1 2 NV

Once you have your V2V and P2V clearances checked you need to degree in your camshafts.

V2V and P2V thread: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1891614

Set up your dial indicator(s) on the head.
Rotate your crank until you find your absolute TDC and zero out your dial indicators.
Install the degree wheel on your crank pulley. Then use a solid piece of wire for a pointer to your absoulte TDC (0) mark on your degree wheel.
Now rotate your motor over until you reach your cams degreed spec on the degree wheel. (this is for the exhaust side. In my case it was 106* BTDC).
Now loosen your cam gear bolts and rotate the cam until your dial indicator reaches its highest point (peak lift) and retighten cam gear.
Do the same on the intake side. (this one is done at 99* ATDC)
Thats all it takes to degree your cams in.

Until yesterday i was doing it by the hit and miss method by changing the cam gears and checking all my opening, closing and peak lift durations on the degree wheel. this left alot to be desired due to my ever so changing findings.
i know someones doing a full write up with pictures on degreeing camshafts and there are write ups on the net but usually they are designed towards the V8 which requires them to change the cam gear using a different method. with our "sliding" cam gears this is a hell of alot easier than my previous hit and miss method.

Honestly: until i came up with this revelation yesterday i had already spent maybe 2 hrs using the hit and miss method. after it dawned on me using this method i had it done in about 10 min.

TAKEN FROM SKUNK2s catalog:
One of the keys to making power is to properly set
camshaft timing; in other words, when valves open and
close in relationship to the position of the piston and
crankshaft is critical to the performance of the engine.
The process of properly setting the camshaft position
is referred to as “Degreeing the Cam”. Many beginner
tuners mistakenly believe that to degree cams means
setting the cam gears at a certain position such as “+1
intake & -2 exhaust”. Though this information may be
useful at times, these settings may not be accurate on all
motors. For example when the deck of a head or block
is machined, it will retard the cam timing. So the cam
gear setting method may only apply to engines using
the same type of cam gears with exact same head and
block heights; and this also assumes that the given cam
gear settings are the correct location for the cams. The
most accurate way to set camshaft position is to properly
“degree the cams”; this way you can be sure the cams
are in the right position regardless of engine variations,
deck heights, and cam gear marks. The method we are
introducing is a simple method for setting cam positions
using peak lift measurements. Cam degreeing can also
be used to check valve opening and closing positions,
durations at various lifts, and peak lift measurements.

Step 1: Install a Degree Wheel onto the end of the
crankshaft, and bolt a pointer onto the block. The pointer
can be a sharpened piece of welding rod or coat hanger
that can be bent to change the position of the pointer.
Rotate the crankshaft to TDC, you can use a dial indicator
inserted down the spark plug hole or the piston stop
method; the piston stop method is more accurate. When
the crankshaft is at TDC, move the pointer so it points to
TDC / 0 degree on the degree wheel.

Step 2: Set-Up dial indicator with the tip on the retainer,
not the rocker arm. To get an accurate reading, It is
important to make sure that the axis of the indicator is
parallel with the axis of the valve. Make sure the rocker is
on the base circle of the camshaft, in other words, make
sure the valve is completely closed, and zero out the dial
indicator. We recommend that you degree the cam with
the lash set at 0.000.”

Step 3: Rotate the crankshaft. When the cam starts to
open the valve, the dial indicator will show the amount
of valve lift. Rotate the crankshaft and stop when the
pointer is pointing at the specified peak lift/center line
position. Loosen the cam gear bolts and rotate the
camshaft until the indicator is showing that the cam is at
peak lift. Tighten the cam gear bolts. Rotate the engine
two more rotations, stopping when the dial indicator
reaches peak lift, look down at the degree wheel to
make sure the position of the crankshaft is in the correct
location. If not, repeat step 3.

Step 4: Move the dial indicator to the other side of the
head, and repeat steps 2 and 3. When peak lift positions
of both the intake and exhaust cams are set in the proper
locations, the cams are considered to be degreed in.

