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Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

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Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

 
Old 12-04-2018, 09:14 AM
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Icon5 Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

wanted to start a discussion about the pros and cons of either or in a NA high compression application for the purpose of gaining knowledge on both, and also to see what would be the best choice for different set ups.

My set up is as follows:
81.5mm ls block
eagle rods
pr3 full floating pistons
b16 head
flat valves dual springs ti retainers
s2t2 cams w gears
block has golden eagle girdle
blox im port matched to 65mm tb
toda rep header
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Old 12-04-2018, 09:55 AM
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Default re: Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

My main reason for considering coil on plug is mostly for long-term reliability vs trying to source out and buying oem honda dizzys and their assorted parts and not worrying about the screw backing out on me. It feels like I can get a COP kit, and not have to worry about finding something thats been discontinued by Honda. The price differences seem awfully close too if you keep having to buy distributors over time.

Curious to see what others say. I understand it being more necessary for higher HP builds with forced induction, but I've also been told the stock distributor is plenty for na.
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Old 12-04-2018, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

Your distributor still does the majority of the work unless your going with a cam trigger ignition setup. your distributor is still used for the crank position, cylinder position and tdc sensors.

my personal experience with the hondata coil on plug setup hasn't been good. Two of the cars it was used on wouldn't get any spark at all and the other two both had ignition break up issues well before a honda distributor would (both turbo cars)

its a cool idea in theory but I think it's more baller factor for most people. Until hondata comes up with a easy to set up cam trigger I would stay away from it.
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Old 12-06-2018, 11:24 AM
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Default Re: Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

Agreed. I would love to see something that exploits the factory CKF sensor (maybe with a replacement wheel with a higher tooth count?) and a cam sensor on the front of the engine. The only thing that bothers me is that, by the time you spend all of that money adapting COP to an obd1 s300 or whatever setup, you are most of the way to getting a proper ecu (and therefore having full functionality, proper data logging/analysis software, actual knock control, etc)... so what’s the point?
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Old 12-07-2018, 06:30 PM
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Default Re: Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

Well ill just add, I purchased a Brand new AEM V2 EMS, AEM COP kit and Rywire harness to go coil on plug, everything brand new on the dyno and it blew a coil on the first pull, had to swap back in my OEM distr. setup to finish the tune. I prolly had a bad coil or whatever but after AEM replaced it I sold the entire setup and im now back on Hondata S300 and oem dizzy.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:11 PM
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Default Re: Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

I'm a firm believer in the K.I.S.S. theory of engineering: Keep it simple stupid.

if it ain't broke don't fix it. People are running 10's all day all motor b series with distributors. That money would be much better spent in just about any aspect of the car; Suspension, tires, cams, machine work, intake manifold selection or even just additional time tuning the setup.
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:16 PM
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Default Re: Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

Originally Posted by K7-1Ktrevor View Post
I'm a firm believer in the K.I.S.S. theory of engineering: Keep it simple stupid.

if it ain't broke don't fix it. People are running 10's all day all motor b series with distributors. That money would be much better spent in just about any aspect of the car; Suspension, tires, cams, machine work, intake manifold selection or even just additional time tuning the setup.
These are wise words!
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Old 12-10-2018, 05:03 AM
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Default Re: Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

Originally Posted by K7-1Ktrevor View Post
I'm a firm believer in the K.I.S.S. theory of engineering: Keep it simple stupid.

if it ain't broke don't fix it. People are running 10's all day all motor b series with distributors. That money would be much better spent in just about any aspect of the car; Suspension, tires, cams, machine work, intake manifold selection or even just additional time tuning the setup.
Very good Point
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Old 12-10-2018, 08:47 PM
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Default Re: Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

I agree with K7-1Ktrevor... K.I.S.S. for the win. A factory fresh OE distributor with a simple external coil will handle 700 wheel HP reliably. I run a GSR dizzy and a MSD Blaster SS coil with NGK plug wires. No issues.
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Old 12-13-2018, 07:26 AM
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Default Re: Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

I'm probably going to try this next opportunity I get. Burton Racing COP Kit:

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Old 12-13-2018, 08:34 AM
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Default Re: Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

That setup is pretty nice and I like the way it integrates into the ecu. I remember pinging HondaRulez a few years ago when he had his first diy box and it's been neat to watch it evolve into this product along with the nice harness that Burton provides with it. I'm curious as to how well it syncs though, some of the other aftermarket stuff takes a few spins to get there and I'm not going to be happy if it has extended cranking time (like older AEM ecus with COP! ). Seems pretty normal in the video though.
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Old 12-13-2018, 04:33 PM
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Default Re: Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

Originally Posted by spAdam View Post
That setup is pretty nice and I like the way it integrates into the ecu. I remember pinging HondaRulez a few years ago when he had his first diy box and it's been neat to watch it evolve into this product along with the nice harness that Burton provides with it. I'm curious as to how well it syncs though, some of the other aftermarket stuff takes a few spins to get there and I'm not going to be happy if it has extended cranking time (like older AEM ecus with COP! ). Seems pretty normal in the video though.

I was looking at this setup a while back, but again for $400 id put that cheddar towards something else that's more needed, in my case its new tires..

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Old 12-13-2018, 08:53 PM
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Default Re: Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

Good tires is some of the best money you can spend on these cars. I've never understood the numerous people in oregon that want 500whp but run toyo proxes 4's.
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Old 12-14-2018, 08:18 AM
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Default Re: Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

Originally Posted by K7-1Ktrevor View Post
Good tires is some of the best money you can spend on these cars. I've never understood the numerous people in oregon that want 500whp but run toyo proxes 4's.
SRSLY lol
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Old 12-16-2018, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

Originally Posted by K7-1Ktrevor View Post
Good tires is some of the best money you can spend on these cars. I've never understood the numerous people in oregon that want 500whp but run toyo proxes 4's.


