Dry Sump - Honda-Tech - Honda Forum Discussion


All Motor / Naturally Aspirated No power adders

Dry Sump

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-17-2007, 06:23 PM   #1
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
lude98SH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Drexel Hill, Pa, 19026
Posts: 2,799
Default Dry Sump

Is anyone on here running it ?
lude98SH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2007, 06:29 PM   #2
Honda-Tech Member
 
4piston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Indianapolis, USA
Posts: 4,559
Default Re: Dry Sump (lude98SH)

Most of the pro all motor cars are running them.
4piston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2007, 07:12 PM   #3
Honda-Tech Member
 
spun Vtec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Altoona, pa, usa y0
Posts: 4,407
Default Re: Dry Sump (4piston)

what kind of gains would say a 250 whp na bseries get from going dry? (aprox guess)
spun Vtec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2007, 07:20 PM   #4
Honda-Tech Member
 
Natural Aspirations's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: nothing is real unless it is observed
Posts: 5,968
Default Re: Dry Sump (spun Vtec)

I hope more than the disappointment I get when you mom goes dry.............Oh snap no he didn't.
Natural Aspirations is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2007, 07:30 PM   #5
Honda-Tech Member
 
spun Vtec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Altoona, pa, usa y0
Posts: 4,407
Default Re: Dry Sump (Natural Aspirations)

haha ive heard that you gain 20whp from running KY jelly instead of oil in a dry app.
spun Vtec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2007, 10:12 PM   #6
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
lude98SH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Drexel Hill, Pa, 19026
Posts: 2,799
Default Re: Dry Sump (spun Vtec)

A friend of mines dad actually was on a bmw race team back in the 90s. He said on their race cars they gained around 30whp. It not only keeps the oil pan oilless therefore reducing drag on the crank it also creats a vacumm in the oil pan therefore the crank turning doesnt even have air to have to cut though. Its minimal gains with the air but its a sideffect of running dry sump in the first place.
lude98SH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2007, 10:57 PM   #7
Honda-Tech Member
 
RaceCarRyne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: chicago
Posts: 1,746
Default Re: Dry Sump (lude98SH)

were do you get a dry sump conversion?
RaceCarRyne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2007, 11:13 PM   #8
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Aquafina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Johnson City TN
Posts: 11,474
Default Re: Dry Sump (DC2jdmIntegra)

Search
Aquafina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 06:22 AM   #9
Honda-Tech Member
 
Tbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: North East
Posts: 4,300
Default Re: Dry Sump (lude98SH)

I know a few b series guys who have run them. All of the lost power when running it in conjunction with their vac pump.
Reason being the tq on the b is so low to begin with, the frictional losses from the extra accessory running of the crank via the belt over comes a power gain.
we will be switching to this setup on our race car since we already run an external oil pump and have the frictional loss anyway..lol
Tbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 09:12 AM   #10
Honda-Tech Member
 
spun Vtec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Altoona, pa, usa y0
Posts: 4,407
Default Re: Dry Sump (lude98SH)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lude98SH
A friend of mines dad actually was on a bmw race team back in the 90s. He said on their race cars they gained around 30whp. It not only keeps the oil pan oilless therefore reducing drag on the crank it also creats a vacumm in the oil pan therefore the crank turning doesnt even have air to have to cut though. Its minimal gains with the air but its a sideffect of running dry sump in the first place.
I work for bimmerworld (world challange touring car) off and on.
spun Vtec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 11:18 AM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Atl. Beach, fl, duval
Posts: 5,197
Default Re: Dry Sump (spun Vtec)

If you do not "oversize" the pump, which most do because they just get one foe a Chevy V-8. The gains are about 5%-8% depending how bad your old system was. The advantage in road Racing is that you will never starve the pick-up under cornering, braking and you can carry more oil to keep temps constant. Fuel drag racers use them because they pass so much fuel past the rings it dilutes the oil and they can just drain the dry-sump tank after each run.
DonF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 02:36 PM   #12
Honda-Tech Member
 
MatHadder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 882
Default Re: Dry Sump (DonF)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonF
If you do not "oversize" the pump, which most do because they just get one foe a Chevy V-8. The gains are about 5%-8% depending how bad your old system was. The advantage in road Racing is that you will never starve the pick-up under cornering, braking and you can carry more oil to keep temps constant. Fuel drag racers use them because they pass so much fuel past the rings it dilutes the oil and they can just drain the dry-sump tank after each run.
I think road racers also run them because they eliminate the oil pan, and therefore the motor can be mounted lower in the car. That is why I would run one, anyway...
MatHadder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 03:06 PM   #13
been there done that
iTrader: (1)
 
doood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: earth
Posts: 11,866
Default Re: Dry Sump (MatHadder)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatHadder

I think road racers also run them because they eliminate the oil pan, and therefore the motor can be mounted lower in the car. That is why I would run one, anyway...
i dont think it would completely eliminate the pan. you can just run a much lower profile pan.
doood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 04:04 PM   #14
Pirate General...YARRRR
 
Ass$nyper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Kills, United States
Posts: 12,330
Default Re: Dry Sump (Tbone)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbone
I know a few b series guys who have run them. All of the lost power when running it in conjunction with their vac pump.
Reason being the tq on the b is so low to begin with, the frictional losses from the extra accessory running of the crank via the belt over comes a power gain.
we will be switching to this setup on our race car since we already run an external oil pump and have the frictional loss anyway..lol
Even to give up a few HP for extreme cornering loads wouldn't this still be bit better then say a baffled oil pain?

I'm more thinking for safety in a slick and high classed auto X car.