Helpful Tip 1: When degreeing a camshaft, make sure
that you rotate the crankshaft in the direction the
engine normally runs. If you over shoot the position the
crankshaft is supposed to be in, do not rotate the engine
backwards, it will throw off your numbers because the
tensioner only works properly in one direction.

Helpful Tip 2: If you are having a hard time finding
the centerline because the cam dwells at peak lift, you
can take a reading of the degree wheel when the cam
reaches max lift less 0.003” before and after peak lift.
The middle of those two positions will be the centerline.



Modified by 1 2 NV at 1:39 PM 8/25/2007

itr_henrik

Do I understand correctly that for this method to work you need to know the degree spec for the maximum lift? Now my cams did not come with these specs but I know the opening degree spec @ 0.050". So I turn the crank until the degree wheel shows the degree spec for the intake opening eg. 28 BTDC. Then I loosen the cam gear bolts and turn the cam until the dial indicator shows 0.050" lift. Same for the exhaust. Is this going to work?

1 2 NV

you are correct. this method mentioned above is the peak lift method.
since you only know your opening and closing events on the cams then you can use those.
i have found as in the case on saturday that the advertised opening and closing events can be slightly off.

AutotechRD

You do realize that you don't even need the cam specs to degree in the cam(s) right? Also, using the "peak lift method" would only work if you are going to make changes from your original "peak lift" point. If you are comparing two different cams, it would be much smarter to use the average of the opening and closing of each cam @ .050" valve lift. Most modern cams designed for a radius rocker are non-symetrical, placing the peak lift point offset from the base of the lobe.

There's alot more to it than this, just thought I would point this out.

AutotechRD

Oh, one more thing. Please check your v2v and p2v clearances after you have your cams set where you think you want them. I would recomend checking the p2v and v2v clearance with the cams adjusted ~ 4 degrees further than where you think they should be. By saying further, I mean 4 extra crank degrees retarded on the exhaust, and 4 extra crank degrees advanced on the intake. The v2v clearance may be too close at this setting, but it will be good to know if you have an extra couple degrees to move the cams around on the dyno.

1 2 NV

this was a quick rundown to my previous V2V and P2V post so that stuff has already been covered.

stumpyf4

Can you degree cams while in the car? 94-01 Integra to be specific?

1 2 NV

of course you can degree the cams in the car.

chris2000

But most specs provided by USA cam manufacturer on BTDC and ATDC are only for Vtec Lobe.

And the problem with asian mechanics, they can't degree them with the specs provided on the cam card cause they don't mechanically lock the vtec to degree them cam.

Japanese brands like Jun and Toda all provide specs on their cam card for all three lobes, primary, secondary and vtec lobe which the local asian mechanic can use the primary or secondary lobe to degree them.

Is there any other way to degree USA made cams when only vtec lobe specs are given?

1 2 NV

sounds like we have it all *** backwards. i wish the manufacturers would provide the cam card for degreeing the VTEC lobes but giving us the primary and secondary just so we wouldnt have to lock VTEC. sure it doesnt take that long but its still time consuming nonetheless.

Professor15

for 1 2 nv for posting up some info that i will be using in the near future.

1 2 NV

sorry to beat a dead horse, new text added from skunk2s catalog.

ShaunRR

In the interest of spreading knowledge and searchability, you might want to edit your first post to include a link to your other thread

b17a1db2

when you degree the cams, does it matter if you do it with your primary lobe or your vtec lobe? would it change your degree setting on your adj. cam gears? or another way to put it, would you have to lock your rockers in vtec, when you degree in your cams?

