raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

im about 2-3 months into my build.
stage 1 was research
learning about engine_SUCESS
learning about cost to build one-FAIL
stage 2 buying parts
FUN when you get them
NOT FUN when you dont get parts and pay money
stage 3 put all together and tune
stage 4 drive fast, get pulled over pay tickets( should include that in your engine build cost as well)

so from personal experience its a fn headache
to make that step from beeing able to change your own oil and add some boltons to beeing able to build an engine completely with minimal shop involvement is really fun.
but its a headache when things dont go as planned.
because when things dont go as planned at the shop, you dont worry because you re paying for the results and let the shop worry about lil stuff.

picking the right parts, and constantly reading, and comparing
then reading again and realizing that you ve been reading all wrong info before this is priceless... people posting info without backup greatly contributes to worldwide junk of unreliable info.( im guilty of it as well, but in about 90% of time i try to dig up some proof)


back to costs

my plan was to buy a gsr and spend 1000-1500 + cost of the motor
well guess what. that plan FAILED miserably.

after calculating everything half way through( should have been done at the begining)
block head-600 bucks
shop labor for the bore/bearing check/ballance rotating assembly 300+
rebuild parts(bearings, gaskets,belts,etc)400+
aftermarket"fun" parts around 1200-1400 dolla
dyno tune another 400 bucks
i havent even thought about the ecu chipping lol(hondata is another 500 bucks for DIY kit)

so total im looking ato around 3000 dolla lol a lil different from what i expected.

even with cutting corners and buying used parts where i can im still up for around 2200-2400 dollars.




one major mistake i made, i started planning from aftermarket parts. and not from my top budget and shop labor.

i clicked on all the parts i wanted that i saw on evans tuning that made the power i wanted and it seemed simple.
pistons, cams cam gears, IM,TB yeeey.
then goes: cyl bore,bearings,ballance,assembly,milling head,gasket sets,timing belt,oil pump,water pump,injectors,fuel pump, dizzy,valve cover,paint,cleaning ,tools, assembly greace etc, ecu chipping,dyno tuning, extra unaccounted nuts bolts sensors etc...



in other words you start from things that you NEED, like dyno cost, ecu chipping cost,engine rebuild parts,shop labor cost, and then move on to the parts that you can afford after all the major necessary points have been covered.

because if you buildind an engine with higher HP the stress on the engine is much higher.
take the dual valve springs for example and oversized bore
the springs are 70lb ( factory type-r are 50 or so correct?) cams with much bigger lift, higher compression and bigger displacement.
if you try to use OEM timing belt its gnna go OH SNAP (slip) and you re out for another engine rebuild or replace.

there are people of course that get away with stuff like this but they are not amateurs, they know whats going on with their engine at all times



hope this helps people who are just thinking about a build, and prevent the unfinished build for sale threads(at least some)


everyone else who already did build (or attempted to build and not finished) an all motor engine please post your experience and how your build went,
what kinds of unexpected things you ran into while building.

how much it cost(breakdown if you willing to share the info) dont have to post exact stuff just name of the part
how long it took to finish
if you didnt finish, why not?
how long it lasted if you dont mind.

Emilk26

well I can relate to your story, the fun part when everything goes as planned. Where I live things( motorparts) is like 3x more expensive than in the states...because first: we need to order it and get it shipped to Florida.
2). we must pay for the shipment and shipper fees.
3).when it gets here (Aruba) we must pay again for taxes and shipping fees from florida to Aruba. (ouch)!!!
I have build a b20 all motor and it ran very well, but never had a chance to run it with slicks. best e.t. with street tires was 14.01/ 106 mph
the build is as follow:
-PnP stage 2 b16 head $600
-b20 engine (complete) $1.428 the guy wanted to sell complete.
-arp studs, acl bearings, $300
-cp pistons 11.5, $400
- skunk2 stage2 cams, $ 525 + cam gears $175
-block guard $ 99
-xtd clutch kit $ 120
- Microtech ls8 $1280 + installation.
-70 mm TB, $200
-evo injectors $300
multiple dynos trips..$100 each. maybe 12 times. it made a 225 hp and 163 tq.
The only thing that was not changed is the one that killed the motor: Valvetrain upgrade.
It lasted a year of abuse.....
Now I'm rebuilding again but with better parts and making sure everything is upgraded.
cost around +/- $4000 in parts...good way to go broke...

