Dry Sump
#6
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Re: Dry Sump (spun Vtec)
A friend of mines dad actually was on a bmw race team back in the 90s. He said on their race cars they gained around 30whp. It not only keeps the oil pan oilless therefore reducing drag on the crank it also creats a vacumm in the oil pan therefore the crank turning doesnt even have air to have to cut though. Its minimal gains with the air but its a sideffect of running dry sump in the first place.
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Re: Dry Sump (lude98SH)
I know a few b series guys who have run them. All of the lost power when running it in conjunction with their vac pump.
Reason being the tq on the b is so low to begin with, the frictional losses from the extra accessory running of the crank via the belt over comes a power gain.
we will be switching to this setup on our race car since we already run an external oil pump and have the frictional loss anyway..lol
Reason being the tq on the b is so low to begin with, the frictional losses from the extra accessory running of the crank via the belt over comes a power gain.
we will be switching to this setup on our race car since we already run an external oil pump and have the frictional loss anyway..lol
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Re: Dry Sump (lude98SH)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lude98SH »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A friend of mines dad actually was on a bmw race team back in the 90s. He said on their race cars they gained around 30whp. It not only keeps the oil pan oilless therefore reducing drag on the crank it also creats a vacumm in the oil pan therefore the crank turning doesnt even have air to have to cut though. Its minimal gains with the air but its a sideffect of running dry sump in the first place. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I work for bimmerworld (world challange touring car) off and on.
I work for bimmerworld (world challange touring car) off and on.
#11
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Re: Dry Sump (spun Vtec)
If you do not "oversize" the pump, which most do because they just get one foe a Chevy V-8. The gains are about 5%-8% depending how bad your old system was. The advantage in road Racing is that you will never starve the pick-up under cornering, braking and you can carry more oil to keep temps constant. Fuel drag racers use them because they pass so much fuel past the rings it dilutes the oil and they can just drain the dry-sump tank after each run.
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Re: Dry Sump (DonF)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DonF »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you do not "oversize" the pump, which most do because they just get one foe a Chevy V-8. The gains are about 5%-8% depending how bad your old system was. The advantage in road Racing is that you will never starve the pick-up under cornering, braking and you can carry more oil to keep temps constant. Fuel drag racers use them because they pass so much fuel past the rings it dilutes the oil and they can just drain the dry-sump tank after each run.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think road racers also run them because they eliminate the oil pan, and therefore the motor can be mounted lower in the car. That is why I would run one, anyway...
I think road racers also run them because they eliminate the oil pan, and therefore the motor can be mounted lower in the car. That is why I would run one, anyway...
#13
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Re: Dry Sump (MatHadder)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MatHadder »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think road racers also run them because they eliminate the oil pan, and therefore the motor can be mounted lower in the car. That is why I would run one, anyway...</TD></TR></TABLE>
i dont think it would completely eliminate the pan. you can just run a much lower profile pan.
I think road racers also run them because they eliminate the oil pan, and therefore the motor can be mounted lower in the car. That is why I would run one, anyway...</TD></TR></TABLE>
i dont think it would completely eliminate the pan. you can just run a much lower profile pan.
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Re: Dry Sump (Tbone)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tbone »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know a few b series guys who have run them. All of the lost power when running it in conjunction with their vac pump.
Reason being the tq on the b is so low to begin with, the frictional losses from the extra accessory running of the crank via the belt over comes a power gain.
we will be switching to this setup on our race car since we already run an external oil pump and have the frictional loss anyway..lol</TD></TR></TABLE>Even to give up a few HP for extreme cornering loads wouldn't this still be bit better then say a baffled oil pain?
I'm more thinking for safety in a slick and high classed auto X car.
Dry sump systems are cool, but with what i've read not too much a reason to do with Hondas, esp to free a few HP up.
I've been dicking around with a dry sump for my ls1 though
Reason being the tq on the b is so low to begin with, the frictional losses from the extra accessory running of the crank via the belt over comes a power gain.
we will be switching to this setup on our race car since we already run an external oil pump and have the frictional loss anyway..lol</TD></TR></TABLE>Even to give up a few HP for extreme cornering loads wouldn't this still be bit better then say a baffled oil pain?
I'm more thinking for safety in a slick and high classed auto X car.
Dry sump systems are cool, but with what i've read not too much a reason to do with Hondas, esp to free a few HP up.
