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Dry Sump

Old 02-17-2007, 05:23 PM
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Default Dry Sump

Is anyone on here running it ?
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Old 02-17-2007, 05:29 PM
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Default Re: Dry Sump (lude98SH)

Most of the pro all motor cars are running them.
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Old 02-17-2007, 06:12 PM
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Default Re: Dry Sump (4piston)

what kind of gains would say a 250 whp na bseries get from going dry? (aprox guess)
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Old 02-17-2007, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Dry Sump (spun Vtec)

I hope more than the disappointment I get when you mom goes dry.............Oh snap no he didn't.
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Old 02-17-2007, 06:30 PM
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Default Re: Dry Sump (Natural Aspirations)

haha ive heard that you gain 20whp from running KY jelly instead of oil in a dry app.
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Old 02-17-2007, 09:12 PM
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Default Re: Dry Sump (spun Vtec)

A friend of mines dad actually was on a bmw race team back in the 90s. He said on their race cars they gained around 30whp. It not only keeps the oil pan oilless therefore reducing drag on the crank it also creats a vacumm in the oil pan therefore the crank turning doesnt even have air to have to cut though. Its minimal gains with the air but its a sideffect of running dry sump in the first place.
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Old 02-17-2007, 09:57 PM
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Default Re: Dry Sump (lude98SH)

were do you get a dry sump conversion?
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Old 02-17-2007, 10:13 PM
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Old 02-18-2007, 05:22 AM
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Default Re: Dry Sump (lude98SH)

I know a few b series guys who have run them. All of the lost power when running it in conjunction with their vac pump.
Reason being the tq on the b is so low to begin with, the frictional losses from the extra accessory running of the crank via the belt over comes a power gain.
we will be switching to this setup on our race car since we already run an external oil pump and have the frictional loss anyway..lol
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Old 02-18-2007, 08:12 AM
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Default Re: Dry Sump (lude98SH)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lude98SH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A friend of mines dad actually was on a bmw race team back in the 90s. He said on their race cars they gained around 30whp. It not only keeps the oil pan oilless therefore reducing drag on the crank it also creats a vacumm in the oil pan therefore the crank turning doesnt even have air to have to cut though. Its minimal gains with the air but its a sideffect of running dry sump in the first place. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I work for bimmerworld (world challange touring car) off and on.
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Old 02-18-2007, 10:18 AM
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Default Re: Dry Sump (spun Vtec)

If you do not "oversize" the pump, which most do because they just get one foe a Chevy V-8. The gains are about 5%-8% depending how bad your old system was. The advantage in road Racing is that you will never starve the pick-up under cornering, braking and you can carry more oil to keep temps constant. Fuel drag racers use them because they pass so much fuel past the rings it dilutes the oil and they can just drain the dry-sump tank after each run.
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Old 02-18-2007, 01:36 PM
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<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DonF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you do not "oversize" the pump, which most do because they just get one foe a Chevy V-8. The gains are about 5%-8% depending how bad your old system was. The advantage in road Racing is that you will never starve the pick-up under cornering, braking and you can carry more oil to keep temps constant. Fuel drag racers use them because they pass so much fuel past the rings it dilutes the oil and they can just drain the dry-sump tank after each run.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think road racers also run them because they eliminate the oil pan, and therefore the motor can be mounted lower in the car. That is why I would run one, anyway...
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Old 02-18-2007, 02:06 PM
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Default Re: Dry Sump (MatHadder)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MatHadder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I think road racers also run them because they eliminate the oil pan, and therefore the motor can be mounted lower in the car. That is why I would run one, anyway...</TD></TR></TABLE>

i dont think it would completely eliminate the pan. you can just run a much lower profile pan.
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Old 02-18-2007, 03:04 PM
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Default Re: Dry Sump (Tbone)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tbone &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know a few b series guys who have run them. All of the lost power when running it in conjunction with their vac pump.
Reason being the tq on the b is so low to begin with, the frictional losses from the extra accessory running of the crank via the belt over comes a power gain.
we will be switching to this setup on our race car since we already run an external oil pump and have the frictional loss anyway..lol</TD></TR></TABLE>Even to give up a few HP for extreme cornering loads wouldn't this still be bit better then say a baffled oil pain?