neverstop

yeah, just to freshen up mine right will probably cost me $1500

4g hatch

i know what you mean about buying parts and never getting them.
i paid 1200$ for the first rebuild on my block
850 the second time
and 400 for the original cost of the block to start out with
then i never get it back after the second rebuild,now thats priceless!!

if it was me i would get a good b20 longblock for around 600 and just do a ls-v conversion with gsr or type r cams and just keep the revs around 8000 rpms,but thats just me but it will make good power/torque and last a while

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

i like gsr motor
i always run out of RPMs on my ls and it looks like im real noob when i hit the rev limiter
( i get too excited and forget to shift

88Hatchy

GSR swap $2500
Sell GSR transmission -$700
Custom YS1 w/ Quaife $1100
Used ClutchMasters Stage 3 $200
Axles $200
Mounts $400
Shift linkage $100
P72 w/ S300 $500
Used skunk2 cams & valvetrain $400
Spoon Cam Gears $300
Crower rods $700
JE Pistons w/ rings & pins ~$500 (can't remember)
Seals, gaskets, bearings, water pump, oil pump ~$450 (can't remember)
S2 Pro Series IM $250
Maxbore TB $100
Injectors $300
FPR $125
Samco Intake Tube w/ PVC, BPi stack & filter $200
Header $1000
Thermal R&D 3" $600
Misc Exhaust ~$80
Machine work ~$260
Wideband $180
Tune $250


=$9995, give or take

reeff

Im 10k or more into my motor,got ta pay ta play -Reeff-

jmart41791

mines looks like its gonna around what 88hatchy is around. and to think I'm only gonna be doing ~12.5 e.t's lol. if your car is already swapped with a tunable computer you save a couple thousand from tranny computer mounts axles linkage etc.

killer_Bseries

i've got about 10k worth of receipts in parts and labor.

95skunkedgsr

i honestly dont want to sit down and add everything up .... i might end my life shortly after if i did .... ill tell you one thing tho i look at my w-2 forms from the last three years and wonder where it all went everytime lol

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

lol. im gonna have to look at my credit card pretty soon and then work work work!!!!!!

the main question is. was it worth the money and time you put in?

h23V

Wow 10k i could build an h22 for alot less than 10k maybe 4k i'd say making 270plus with h2b.

neverstop

if you're looking to save money all motor does NOT look like the way to go. a 50-75 shot on a stock b18c or simple turbo kit would be much more effective.

also, I try not to think of how much I've spent on building cars. I probably had $10-14k into a 4g63 swapped hatchback I built a few years back. For not much more I could have bought a used C5 vette.....

I'll probably have $10k into this civic by the time I'm done getting it how I want also. Is it worth it? that's a tough question and different for everyone. I'm not trying to impress girls or anything so driving a 15 year old honda hatchback, that's loud and uncomfortable and smells like gas that nobody understands why I put thousands of dollars into is fine with me.

It's hard to justify in any rational way the cost but if you don't really care and just look at it like a hobby, like model airplanes or race cars, then its fine. It's expensive but I think it's worth it because I really enjoy building crazy weird fast cars that my gf thinks are crazy.

neverstop

H series are bad *** but have their own set of problems too

neverstop

"stage 4 drive fast, get pulled over pay tickets( should include that in your engine build cost as well)"


hahahaha..... my driving record is a total disaster because of fast cars. Man my nitrous'd ls1 camaro cost me THOUSANDS in tickets hahaha

h23V

What type problems are u talking about i have none. Besides the tensioner i see now problems. Once u go manual tensioner there aren't any problems.

88Hatchy

FRM sleeves are the biggest drawback. Limited after market support compared to B series engines. The H series transmission is worthless, as you already know. Balance shafts. If you build an H series like I built my engine, you will be spending a lot of money. For what it would cost to build a H22 how I want it, I would rather just get a K24 swap.