Dry sump systems are cool, but with what i've read not too much a reason to do with Hondas, esp to free a few HP up.

I've been dicking around with a dry sump for my ls1 though
Ass$nyper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 05:41 PM   #15
Honda-Tech Member
 
MatHadder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 882
Default Re: Dry Sump (doood)

Quote:
Originally Posted by doood

i dont think it would completely eliminate the pan. you can just run a much lower profile pan.
Well, that would depend on the motor. On a Kawasaki ZX6r motor, for instance, it allows you to run a flat plate, which is basically eliminating the oil pan. On a honda, on the other hand, the crank and girdle usually hang below the oil pan sealing surface, so you wouldnt be able to do this.
MatHadder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 05:48 PM   #16
been there done that
iTrader: (1)
 
doood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: earth
Posts: 11,866
Default Re: Dry Sump (Max The Amazing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatHadder

Well, that would depend on the motor. On a Kawasaki ZX6r motor, for instance, it allows you to run a flat plate, which is basically eliminating the oil pan. On a honda, on the other hand, the crank and girdle usually hang below the oil pan sealing surface, so you wouldnt be able to do this.
gotcha
doood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2007, 04:21 PM   #17
Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Atl. Beach, fl, duval
Posts: 5,197
Default Re: Dry Sump (MatHadder)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatHadder

Well, that would depend on the motor. On a Kawasaki ZX6r motor, for instance, it allows you to run a flat plate, which is basically eliminating the oil pan. On a honda, on the other hand, the crank and girdle usually hang below the oil pan sealing surface, so you wouldnt be able to do this.
It would still be shorter than a stock pan, as it only needs to hold 1 qt. of oil, theirfore better ground clearance.
DonF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2007, 08:30 PM   #18
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Aquafina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Johnson City TN
Posts: 11,474
Default Re: Dry Sump (DonF)

And you can put the oil tank anywhere in the car, plus heat the oil before startup.
Aquafina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2007, 08:47 PM   #19
Honda-Tech Member
 
MatHadder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 882
Default Re: Dry Sump (DonF)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonF
It would still be shorter than a stock pan, as it only needs to hold 1 qt. of oil, theirfore better ground clearance.
Assuming you went through the trouble of making custom motor mounts that sit the motor lower. The other problem I see with doing this on a honda is that the flywheel sits almost as low as the bottom of the oil pan, so you would need to run a smaller flywheel or something, and modify the bell housing to allow the motor to sit lower. Also, I am pretty sure the axle angles would end up being pretty terrible.
MatHadder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2007, 09:15 PM   #20
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Aquafina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Johnson City TN
Posts: 11,474
Default Re: Dry Sump (MatHadder)

You can lower it without fabricating new mounts. If the trans is a problem, getting a smaller fw and clutch wouldn't be a problem, neither would fabbing a cover. IIRC the axles only need a 15* angle to be happy.
Aquafina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2007, 10:04 PM   #21
Honda-Tech Member
 
4piston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Indianapolis, USA
Posts: 4,559
Default Re: Dry Sump (Aquafina)

Every dry sump mfg I have talked to said that those shallow pans are rubbish and that you want a 55 gallon drum under your motor if it will fit

Here is my pan. Flame away.





4piston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2007, 10:22 AM   #22
 
revolt_allmotor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: 909 all motor mafia,, CA, USA
Posts: 4,518
Default Re: Dry Sump (4piston)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4piston
Every dry sump mfg I have talked to said that those shallow pans are rubbish and that you want a 55 gallon drum under your motor if it will fit

Here is my pan. Flame away.




revolt_allmotor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2007, 11:09 AM   #23
Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Atl. Beach, fl, duval
Posts: 5,197
Default Re: Dry Sump (4piston)

Sorry, I keep thinking about race cars, where designers want a lower center of gravity for handeling. It also keeps the roll-center lower to prevent "jacking" and having to use to much spring. But, if your engine is 3 ft off the ground, then a 2ft. oil pan is good.The 1 quart of oil in the pan is then 2ft. from the crank.
DonF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2007, 11:10 AM   #24
Honda-Tech Member
 
MatHadder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 882
Default Re: Dry Sump (4piston)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4piston
Every dry sump mfg I have talked to said that those shallow pans are rubbish and that you want a 55 gallon drum under your motor if it will fit
Well, in a car with a center of gravity below 10" with a driver, fitting a 55 gallon drum becomes difficult...

The flat plate was difficult to keep sealed, but it seemed to work pretty well, even with less than optimal pickups. It is really hard to get data on how well it is actually working while the car is driving, but we never had the motor sieze, and I seem to remember datalogging oil pressure and not seeing anything scary.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 4piston
Here is my pan. Flame away.
Does that have five drain plugs..?
MatHadder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2007, 12:06 PM   #25
Honda-Tech Member
 
spun Vtec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Altoona, pa, usa y0
Posts: 4,407
Default Re: Dry Sump (MatHadder)

Im clueless looking @ that pan. what are those things sticking out of the bottom of it?
spun Vtec is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Delete OmarR For Sale 0 02-09-2016 07:16 AM
AZ ... OneSlowEkHatch Vehicles for sale 0 10-16-2015 07:09 AM
------------------------ thaijdmpart For Sale 0 11-20-2014 12:37 AM
civic trade battmancjz Southern California (Sales) 15 03-06-2014 10:41 AM
WOW!!!!!! Newborn_ Acura NSX 3 06-17-2006 12:31 PM


Tags
4pistons, b16, bseries, d16z6, diy, diys, dry, drysump, honda, hondatech, install, oil, pan, series, sump, tech

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:45 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: