jdm_rb20

Like the title says, the build is:

h22a1 block (honed, alignbore checked ok)
h22a1 pistons (original to the block...size BBBB)
f22 crank (balanced, checked, cleaned)
f22 rods (cleaned and pressed onto h22a1 pistons)

This is my first engine build EVER and it is a "frankenstein" (mixed parts) build. PLEASE do not tell me google. I have the prelude service PDF and I have read the section several times. Google and the service PDF do not put it in layman's terms. Can someone please discuss this with me in LAYMAN's terms?

Because everything checked to be within specs, I ordered all standard size main and rod bearings. However, upon initial assembly (with everything assembly lubed), the crank binds in certain areas of rotation. It takes about 20lbs tq to spin it, and when it binds, it takes about 40lbs tq to move past the binds.

1) I am still confused after much searching about the rods having different coding for "big end bores". Does this mean that I should have ordered specific individual sizes for each rod? (page 7-20 in the service PDF manual)

2) If this is true, does that mean that different rod journals (on the crank) are slightly different diameters??

3) Do you base the bearing size on the tolerance number stamped on the side of the rod?



I haven't tapped the ends of the crank yet (because I got frustrated and left the shop before I broke something)...but I don't think tapping/settling will resolve 40lbs tq of binding... I am reviewing what I most likely failed to do correctly.

jdm_rb20

my next step is to take off the rod bearing caps, and check the crank mains for binding. If no binding on the mains, then attack one rod at a time and check for binding after each added piston... Please add some input if you already know why it is binding

ESP.net

Oil squirters are in the way?

gstrudler

I had this with an f23 crank and rods in my h22a4 block; I'm not sure that it's a problem on a dry block to be honest (but I'm not an expert by any stretch). Try to take note of when it happens and remember that it could be more than just bearings. If you have cylinders that are slightly tapered, it will be harder for the piston to move on one end. You also don't have any active oil lubrication, so it could be the piston rings in the cylinders dragging (especially when the pistons change direction) or a number of other things.

jdm_rb20

ESP, you are absolutely right, but I had already fixed those when I first spun the crank without pistons. The oil squirters have already been adjusted.

Here's what I just found when I took the rod caps off:

my rods are numbered.....

1.....1.....1.....1
2.....2.....2.....3 >>>timing belt side

And what do I find?? The bearing is the rod numbered "3" is grinding!!!! So, please explain: Do I get a bearing for a rod "big end bore" of 3?

Please bear with me, but I want to learn. I want to say I did it with my own blood, sweat, tears, and ten sets of bearings if needed...lol

EG1834

Did you check your bearing clearances?

snobordboy

First thing I would do is grab 2 $ worth of Plastigauge and see what you get that way. You should find the issue pretty easily.

jdm_rb20

I finally figured out how to read the bearing guide chart on page 7-11 in the FSM. I need to go out to my shop and check the crank to see what the "rod journal tolerances" are. Yes, I also need to go buy some plastigauge (and figure out how to use it.)

Today, I was too busy hauling my friend's projects to his new house, and I ended up buying his 1991 Civic hatch for $300. :D It runs good when it wants to...lol I just have to figure out why it has intermittent (fuel??) issues.

Maybe tomorrow I will get out there and play with the Accord's H22 bearing again?? Does anyone know what size matches each of the different bearing colors? I now know that the rod journal and rod "big end bore" markings will determine a color, but the plastigauge will give me a size.....so what are the sizes of each color (to confirm results)??

jdm_rb20

Ok...I am thoroughly confused by the chart but common sense tells me to use a smaller bearing. Here are my inputs:

Lettering on crank:
_C_B_C_C_
3_3_4_3_2

Here's my OD measurements of the crank journals:
flywheel > 50.02 >>>>>50.10>>>>>50.00>>>>>50.00>>>>>50.00>>>timin g

Here's my OD measurements of the rod journals:
flywheel >>>>>>48.08>>>>>48.04>>>>>48.05>>>>>>48.05>>>>>>>t iming

After putting the rod endcap back on the 2 rods closest to the timing side, my measurements show that they are oval-shaped: exactly 51.18 top>bottom AND exactly 50.6 side>side. Is this normal, and which number should I use in my calculation??

