GSXR Throttle Bodies (a thread continuation)
10-07-2004, 06:23 PM
#52
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Re: (91' LS-VTEC)
heh tis a possibility Cesar 
and good news..
i got my beast started tonight..
i got it a year ago with no motor no fuel tank. completely stripped
one year later (tonight) i got it started..
dont have the throttle cable bracket done and brakes arent bled... and tranny needs oil... but at least it runs
i'm gonna be very busy sunday
and good news..
i got my beast started tonight.. i got it a year ago with no motor no fuel tank. completely stripped
one year later (tonight) i got it started..
dont have the throttle cable bracket done and brakes arent bled... and tranny needs oil... but at least it runs
i'm gonna be very busy sunday
10-07-2004, 08:02 PM
#54
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Re: (Speedz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Speedz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i got it a year ago with no motor no fuel tank. completely stripped
one year later (tonight) i got it started..
dont have the throttle cable bracket done and brakes arent bled... and tranny needs oil... but at least it runs</TD></TR></TABLE>
CONGRATS
Watching this project, keeps me motivated with mine.
-Cesar
i got it a year ago with no motor no fuel tank. completely stripped
one year later (tonight) i got it started..
dont have the throttle cable bracket done and brakes arent bled... and tranny needs oil... but at least it runs
</TD></TR></TABLE>CONGRATS
Watching this project, keeps me motivated with mine. -Cesar
10-07-2004, 09:16 PM
#55
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Re: (91' LS-VTEC)
OK, I'm just curious about a few questions...
1st: Is there a down side to using the Gixxer's injector location? I haven't looked at the Gixxer head set-up very closely to see if the injectors 'aim' at the intake valves or not, but it was my understanding that that was the "preferred" direction to have the injectors' squirt aiming. Why wouldn't you use the factory bosses on the original Honda IM? Maybe I'm missing something but Honda injectors or bigger RC's would seal to the injector and hook up to the factory harness, no prob, right???
2nd: What are you doing doing for air filters. Are you planning on getting individual K&N's (like on a bike, the #4 cyl looks really close the booster for a K&N...)), or fabing up some sort of filter box to go around them?
3rd: I am roughly familar with the Hemholtz tuning effect, and it looks like the runners lengths are really long for high(er) rpm tuning. Again, I haven't done the calc's in a while, but I would think the roughly 12" (9" to the flange and another 3" in the head) runners would be tuned for around 6,000 rpm as opposed to 7-8k which is B-series territory.
Other than those questions, which may be non-issues, I think the set-up looks great!!! I am interested to see how it pulls on the dyno, and would be willing to shell out some money and some time to create some of these on my own... I hope the Gixxer crowd doesn't start jacking the prices up on these... 
1st: Is there a down side to using the Gixxer's injector location? I haven't looked at the Gixxer head set-up very closely to see if the injectors 'aim' at the intake valves or not, but it was my understanding that that was the "preferred" direction to have the injectors' squirt aiming. Why wouldn't you use the factory bosses on the original Honda IM? Maybe I'm missing something but Honda injectors or bigger RC's would seal to the injector and hook up to the factory harness, no prob, right???
2nd: What are you doing doing for air filters. Are you planning on getting individual K&N's (like on a bike, the #4 cyl looks really close the booster for a K&N...)), or fabing up some sort of filter box to go around them?
3rd: I am roughly familar with the Hemholtz tuning effect, and it looks like the runners lengths are really long for high(er) rpm tuning. Again, I haven't done the calc's in a while, but I would think the roughly 12" (9" to the flange and another 3" in the head) runners would be tuned for around 6,000 rpm as opposed to 7-8k which is B-series territory.
Other than those questions, which may be non-issues, I think the set-up looks great!!!
I am interested to see how it pulls on the dyno, and would be willing to shell out some money and some time to create some of these on my own... I hope the Gixxer crowd doesn't start jacking the prices up on these...
