to tighten it or else the tensioner was acting like the slide of a gun and would "****" every time the valves closed. The tensioner it's self was new oem Honda a few weeks ago, unknown KM's on the engine tho I was the first to open it up. stock a2 cames

pogeeboy27

iTrader: (3)

There should be 2 black links on top, one on the exhaust cam gear and the other on the VTC gear. There should be 7 gold colored links in between. Not sure if you have seen the FSM but in case you didn't see link below. If I'm not mistakened there should also be a black link that lines up with the dot on the crankshaft gear. Keep in mind that once you spin the engine with the chain and tensioner installed the black links will not line up with their respective marks.

How to mess up cam/chain install - K20A.org .:. The K Series Source . Honda / Acura K20a k24a Engine Forum

B_Swapped93

I watched a few vids too, and added an extra click when doing it, witch has been recommended. I just ran out and took this pic, the links are now only 1 or 2 off depending on weather you count the 1 link of change. The timing marks are dead on and the piston is at TDC.

DumpdEJ6

If the timing marks are dead on, then that's all that is important. Think about it like this: what is the purpose of the chain? Answer: to keep the cams in time with the crankshaft. Are the cams in time with the crankshaft? Answer: Yes.

The chain doesn't need to be in time with anything unless there's a sensor that picks up the color of the links, lol.

EDIT: I don't have much experience with K-Series engines so take what I say with a grain of salt. But this sounds like putting the timing belt on a B-Series and rotating it around a couple times. The timing marks on your BELT will no longer line up with the marks on the cams/crank, but it doesn't matter if the cams/crank are lined up with each other.

B_Swapped93

See, that's the thing I can't get over, the marks are dead in for the crank and cams. So why am I getting vtc phase gap, if it was the sensor it's self k-pro would say sensor valve malfunction. But "phase gap" impleys the phase plates at the end of the cams are a-skew and they're not. Last thing to check is the sensors them selves but the VTC valve looked fine to me, same with the plugs.

pogeeboy27

iTrader: (3)

I've personally had timing chain woes with a K20 and it is frustrating. Even with the engine out of the car it can be tricky to get the chain lined up if you are a one man show. The way I see it you have 2 options. The first would be to redo the timing chain per the FSM and try again. The second option would be to bite the bullet and buy a new chain and install per the FSM. Like I said earlier the timing chain is the achilles heel of the K series engines and they are a wear item.

B_Swapped93

SOLVED: While I did check the back pulse plates I didn't look at them close enough at the intake side plate, backed the bolt out and sure enough the phase plate just spun and slid around like a top, while the other is nice and firm as it should be. Not idea what cause this tho, the damage is probably on the cam rather than the plate but i'm going to be ripping it apart as the bolt won't come out with the cams still in.

pogeeboy27

iTrader: (3)

Glad to hear you found your issue. Really odd the bolt backed out unless it was either not torqued correctly or it was cross threaded.

B_Swapped93

I meant the cams have to come out to remove the bolt, which sucked cause I have to retime the whole thing etc now. But they're around $15 so I think i'll just get them both to be safe, it's very annoying to remove the timing cover and all the related stuff. I'm NEVER using the little cam lock/holder holes again, i'm very positive this is what caused this. Thanks for the help guys, first K-swap/K engine so it's all new to me.

JRCivic1

Use the holes and cam pins to hold the camshaft timing marks at TDC... get your chain in place, lined up at all cam and crank marks, release the tensioner... and lastly, use a large adjustable wrench to rock one cam at a time SLIGHTLY to free the cam pin... and then the other cam. The pulse plate at the back of each camshaft has a built in keyway for proper indexing. If yours is spinning freely, and not making contact with the position sensor, something is bad wrong there and you are absolutely correct in inspecting deeper. Let us know what you find.