---------------------------------------------
quote:

Here is a chart of Honda B series bearing thickness by color. To calculate actual bearing clearance, use the following formula:

BC = IDBT – ODC – (2 x BT)

BC = bearing clearance
IDBT = inside diameter of bearing tunnel (housing bore)
ODC = outside diameter of crank journal
BT = bearing thickness

Main Bearing thickness by color
Blue 2.013-2.010 mm 0.0793”- 0.0791”
Black 2.010-2.007 mm 0.0791”- 0.0790”
Brown 2.007-2.004 mm 0.0790”- 0.0789”
Green 2.004-2.001 mm 0.0789”- 0.0788”
Yellow 2.001-1.998 mm 0.0788”- 0.0787”
Pink 1.998-1.995 mm 0.0787”- 0.0785”
Red 1.995-1.992 mm 0.0785”- 0.0783”

Rod bearing thickness by color
Blue 1.510-1.507 mm 0.0594”- 0.0593”
Black 1.507-1.504 mm 0.0593”- 0.0592”
Brown 1.504-1.501 mm 0.0592”- 0.0591”
Green 1.501-1.498 mm 0.0591”- 0.0590”
Yellow 1.498-1.495 mm 0.0590”- 0.0589”
Pink 1.495-1.492 mm 0.0589”- 0.0587”
Red 1.492-1.489 mm 0.0587”- 0.0586”
/end quote
----------------------------------------------------------------

jdm_rb20

when I am using the rod Inner Diameter should I use the smaller side/side or the larger top/bottom measurement?? Or should I just step to a smaller bearing? The top AND bottom bearing of that rod were scraped, so obviously I am going smaller. I just want to learn these calculations so I feel like I am learning something instead of just guessing or using plastiguage to tell me the answer.

EG1834

The bearings should be tighter top to bottom, not side to side. That's not good.

jdm_rb20

It was my first time with a micrometer, so maybe I need to take a 2nd attempt. The block and internals have all been honed, cleaned, balanced, alignbore-checked, etc by a professional machine shop. I am guessing it's more likely that I measured wrong instead of bad rods. Thanks for the info.

But if it is tighter top>bottom ideally, do I use the top>bottom for oilclearance and bearing calculations?

jdm_rb20

The rod on the far right (timing side) has the scraped rod bearing shown. Can anyone tell me anything by looking at the straight-line bearing scrape which is off-center? The scrape is the same on the rod cap bearing also. That is the rod stamped "3" but the other rods are stamped "2".



All along, since I first posted this, it is still blowing my mind: Why does the chart say "C-3" calls for a thicker bearing (brown) if the standard 1.5mm (green, I assume) bearing is scraping??????

jdm_rb20

pic posted for my last question...does the scrape damage on the far right rod bearing indicate any specific issue?

jdm_rb20

If anyone is still reading this, I have some results:

Green Plastigage rod results:

Flywheel>> _____.038______.038~.051______.038~.051_______???? ??

I didn't plastigage the rod closest to Timing, because I tried to lift the piston up and realized it was STUCK. So I tapped it out and found a broken solid oil ring.

Can I assume that a resisting piston would cause rod bearing damage? And where can I buy rings and bearings for a SINGLE cylinder?? Anyone have comments on my 3 plastigage clearances?

jdm_rb20

I'm getting frustrated trying to find legitimate color-coded OEM bearings. Can anyone tell me a good place to order specific color-coded bearings without going broke? Also, some input on the three rod plastigage results I just posted would be helpful so that I know those three rod bearings are acceptable.

EG1834

Not to be an ***, but think about that question for a minute. Why wouldn't you use the tighter measurement? If you want .002" and you've got it with the looser dimension, but the tighter dimension is .003" tighter...you see where I'm going?

jdm_rb20

Your math embarasses me. I am ashamed of myself for not realizing the impossibility of a NEGATIVE clearance. I understand now: negative clearance = no clearance; so I need to measure clearance top~bottom, which is the way I would've guessed coincidentally since you can't plastigage the side~side..lol

Anyway, do you have any input on the 3 rod clearances I posted? One rod was exactly .038, and the other 2 rods were between the two given measurements. I know they are within the acceptable service limit, but I want confirmation because this is my first time building a motor.

Also, I would feel more comfortable about spending more money continuing, because I have read that I am supposed to buy OEM color-coded bearing based on rod/journal size (example: "3C= yellow") BUTTTTTT these 3 standard size bearings appear to give acceptable results..(??)

I really think the 1 pair of rod bearings that are scraped are due to the broken oilring causing that piston to resist motion.