EDIT: Forgot about rocker pad wear.

negusjuda

i hope everyone who thinks it is sooo easy and cheap to build a motor is reading this thread. im about 3000 into my build so far and its a real pain in the you know what. i have thought about just selling everything i have about 5 times now.

OH_1fstgsr

iTrader: (2)

Head $2000
Block $1800
Header $1300
Once I got here I quit adding it up.

allmotaeg6

i have $10k+ invested into my motor and it keeps on going up since i decided to change out some things on the top end and thinking about getting another custom header made...like everyone has said gotta pay to play...

airmaxbri

honest $9K parts and labor

81.5mm 12.5cr Pro2 build. 218whp/153tq

saved some $$ here and there,

$180 type r P73 manifold and throttle body
$300 for full buddy club valvetrain (retainers, springs, valves)

Kudos to people who do all the work themselves. You'll save a ton of money.

But for most people, it's just not realistic to have 200whp for $4K and have a reputable shop complete your car for that price with no problems.

I know there is some here on HT that say....NA 240whp for $3K blah blah blah.
That's the exception , not the rule.

Before you start the build, come up with a number and multipy that 1.5x. Then when the job is finished, you won't be so shocked by the $$$$

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

true once i looked at my ballance the thought of just selling it all knocks on the door pretty often.

but this is the 3rd time i try to build one and this time im alot closer to the finish than last 2 times
1st time
bought the b16 head, sold it 6 months later cuz i didnt have money
2nd time saved up about 2500 dolas and had to spend it on a trip to see my grandparents in europe( pretty fn expensive trip lol)
3rd time
got most of the parts together for lil cheaper than i thought would cost me new( thanks to all HT guys giving great deals,(wish you better luck next time, no sarcasm) and hope that i wont be in same boat, selling my parts off cuz i ran dry..

but for me its wort it to have some power to your foot and know that i built it myself and know every detail that went into it,
putting it together gives you a whole new feeling of the car, you feel its heartbeat.
as opposed to a shop building it you just drive it and no connection

h23V

Frm sleeves i don't have that problem i have a stock sleeve h22 that i've had for 4 years that's been used for 3 yr's on 100-150shot nitrous single fogger setup they are very strong sleeves but if u don't know how 2 build a motor that's a different story.

H22 trans Zip tie the cables from the trans and mod the shifter no problems.

Balance shafts i don't run balance shafts and did a diy block of kit that was 24 bucks if that.

And the rocker pad wear depends on the oil that u use if u use 5/40 5/50 race or dieseil oils u will be fine.

Oils are just not oils anymore if u buy full syn of the shelf mobil/ and other's walmart brands they don't have zinc in them that's what causes the rocker pads to wear in any motor and bearing wear also not just b/c it's an h22 u think honda made different material rocker pads for each series engine. I think not.

I have a f22 crank and rods jdm piston build currently running stock head custom stock intake mani 70mm tb. Running low 14's 99-100 mph stock cams in accord. With a 4-5 yr old block that i beat the hell out of with nitrous and still holds 275psi compression. I'd say frm sleeves aren't weak.

q16racer

FRM isnt weak at all, but it does limit your ability to use them while building a motor. I did a 14.0 in my prelude with a full stock internal h22a 3 years ago and a 13.4 @104 with an h23vtec that had a completely stock h22a head. Every engine has its pros and cons, it just depends on what you are working with or what you are forced to work with.

I just calculated my new build including the trans build and it totalled around 13,000. really sad when i write down how many big ticket items i have lol.
________
Buy easy vape

Red_Army

im at almost 5k and i haven't even Begun to do my engine work. so think about the entire car too and not just the engine. though to be fair like 1500 of that 5k is engine bolt ons. i imagine by the end i'll have dumped close to 10k into the engine alone. making the whole car pry close to 20k when all is said and done.

but it'll be worth it to put my foot to the floor and take off. on my next build i may not choose to use mostly top of the line stuff. save alot o money that way but im super picky like that.

nothing cheap about NA builds. i just don't think people realize the expense of milling, decking, radial/5angle valvejobs, boring and so on.