The Fight Against Ignorance in the All Motor Forum - I see some hope.
 

The Fight Against Ignorance in the All Motor Forum- I see some hope/progress

I've seen some posts by people here that give me hope.

1. I see people estimating the amount of cam retard given the amount that head is milled and the diameter of the cam gear (not the end all method but is better than nothing). https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

2. I also don't see people runing 13.5:1 anymore on pump gas. That was a myth. Don't let some trick you into doing that. Yes you can do that in a lab with a motor with a 1" bore but not in what we have available today for our motors. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emthdown.gif https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emthdown.gif

3. Now I need to get people to understand ain't no way you are going to get 315+cfm out of a useable BVTEC head with 33.00mm valves. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emthdown.gif https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emthdown.gif

4. The mathmatical defintion of expected value is the value that is most likely to occur. In most cases this is the same as the "Average". So when people expect 200whp from their 11.5CR 1.8L that is not realistic. Because the average hp that I've seen for 1.8L is more around 185whp. So to get 200whp is very good and well above the average. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Cosworth Engineering https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Re: The Fight Against Ignorance in the All Motor Forum - I see some hope. (Don Lackey)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Don Lackey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The Fight Against Ignorance in the All Motor Forum- I see some hope/progress

I've seen some posts by people here that give me hope.

1. I see people estimating the amount of cam retard given the amount that head is milled and the diameter of the cam gear (not the end all method but is better than nothing). https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

2. I also don't see people runing 13.5:1 anymore on pump gas. That was a myth. Don't let some trick you into doing that. Yes you can do that in a lab with a motor with a 1" bore but not in what we have available today for our motors. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emthdown.gif https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emthdown.gif

3. Now I need to get people to understand ain't no way you are going to get 315+cfm out of a useable BVTEC head with 33.00mm valves. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emthdown.gif https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emthdown.gif

4. The mathmatical defintion of expected value is the value that is most likely to occur. In most cases this is the same as the "Average". So when people expect 200whp from their 11.5CR 1.8L that is not realistic. Because the average hp that I've seen for 1.8L is more around 185whp. So to get 200whp is very good and well above the average. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Cosworth Engineering https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif </TD></TR></TABLE>

I see someone's seen my posts about the "War on the Spread of Honda-Tech Misinformation"? https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emwink.gif

I strongly agree with your fourth statement. Alot of people think since 1 out of 10 1.8 liter builds make 200whp, their dream build HAS to.

Don's Lackey Engineering https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

...https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emwink.gif

- Derek

Re: The Fight Against Ignorance in the All Motor Forum - I see some hope. (D-Rob)
 

Well, technically you can run 13.5 CR on pump gas. Since E85 is pimp gas for some of us.

Re: The Fight Against Ignorance in the All Motor Forum - I see some hope. (Don Lackey)
 

I got a chipped ECU off ebay that lets me rev to 11k!!!1!

Re: The Fight Against Ignorance in the All Motor Forum - I see some hope. (Televator)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Televator &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I got a chipped ECU off ebay that lets me rev to 11k!!!1!</TD></TR></TABLE>


spoom or mugen? https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emsmileo.gif chipped p28 + dinnan ebay ecu FTW! https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emsmilep.gif

Re: The Fight Against Ignorance in the All Motor Forum - I see some hope. (Televator)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Televator &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I got a chipped ECU off ebay that lets me rev to 11k!!!1!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Must be the mugen chip right? sweet

Re: The Fight Against Ignorance in the All Motor Forum - I see some hope. (Mr.RHTuner)
 

i wouldn't say people expect 200whp. but they shoot for 200whp.

although, i do talk to a lot of newbies sometimes and they're like "yeah 210 whp....dc header 4-1!!"

Re: The Fight Against Ignorance in the All Motor Forum - I see some hope. (RedEj8)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RedEj8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Must be the mugen chip right? sweet</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh yeah, never mind the flow characteristics and durability of my setup. More revs equals more power for sure right? https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emsmilep.gif Later on poor Johnny street racer blows his H22 and then comes to the prelude forum complaining about the H series being unreliable...LOL!