10-08-2004, 07:35 AM
#56
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Re: (DOHCsideracing)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DOHCsideracing »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OK, I'm just curious about a few questions...
1st: Is there a down side to using the Gixxer's injector location? I haven't looked at the Gixxer head set-up very closely to see if the injectors 'aim' at the intake valves or not, but it was my understanding that that was the "preferred" direction to have the injectors' squirt aiming. Why wouldn't you use the factory bosses on the original Honda IM? Maybe I'm missing something but Honda injectors or bigger RC's would seal to the injector and hook up to the factory harness, no prob, right???</TD></TR></TABLE>
Advantage of using the injector locations on the ITB's is that moving the injector further upstream will allow for better fuel atomization. However as you noted, the injector will not be pointing directly at the valve. So it is a tradeoff. Also the GSX ITBs look like they have a pretty steep angle on the injectors. The CBR ITBs have a much shallower angle which may work better when using the iTB's injector locations.
On a side note, some setups like the CBR600RR have 2 sets of injectors, one in the ITB, and another outside of the air horn (before the throttle body) that engages at high rpms. Some setups even have injectors facing backwards so they spray against the incoming air for improved atomization.
1st: Is there a down side to using the Gixxer's injector location? I haven't looked at the Gixxer head set-up very closely to see if the injectors 'aim' at the intake valves or not, but it was my understanding that that was the "preferred" direction to have the injectors' squirt aiming. Why wouldn't you use the factory bosses on the original Honda IM? Maybe I'm missing something but Honda injectors or bigger RC's would seal to the injector and hook up to the factory harness, no prob, right???</TD></TR></TABLE>
Advantage of using the injector locations on the ITB's is that moving the injector further upstream will allow for better fuel atomization. However as you noted, the injector will not be pointing directly at the valve. So it is a tradeoff. Also the GSX ITBs look like they have a pretty steep angle on the injectors. The CBR ITBs have a much shallower angle which may work better when using the iTB's injector locations.
On a side note, some setups like the CBR600RR have 2 sets of injectors, one in the ITB, and another outside of the air horn (before the throttle body) that engages at high rpms. Some setups even have injectors facing backwards so they spray against the incoming air for improved atomization.
10-08-2004, 03:28 PM
#57
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Re: (kommon_sense)
do you guys feel the gsxr is the easiest set up to rig?? itbs r my winter project, and i want the ones that will give me the least headache for a GSR.
10-08-2004, 05:31 PM
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I'm working on a setup for a '91 integra rs with the b18a1, and according to http://www.bgsoflex.com/cgi-bin/intakeln?length=21 I need a 21" from the face of the valve to the end of the velocity stack. Unfortunately there is only 17 inches from the face of the valve to the firewall. According to hearsay to get proper clearence for the stacks I need 4" clearence between the stacks and the firewall (1.5 times the diameter of the mouth of the velocity stack), leaving me a lenght of 13" for my runners and putting my peak way outside of my redlinehttp://www.bgsoflex.com/cgi-bin/intakeln?length=13.
So as solution I though of gently curving the runners downwards towards the rear crossmember, which would allow me to get the 21" length and the required 4" of space to allow unimpeded flow of air. The only problem I have with this is the not knowing if this is going to put the stacks in a low pressure area which may decrease their performance.
Any comment as to wether or not this is a bad way to place the runners?
So as solution I though of gently curving the runners downwards towards the rear crossmember, which would allow me to get the 21" length and the required 4" of space to allow unimpeded flow of air. The only problem I have with this is the not knowing if this is going to put the stacks in a low pressure area which may decrease their performance.
Any comment as to wether or not this is a bad way to place the runners?