1 2 NV

yes you must do it with the rockers locked. i thought i stated this already, if not no biggie.
i have seen others request lobe centers for the primary/secondary lobes before in relation to the VTEC lobes but the manufacturers arent willing to do that for us. it would be a hell of alot easier to know how many degrees difference there were between primary/secondary and the vtec lobes then we wouldnt have to go through the effort of locking the rockers. however, that would be way to easy and i would imagine the manufactures would prefer people degreeing in their cams that actually know what they are doing.

b17a1db2

cool. another thing learned. thanks..

Espec_rep

im trying to degree my motor with BC4 cams and the cam sheet said its intake max lift is at 102* ATDC. so i turned my degree wheel to 102* ATDC and adjust the cam gear to reach its max lift. but i can't reach the cams max lift without going out of my scale on the cam gear? please help thanks in advance!

1 2 NV

anyone? i have never personally seen this. ive seen some crazy funky cam gear settings after dyno tuning but never seen a cam gear that couldnt adjust far enough.

Espec_rep

before i did any adjustment, i found out the intake cam peaks between 127* and 140* so the number in between is 133.5*. i think im getting the concept wrong.

my question is, the cam degree spec provided by the maker, is that number where the cam SHOULD have its max lift at?

1 2 NV

yes the manufacturer spec is where the cam should have its max lift. as you said 102* is the value that you should see max lift.
on the dyno i adjusted my EX cam 1 degree off manufacturers specs.

Espec_rep

ok i just did it again and I was able to reach max lift by maxing out on the cam gear setting. so thats 5 lines, each line equal to 2 degrees, total of 10 degrees advanced on the intake. sounds a bit much?

BTW, working on your own motor is fun but frustrating! haha

Skunk2Tony

First off, 1 2 N V this is a great thread and should honestly be stickied to help more people out. You dont know how many calls we get a day about degreeing cams and even people who just think that a cam can be installed and not setup.

Second, for Chris 2000, 1 2 N V, and the rest of the tuner community, im pleased to say that we will shortly be offering low speed lobe degree specs to help people out. Our mechanics are spending the next 2 weeks degreeing in every set of cams we have to provide this data and help save you guys time. Hopefully this will help the mechanics in asia too (although I wish they would just realize that they could lock VTEC by running compressed air into the VTEC solenoid switch hole. The way Chris makes it sound, its almost as if they just dont care to learn to do it any other way). Nevertheless, hopefully this info will help people out some more.

**One more thing to remember that we're seeing a lot of customers who call in forget to realize is that the "quick cam gear setings" that we provide in our catalog are only an aid for those who cannot degree their cams. These numbers will not get you exactly to where you need to be as there is no replacement for degreeing your cams. Two identical motors may be slightly off. Also, not all cam gears are the same. On our Pro-series cam gear, 1 mark = 1 cam degree and on our older colored Tuner Series cam gears, 1 mark = 2 cam degrees. 1 company's cam gear marks may slightly differ from anothers as well.

Again, great post 1 2 N V

98vtec

would you guys like this stickied or added to the faq? or both?

great post mang, gonna be using this once belbens adapter gets here.

Espec_rep

after hours of frustration i finally figured out what the problem was!!! since my cam gears doesn't have the original marking and the cams couldn't be locked, the intake cam gear was off by one tooth! haha.

anyways i re-adjusted and intake is dead on and doesn't need to be advanced. the exhaust needed to be retarded 4degree.

with that all said and done. i clayed the motor and got clearance of 4mm on intake and 2 mm on exhaust for cylinder #1. but only 3mm on intake and 1mm on exhaust for cylinder #4! maybe bent valves?

this was done with a stock headgasket. i was thinking about using a 2mm headgasket to increase clearance and lower the compression ratio. do i have to re degree the cams after 2mm headgasket?

motor: gsr head, gsr block, gsr crank/rods w/ CTR pistons, BC spec4 cams.

TIA

1 2 NV

you will have to redegree if you put on a thicker head gasket. it will still probably be pretty close but you should redegree. usually minimum P2V is .040 = 1mm. it depends on who your talking to.