Re: The Fight Against Ignorance in the All Motor Forum - I see some hope. (dinko)
 

I agree with the above...I'm spending a lot a doing a lot of research...There's no reason I can't make 200 my goal and strive for it...But I'm realistic...I'm preparing myself mentally for a 170whp dynosheet.

Re: The Fight Against Ignorance in the All Motor Forum - I see some hope. (dinko)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dinko &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i wouldn't say people expect 200whp. but they shoot for 200whp.

although, i do talk to a lot of newbies sometimes and they're like "yeah 210 whp....dc header 4-1!!" </TD></TR></TABLE>

I wouldn't be so quick to say anything too general about guys using the DC 4-1 header. I was absolutely shocked last summer when I saw a high 10 sec. AM race car from Montreal Quebec, using a ceramic DC 4-1 header. But, I do agree with you that some newbies have alot to learn when it comes to making 200 whp AM.

Re: The Fight Against Ignorance in the All Motor Forum - I see some hope. (Don Lackey)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Don Lackey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
4. The mathmatical defintion of expected value is the value that is most likely to occur. In most cases this is the same as the "Average". So when people expect 200whp from their 11.5CR 1.8L that is not realistic. Because the average hp that I've seen for 1.8L is more around 185whp. So to get 200whp is very good and well above the average. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif
</TD></TR></TABLE>

We made 237hp dynapack with a 12:1, 1.8L on pump gas. So are you saying that those numbers are SUPER good then? I know its not 11.5:1, but close enough.

Re: The Fight Against Ignorance in the All Motor Forum - I see some hope. (exospeedAMcrx)
 

Is that on Churches dyno? We had a 1734cc motor make 235+whp there with 10.6CR. Is that good? Yes. Is that number more satisfying than the actual performance, probably to most yes.

I hate dynapack numbers. They are all over the place.

Re: The Fight Against Ignorance in the All Motor Forum - I see some hope. (Don Lackey)
 

yeah, I was just looking at the thread about the K20 dyno where they got 245hp on a dynapack. but theres almost no frictional losses compared to being strapped down and I dont know exactly how a K20 tranny is geared but I'm going to guess 4th gear isnt exactly 1:1 . Thats like engine dyno numbers pretty much.

Re: The Fight Against Ignorance in the All Motor Forum - I see some hope. (Don Lackey)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Don Lackey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I hate dynapack numbers. They are all over the place.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Dynapack to dynapack, or consitancy vs itself?

Re: The Fight Against Ignorance in the All Motor Forum - I see some hope. (Combustion Contraption)
 

From one dyno/operator to the next.

Obviously on the same machine when the motor and tranny are operating with at a constant temp that numbers won't vary much unless the motor is breaking in out just plain "breaking."

I know they wont vary much, but the Dynapack company uses their product's consistancy from run to run over other brands as a selling point. Of course, now we're back to impact biases right? https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emsmilep.gif

Lol the fight against ignorance...thats going to be an uphill battle.

Re: The Fight Against Ignorance in the All Motor Forum - I see some hope. (Don Lackey)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Don Lackey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is that on Churches dyno? We had a 1734cc motor make 235+whp there with 10.6CR. Is that good? Yes. Is that number more satisfying than the actual performance, probably to most yes.

I hate dynapack numbers. They are all over the place.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ya that was on Church's, then we dynoed at another place Dynojet, made 209hp. Not bad for a sunday street car. 12.90s in a full interior EG coupe.

Re: The Fight Against Ignorance in the All Motor Forum - I see some hope. (exospeedAMcrx)
 

I really think that 200whp is doable. I have done it on a stock b18c1 block with about 100k miles on it. The only work was done to the head, wich includes port & polish, flat face valves, dual valve springs, ti retainers, jun3 cams, cam gears still set at 0 deg. The big boost in power came from an equal lenght header built for that specific motor. And that was on 92 octane pump gas.

Here is the dyno

http://www.advancedstreetperformance...no_headers.jpg

Heres my thing. Though I understand clearly where your comming from, many people start right here and know no better.

Everyone has thoughts of building a motor, not everyone has a CNC to try new things on, not everyone can sit down and port a motor (or have a spare head to try to port on) and not everyone wants to or has the money to take a motor to someone and plop it in front of them to build for them. I have learned alot from posting stupid shit, search my SN on here....ive gained lot from asking stupid questions, and honestly, the only stupid question is the one not asked...

Bottom line, if your gonna be retarded about responding, just keep your fingers to yourself and not post anything on the comment. 9 times out of 10 when smoeone says 'what should I expect' and no one responds on it, the thread dies...or how about MODERATION where they just get locked or delted...

just my $.02

Re: (junkyard racer)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by junkyard racer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Heres my thing. Though I understand clearly where your comming from, many people start right here and know no better.

Everyone has thoughts of building a motor, not everyone has a CNC to try new things on, not everyone can sit down and port a motor (or have a spare head to try to port on) and not everyone wants to or has the money to take a motor to someone and plop it in front of them to build for them. I have learned alot from posting stupid shit, search my SN on here....ive gained lot from asking stupid questions, and honestly, the only stupid question is the one not asked...

Bottom line, if your gonna be retarded about responding, just keep your fingers to yourself and not post anything on the comment. 9 times out of 10 when smoeone says 'what should I expect' and no one responds on it, the thread dies...or how about MODERATION where they just get locked or delted...

just my $.02 </TD></TR></TABLE>The people who stay on honda-tech are the ones who truly dont want to learn. Trust me i know. Honda-tech has definatly taught me alot, but there gets to a point where it isnt enough and you must do your own research to get your own anwsers and not wait till a don lackey thread pops up so you can learn.

As a struggling college studen i know that some people dont have the money in order to learn on a 500 dollar head or something like that. But i guess that is what seprates the boys from the Men. But i do agree something has to be done about the guess my hp threads and the infamous cams/header threads.

Re: (Professor15)
 

I really think the best way to deal with something like this is for people to
understand thier place. First and foremost, this forum always intimidated me
because I knew the people in here were serious racers. That was back in
'03 when I thought I knew a thing or two. Now, having seen a bit more I
took a step back and realized that most people here will answer a question
if asked respectfully. That tends to bring the heat level down. I also think
that its good to share and package information so that people on various
levels once realized can access different levels of information. I.E. a
"vouche" format where certain people are allowed to post in certain areas
are shown ways to qualify based on participation. I know that would opt
me out of some things, however we all have our respective talents and
abilities. It is what it is, just my thought on it. I'm just a guy who loves
his Integra and wants to know ways to make more power, not to mention
see what the other guys out there are doing with Hondas. That part has
not lost its fun for me https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Re: The Fight Against Ignorance in the All Motor Forum - I see some hope. (Don Lackey)
 

I dont know.. I built a 1.8 that made 214 whp on stock jdm pistons.. But the head was hand ported by Don Lackey himself, the header was by Rmf and the cr was in the mid 12's. I preech all the time on how hard t is to make 250 whp, but everyone who has copied my setup over the years cant quite do it. Well theres a ton of stuff besides picking out parts when building a motor. The actual assembly and machining of a motor is where the difference of a 230 motor and a 250 come into play.

Re: The Fight Against Ignorance in the All Motor Forum - I see some hope. (Tbone)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tbone &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dont know.. I built a 1.8 that made 214 whp on stock jdm pistons.. But the head was hand ported by Don Lackey himself, the header was by Rmf and the cr was in the mid 12's. I preech all the time on how hard t is to make 250 whp, but everyone who has copied my setup over the years cant quite do it. Well theres a ton of stuff besides picking out parts when building a motor. The actual assembly and machining of a motor is where the difference of a 230 motor and a 250 come into play.</TD></TR></TABLE>An engine builder/friend of mine always stresses that "There is a difference between Andy the Assembler and Bob the builder" and i believe you brought up a good example of that https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

people just toss the "200" number around wayy too much in here. No matter what build it is, they want 200. N/A cost money. Your shit isn't making 200 on stock valvetrain and a JDMshit header.