I've been dicking around with a dry sump for my ls1 though
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Re: Dry Sump (doood)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by doood »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i dont think it would completely eliminate the pan. you can just run a much lower profile pan.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, that would depend on the motor. On a Kawasaki ZX6r motor, for instance, it allows you to run a flat plate, which is basically eliminating the oil pan. On a honda, on the other hand, the crank and girdle usually hang below the oil pan sealing surface, so you wouldnt be able to do this.
i dont think it would completely eliminate the pan. you can just run a much lower profile pan.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, that would depend on the motor. On a Kawasaki ZX6r motor, for instance, it allows you to run a flat plate, which is basically eliminating the oil pan. On a honda, on the other hand, the crank and girdle usually hang below the oil pan sealing surface, so you wouldnt be able to do this.
#16
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Re: Dry Sump (Max The Amazing)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MatHadder »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Well, that would depend on the motor. On a Kawasaki ZX6r motor, for instance, it allows you to run a flat plate, which is basically eliminating the oil pan. On a honda, on the other hand, the crank and girdle usually hang below the oil pan sealing surface, so you wouldnt be able to do this.</TD></TR></TABLE>
gotcha
Well, that would depend on the motor. On a Kawasaki ZX6r motor, for instance, it allows you to run a flat plate, which is basically eliminating the oil pan. On a honda, on the other hand, the crank and girdle usually hang below the oil pan sealing surface, so you wouldnt be able to do this.</TD></TR></TABLE>
gotcha
#17
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Re: Dry Sump (MatHadder)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MatHadder »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Well, that would depend on the motor. On a Kawasaki ZX6r motor, for instance, it allows you to run a flat plate, which is basically eliminating the oil pan. On a honda, on the other hand, the crank and girdle usually hang below the oil pan sealing surface, so you wouldnt be able to do this.</TD></TR></TABLE> It would still be shorter than a stock pan, as it only needs to hold 1 qt. of oil, theirfore better ground clearance.
Well, that would depend on the motor. On a Kawasaki ZX6r motor, for instance, it allows you to run a flat plate, which is basically eliminating the oil pan. On a honda, on the other hand, the crank and girdle usually hang below the oil pan sealing surface, so you wouldnt be able to do this.</TD></TR></TABLE> It would still be shorter than a stock pan, as it only needs to hold 1 qt. of oil, theirfore better ground clearance.
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Re: Dry Sump (DonF)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DonF »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> It would still be shorter than a stock pan, as it only needs to hold 1 qt. of oil, theirfore better ground clearance. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Assuming you went through the trouble of making custom motor mounts that sit the motor lower. The other problem I see with doing this on a honda is that the flywheel sits almost as low as the bottom of the oil pan, so you would need to run a smaller flywheel or something, and modify the bell housing to allow the motor to sit lower. Also, I am pretty sure the axle angles would end up being pretty terrible.
Assuming you went through the trouble of making custom motor mounts that sit the motor lower. The other problem I see with doing this on a honda is that the flywheel sits almost as low as the bottom of the oil pan, so you would need to run a smaller flywheel or something, and modify the bell housing to allow the motor to sit lower. Also, I am pretty sure the axle angles would end up being pretty terrible.
#21
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Re: Dry Sump (Aquafina)
Every dry sump mfg I have talked to said that those shallow pans are rubbish and that you want a 55 gallon drum under your motor if it will fit
Here is my pan. Flame away.
Here is my pan. Flame away.
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Re: Dry Sump (4piston)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4piston »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Every dry sump mfg I have talked to said that those shallow pans are rubbish and that you want a 55 gallon drum under your motor if it will fit
Here is my pan. Flame away.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Here is my pan. Flame away.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
#23
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Re: Dry Sump (4piston)
Sorry, I keep thinking about race cars, where designers want a lower center of gravity for handeling. It also keeps the roll-center lower to prevent "jacking" and having to use to much spring. But, if your engine is 3 ft off the ground, then a 2ft. oil pan is good.The 1 quart of oil in the pan is then 2ft. from the crank.
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Re: Dry Sump (4piston)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4piston »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Every dry sump mfg I have talked to said that those shallow pans are rubbish and that you want a 55 gallon drum under your motor if it will fit
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, in a car with a center of gravity below 10" with a driver, fitting a 55 gallon drum becomes difficult...
The flat plate was difficult to keep sealed, but it seemed to work pretty well, even with less than optimal pickups. It is really hard to get data on how well it is actually working while the car is driving, but we never had the motor sieze, and I seem to remember datalogging oil pressure and not seeing anything scary.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4piston »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here is my pan. Flame away. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Does that have five drain plugs..?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, in a car with a center of gravity below 10" with a driver, fitting a 55 gallon drum becomes difficult...
The flat plate was difficult to keep sealed, but it seemed to work pretty well, even with less than optimal pickups. It is really hard to get data on how well it is actually working while the car is driving, but we never had the motor sieze, and I seem to remember datalogging oil pressure and not seeing anything scary.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4piston »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here is my pan. Flame away. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Does that have five drain plugs..?