Yes indeed or those spend $1400 on a set of coil overs but no Camber kit or alignment lol

Last edited by TheShodan; 12-17-2018 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 01-18-2019, 04:22 AM
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Default Re: Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

I heard about the Burton setup recently and I'm intrigued (that's why I"m reading this thread)... my B16A was on factory ignition with MSD 6A w/Blaster 3 coil setup since 1996. it held up for years and years and some 80-90k miles. Then the MSD 6A box stopped working, Dave @ DNR bypass the car and the factory dizzy drives the Blaster 3 which makes it run rough. See:



Redline = with MSD 6A functioning, blue line = choppy due to no more multi spark. MSD works well in my experience. I had the same setup on project remix SOHC VTEC and it also ran smooth.
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Old 01-18-2019, 06:13 PM
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Default Re: Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

Originally Posted by exgr View Post
I heard about the Burton setup recently and I'm intrigued (that's why I"m reading this thread)... my B16A was on factory ignition with MSD 6A w/Blaster 3 coil setup since 1996. it held up for years and years and some 80-90k miles. Then the MSD 6A box stopped working, Dave @ DNR bypass the car and the factory dizzy drives the Blaster 3 which makes it run rough. See:



Redline = with MSD 6A functioning, blue line = choppy due to no more multi spark. MSD works well in my experience. I had the same setup on project remix SOHC VTEC and it also ran smooth.
The MSD 6A was so ancient to begin with, and still used the older analog signal. So, I'd chuck this data as a bit dated
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Old 01-18-2019, 10:45 PM
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Default Re: Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

I'm tempted to test the Burton system on the trusty B16A setup.
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Old 03-08-2019, 06:44 AM
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Default Re: Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

I went with the Hondata CPR kit a little over 5 years ago when street tuning after the dyno my rotor screw backed out and grenaded the entire distributor. I then found that is a common problem with road racers even with loctite that extended RPM and heat sometimes even cause the rotor to explode. I then weighed the cost of maintenance using the OEM replacement cap, rotor, and wireset, which still has the potential to blow apart and it became a no brainer. While I don't think the CPR is perfect, because the Burton one is honestly a much better idea, it has worked without issue for the 5 years now.

Did I gain any power with going COP? Not a bit on a stock motor using 93 octane, but on E85 I can adjust dwell time on the coils and likely gain drivability and some power. Did I gain reliability? Absolutely considering OEM Denso coils will go 100,000 miles without an issue which would be 3 cap and rotor replacements and a wireset in that time frame being roughly $240. So in 200,000 miles it pays for itself lmao.
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Old 03-08-2019, 07:11 AM
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Default Re: Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

I like the fact that you mention that this isn't about "gaining power", and really more to the effect of maintaining the power capability of the car that you've created. Although I'm not the biggest fan of the CPR kit from Hondata, (mainly because I don't use Hondata to begin with), I still believe that proper ignition stablisation is key when it comes to making a build. Just wanted to piggy-back off of FlewByU352's comment, because that is not a perspective you see everyday.
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Old 03-08-2019, 10:21 AM
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Default Re: Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

I agree, it's not all about the power. There is a reason that every manufacturer now uses COP and some also making use of COP in conjunction with DGI systems. Infinite Control and adaptability. 10-15 years ago people were always asking if 13:1 compression was possible with pump gas and most got laughed at......what say you now?

I realize that DGI can't be added to an older external injector cylinder head...
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Old 03-08-2019, 11:06 AM
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Default Re: Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

Originally Posted by aw614 View Post
I understand it being more necessary for higher HP builds with forced induction, but I've also been told the stock distributor is plenty for na.
@ 24:36:

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Old 03-10-2019, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

Originally Posted by CyborgGT View Post
@ 24:36:
Wild Brent @ PFI appears!
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Old 03-10-2019, 07:41 PM
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Default Re: Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

That's where I'll be taking my build for a tune! All motor H22, hoping for about 245whp (corrected, of course), and I'll still be on the stock internal coil distributor too.
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Old 03-11-2019, 09:24 AM
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Default Re: Coil on Plug vs. Distributor All motor B series: Pros/Cons of each

Originally Posted by FlewByU352 View Post
I went with the Hondata CPR kit a little over 5 years ago when street tuning after the dyno my rotor screw backed out and grenaded the entire distributor. I then found that is a common problem with road racers even with loctite that extended RPM and heat sometimes even cause the rotor to explode. I then weighed the cost of maintenance using the OEM replacement cap, rotor, and wireset, which still has the potential to blow apart and it became a no brainer. While I don't think the CPR is perfect, because the Burton one is honestly a much better idea, it has worked without issue for the 5 years now.

Did I gain any power with going COP? Not a bit on a stock motor using 93 octane, but on E85 I can adjust dwell time on the coils and likely gain drivability and some power. Did I gain reliability? Absolutely considering OEM Denso coils will go 100,000 miles without an issue which would be 3 cap and rotor replacements and a wireset in that time frame being roughly $240. So in 200,000 miles it pays for itself lmao.
This is my reasoning for wanting to go COP. I had a blue locktited rotor screw back out slightly when I went to check and replace the cap and rotor. The blue locktite turned into some white dust. I ended up just using a brand new rotor screw, but should really check how it currently looks. Honda discontinuing a lot of part is also a factor for wanting to go COP.
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