10-08-2004, 07:49 PM
#59
Re: (Stubbs)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stubbs »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm working on a setup for a '91 integra rs with the b18a1, and according to http://www.bgsoflex.com/cgi-bin/intakeln?length=21 I need a 21" from the face of the valve to the end of the velocity stack. Unfortunately there is only 17 inches from the face of the valve to the firewall. According to hearsay to get proper clearence for the stacks I need 4" clearence between the stacks and the firewall (1.5 times the diameter of the mouth of the velocity stack), leaving me a lenght of 13" for my runners and putting my peak way outside of my redlinehttp://www.bgsoflex.com/cgi-bin/intakeln?length=13.
So as solution I though of gently curving the runners downwards towards the rear crossmember, which would allow me to get the 21" length and the required 4" of space to allow unimpeded flow of air. The only problem I have with this is the not knowing if this is going to put the stacks in a low pressure area which may decrease their performance.
Any comment as to wether or not this is a bad way to place the runners?</TD></TR></TABLE>
21" is roadkill for a fast reving b-series. why are you taking data that is not even known to be tested on Honda engines?
So as solution I though of gently curving the runners downwards towards the rear crossmember, which would allow me to get the 21" length and the required 4" of space to allow unimpeded flow of air. The only problem I have with this is the not knowing if this is going to put the stacks in a low pressure area which may decrease their performance.
Any comment as to wether or not this is a bad way to place the runners?</TD></TR></TABLE>
21" is roadkill for a fast reving b-series. why are you taking data that is not even known to be tested on Honda engines?
10-08-2004, 08:08 PM
#60
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That's using the calculator that was posted in the other gsx-r itb thread. If there is a better way to figure out the runner length let me know 'cause I'd like to use that, but this is the only thing I have to go on.
As for high revving, I'm not gonna be going above the stock fuel cut which is 6800.
As for high revving, I'm not gonna be going above the stock fuel cut which is 6800.
10-08-2004, 08:38 PM
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Re: (Stubbs)
my overall length is 11.5" from head to end of stack... so that makes approx 14.5 inches from stack end to valve face.
we'll see how it ends up working on this motor (which is bone stock gsr, including exhaust manifold)
eventually i'll get my other gsr head done and my m24 cams in.. thats when i hope to see some nice #s
also, gsxr itbs are easiest to space and such.. but as far as TPS.. its a pain.. hopefully when my converter is done.. that'll make it easier for others as i'll share how i built the converter.
we'll see how it ends up working on this motor (which is bone stock gsr, including exhaust manifold)
eventually i'll get my other gsr head done and my m24 cams in.. thats when i hope to see some nice #s
also, gsxr itbs are easiest to space and such.. but as far as TPS.. its a pain.. hopefully when my converter is done.. that'll make it easier for others as i'll share how i built the converter.
10-09-2004, 11:27 AM
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Re: (thad)
these are some custom velocity stacks.. they just happen to fit my application.. i can cut them down shorter.. but i wanna give them a try at this length befor i go shortening them.. its easy to cut off and make look good than add to by welding...
i honestly cant say whether theres an advantage to being longer or shorter other than the Hemholtz ram effect and some say that it doesnt work for itbs.. so i'll be testing the theory
i honestly cant say whether theres an advantage to being longer or shorter other than the Hemholtz ram effect and some say that it doesnt work for itbs.. so i'll be testing the theory
10-09-2004, 11:01 PM
#66
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ive got some com-plete and half *** tuned itbs on my accord ...here the site
http://machine.unknownsoldiers.us/
there gsxr using the gsxr inj local
on h22
http://machine.unknownsoldiers.us/
there gsxr using the gsxr inj local
on h22
10-10-2004, 01:54 AM
#67
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Re: (Speedz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Speedz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i honestly cant say whether theres an advantage to being longer or shorter other than the Hemholtz ram effect and some say that it doesnt work for itbs.. so i'll be testing the theory </TD></TR></TABLE>
I *think* that you will have to have some sort of filter/sock on the stack to have any hope of reflecting the wave/pulse to take advantage of the ram effect. If the ITBs are open, then there really isn't anything for the wave/pulse to reflect off of
</TD></TR></TABLE>I *think* that you will have to have some sort of filter/sock on the stack to have any hope of reflecting the wave/pulse to take advantage of the ram effect. If the ITBs are open, then there really isn't anything for the wave/pulse to reflect off of
10-10-2004, 07:17 PM
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Re: (kommon_sense)
welp i can say this:
i've got a huge smile on my face :D
drove my race hatch for the first time...