I'm more thinking for safety in a slick and high classed auto X car.

Dry sump systems are cool, but with what i've read not too much a reason to do with Hondas, esp to free a few HP up.

I've been dicking around with a dry sump for my ls1 though
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Old 02-18-2007, 04:41 PM
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<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by doood &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i dont think it would completely eliminate the pan. you can just run a much lower profile pan.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, that would depend on the motor. On a Kawasaki ZX6r motor, for instance, it allows you to run a flat plate, which is basically eliminating the oil pan. On a honda, on the other hand, the crank and girdle usually hang below the oil pan sealing surface, so you wouldnt be able to do this.
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Old 02-18-2007, 04:48 PM
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Default Re: Dry Sump (Max The Amazing)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MatHadder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Well, that would depend on the motor. On a Kawasaki ZX6r motor, for instance, it allows you to run a flat plate, which is basically eliminating the oil pan. On a honda, on the other hand, the crank and girdle usually hang below the oil pan sealing surface, so you wouldnt be able to do this.</TD></TR></TABLE>

gotcha
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Old 02-19-2007, 03:21 PM
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Default Re: Dry Sump (MatHadder)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MatHadder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Well, that would depend on the motor. On a Kawasaki ZX6r motor, for instance, it allows you to run a flat plate, which is basically eliminating the oil pan. On a honda, on the other hand, the crank and girdle usually hang below the oil pan sealing surface, so you wouldnt be able to do this.</TD></TR></TABLE> It would still be shorter than a stock pan, as it only needs to hold 1 qt. of oil, theirfore better ground clearance.
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Old 02-19-2007, 07:30 PM
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Default Re: Dry Sump (DonF)

And you can put the oil tank anywhere in the car, plus heat the oil before startup.
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Old 02-19-2007, 07:47 PM
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<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DonF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> It would still be shorter than a stock pan, as it only needs to hold 1 qt. of oil, theirfore better ground clearance. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Assuming you went through the trouble of making custom motor mounts that sit the motor lower. The other problem I see with doing this on a honda is that the flywheel sits almost as low as the bottom of the oil pan, so you would need to run a smaller flywheel or something, and modify the bell housing to allow the motor to sit lower. Also, I am pretty sure the axle angles would end up being pretty terrible.
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Old 02-19-2007, 08:15 PM
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You can lower it without fabricating new mounts. If the trans is a problem, getting a smaller fw and clutch wouldn't be a problem, neither would fabbing a cover. IIRC the axles only need a 15* angle to be happy.
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Old 02-19-2007, 09:04 PM
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Default Re: Dry Sump (Aquafina)

Every dry sump mfg I have talked to said that those shallow pans are rubbish and that you want a 55 gallon drum under your motor if it will fit

Here is my pan. Flame away.





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Old 02-20-2007, 09:22 AM
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Default Re: Dry Sump (4piston)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4piston &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Every dry sump mfg I have talked to said that those shallow pans are rubbish and that you want a 55 gallon drum under your motor if it will fit

Here is my pan. Flame away.





</TD></TR></TABLE>

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Old 02-20-2007, 10:09 AM
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Default Re: Dry Sump (4piston)

Sorry, I keep thinking about race cars, where designers want a lower center of gravity for handeling. It also keeps the roll-center lower to prevent "jacking" and having to use to much spring. But, if your engine is 3 ft off the ground, then a 2ft. oil pan is good.The 1 quart of oil in the pan is then 2ft. from the crank.
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Old 02-20-2007, 10:10 AM
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<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4piston &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Every dry sump mfg I have talked to said that those shallow pans are rubbish and that you want a 55 gallon drum under your motor if it will fit
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, in a car with a center of gravity below 10" with a driver, fitting a 55 gallon drum becomes difficult...

The flat plate was difficult to keep sealed, but it seemed to work pretty well, even with less than optimal pickups. It is really hard to get data on how well it is actually working while the car is driving, but we never had the motor sieze, and I seem to remember datalogging oil pressure and not seeing anything scary.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4piston &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here is my pan. Flame away. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Does that have five drain plugs..?
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Old 02-20-2007, 11:06 AM
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Default Re: Dry Sump (MatHadder)

Im clueless looking @ that pan. what are those things sticking out of the bottom of it?
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