i've got BFG drag radials on it.. they seem like bald stocker tires LOL
i've got traction issues LOL
only mods to the motor are an Action 6 puck sprung clutch and ClutchMasters 7.5 lbs flywheel, and my ITBs.. (i'm still running stock gsr exhaust manifold with glass pack on the end of it)
the thing revs so dang fast u cant tell when it goes into vtec
it was just about dark when i finally got it all done and chip and ecu in the car.
i only took it for a spin around the block.. got on it in 2nd .... pretty damn loud..
parked it for the night.. cant wait to do some more testing tomorrow..
i've also gotta finnish my vaccum log and drill the runners for some lines to go to vaccum log for my brake booster.. brakes were a lil scarey for me.. gotta have the booster
anyway, i'll get some pics tomorrow of the running setup.. i'm using a stock gsr fuel rail till i get the rest of my components for my custom rail to hook up to stock fuel filter..
i've got a huge smile on my face :D
drove my race hatch for the first time...
i've got BFG drag radials on it.. they seem like bald stocker tires LOL
i've got traction issues LOL
only mods to the motor are an Action 6 puck sprung clutch and ClutchMasters 7.5 lbs flywheel, and my ITBs.. (i'm still running stock gsr exhaust manifold with glass pack on the end of it)
the thing revs so dang fast u cant tell when it goes into vtec
it was just about dark when i finally got it all done and chip and ecu in the car.
i only took it for a spin around the block.. got on it in 2nd .... pretty damn loud..
parked it for the night.. cant wait to do some more testing tomorrow..
i've also gotta finnish my vaccum log and drill the runners for some lines to go to vaccum log for my brake booster.. brakes were a lil scarey for me.. gotta have the booster
anyway, i'll get some pics tomorrow of the running setup.. i'm using a stock gsr fuel rail till i get the rest of my components for my custom rail to hook up to stock fuel filter..
10-11-2004, 05:45 AM
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Re: (gldndrgn14)
well as of right now i'm running an experimental rom that fixes it in the ecu rom coding.. instead of any hardware type fixes....
i'm going to still persue the Op Amp circuit to convert suzuki tps output to honda ecu input.. for those of you who dont have the ability to chip and mod ecu's
i'm going to still persue the Op Amp circuit to convert suzuki tps output to honda ecu input.. for those of you who dont have the ability to chip and mod ecu's
10-11-2004, 07:42 AM
#71
Re: (Speedz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Speedz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'm going to still persue the Op Amp circuit to convert suzuki tps output to honda ecu input.. for those of you who dont have the ability to chip and mod ecu's
</TD></TR></TABLE>
what are you using for this? any progress yet?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
what are you using for this? any progress yet?
10-11-2004, 07:17 PM
#72
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Re: (Speedz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Speedz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well as of right now i'm running an experimental rom that fixes it in the ecu rom coding.. instead of any hardware type fixes....
</TD></TR></TABLE>
the changes we made in the rom allow the ecu to use the suzuki tps output
among alot of other changes as well.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
the changes we made in the rom allow the ecu to use the suzuki tps output
among alot of other changes as well.
10-18-2004, 09:54 PM
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Re: (91' LS-VTEC)
got it running a bit better.. still need to get a wideband o2 and do some major tuning
gotta buy a wheel bearing now passenger side front bearing is shot
if it aint one thing its another
gotta buy a wheel bearing now
passenger side front bearing is shotif it aint one thing its another
