Dr.Pepehn

Hey guys, I picked up an Integra GS-R a few months ago for the drivetrain. I have been looking for a clean 88-91 Hatch shell and been thinking of what I want to do to the motor. The motor has higher miles, and I think I just want to do a few minor bolt-ons and gut whatever it is the motor ends up going into. I'd like to run a 14 flat and make around 170whp.

I think for the time being, I would like to throw in:

Mugen 2 layer headgasket
ARP headstuds
OEM timing belt set
CTR crank pulley
Hondata IM Gasket
PW JDM "Whale *****" Intake
ITR Flywheel, Header
2.5" Exhaust, Cat delete
P72 Cams
Skunk2 Pro Series Cam gears
Endyne breather kit

I have a few questions, I'm wondering if I will run into any P2V clearence issues with the Mugen headgasket? From what I understand, the B17 is identical to a B16 block & head wise, so I just use B16 headstuds, correct? I was thinking of running the P61 ecu for a little while, then upgrade to Hondata eventually..should I just do it now? Will I be running too lean with the P61? When I get Hondata, I will take it to the dyno and get it tuned, but for the time being what would an ideal setup for the Cam gears with my planned mods? I don't really care too much about losing low end power. I just picked a set up but I would like to get P72's before I put them in.

Sorry if these questions are a little generic, but I couldn't really find anything at all for the B17. Thanks guys

Dr.Pepehn

Anyone have any idea about the piston to valve clearences i may run into with a 2 layer headgasket on this motor? That's more or less what im worried about, I'm just more or less wondering what is safe when it comes to advancing or retarding cam timing. I think I should be safe to adjust them a few degrees in either direction, but I'm just more or less concerned about where the head gasket will put me timing wise.

snm95ls

IF you are only going to run the P72 cams, then you should hae no worries piston to valve clearance. I doubt that large changes in cam timing will be needed to get them dialed in.

I made 150 WHP 111 TQ (Dynojet) with mine on 96+ P72 cams, JG Edelbrock 4-2-1 2-piece header, Greddy SP2 exhaust, 2.5" cat, and a street tune done myself on Crome.

I really don't see 20 WHP lurking in the combo you have listed, but there are so many factors.


B17 block is a B16 block with a different ID stamp.

The connecting rod length is not the commonly published 132 mm. It is 132.3 which does make a difference when calculating deck clearance, and compression.


Personally, I would skip the CTR crank pulley and the whale dick intake.

patriot

iTrader: (2)

Mugen 2 layer headgasket - Modify a stock hasket
ARP headstuds - overkill for your setup
CTR crank pulley - meh
PW JDM "Whale *****" Intake - crap. buy my used AEM CAI
ITR Flywheel, Header - i prefer extremely light flywheels. fidanza are great and are well priced. that header will suck in an EF, any 4-1 sucks in an EF. buy a Bisimoto or SMSP header...it's worth it.
P72 Cams - pick up a set of springs to match, ti. retainers aren't necessary.
Skunk2 Pro Series Cam gears- round out the S2 lineup with some Pro1's or EnDyn's bumpstix
Endyn breather kit - one of the best kits on the market if you assemble and mount it properly

Dr.Pepehn

Yeah i had just picked up the adjustable cam gears because my buddy was selling them for 40 bucks and they haven't even been installed on anything yet so I couldn't pass the deal up. I decided on P72 cams because I intend on running stock valvetrain and just wanted to pick up a few more horsepower. I think the cam gears should be beneficial with the Mugen headgasket.

I'd be happy with anywhere from 150-170whp I think, should be good for a 14 flat in a gutted 90 Civic hatch, or somewhere around there

I understand skipping the whale dick intake, and I realize there isn't really any gain power wise but it would be nice to shave a little weight off the rotating assembly..but why skip the CTR pulley? I have no intention of running anything other than an alternator

patriot

iTrader: (2)

I made 147whp from by B16 with the thin gasket, light crank pulley, a CAI, a stock header and 2.5" exhaust...
Get some headwork done.
He's right about one thing, you may not see another 20+whp from these bolt-ons but it will be peppy. A proper tune will be the best thing afterwards.

patriot

iTrader: (2)

Sure the CTR will help a bit. Trust me, there isn't room for anything else other than the alternator, unless you REALLY wanna keep A/C...if you have it to begine with.

DDTECH

CTR pullies have been known for oil pump failures..

just a fyi,.. search CTR pulley or crank pulley see how many threads debut this issuse..

patriot

iTrader: (2)

True, they aren't the BEST option, but at his power level and RPM limit it wont matter enough. Get the CTR pulley.

Dr.Pepehn

Yeah i've been doing a little reading on the CTR pullies, and I think I'm going to either just shave my existing pulley and have it balanced, or get the CTR pulley and balance it as well. I totally forgot to mention that I'm kind of on the fence between all motor and boost, which is why I had ARP studs listed..but I find all motor to be a little more appealing, so I'll probably go that route. I think I'll just run this setup for a while then go for a poorman's type R setup all motor. Bisimoto headers seem to be a very good bang for the buck, I was also looking at RMF headers..either way I think I'll have to run a traction bar. I wonder if I would be better off just running the stock header for now, maybe these headers are overkill for my planned modifications at the moment?

patriot

iTrader: (2)

A quality header will help a lot. Especially one built for the B17. Not no ebay junk or knockoffs.
But like I said, I made almost as much power and torque as SNM95ls but with the stock header and no tune.

omniman

most of the mods you listed are worthless and not related to performance. or at least anything significantly measaureable. the money you wasted on breather kits, head studs and crank pulleys could have gone towards things like cams headers valve train tuning and the like, which would actually give you moar powa.

92TypeR

For your power goal, I would modify that list to look something like:

-Generic CAI
-Spoolin' Performance 4-2-1 (TODA copy) best B16/B17 header you can buy for under $600
-Fidanza flywheel & Exedy Lightweight 3-Puck Sprung clutch set (this is my setup, total weight of clutch & flywheel is 19lbs)
-Good 2.5" exhaust
-Good tune

See what that can get you. In the meantime, pick up a spare b16 head, go through it and clean it up, good valvejob and install a good valvetrain package with a moderate cam. I tuned a friend of mine's JDM B16 that made 183whp on BC3+'s on a stock block...

honda-will

p30 pistons!!!!!!

0Sales@Bisimoto.com

Sent you a pm

Dr.Pepehn

Thanks for the PM, that header looks unreal..been hearing good things about them as well. I've thought about the P30 pistons but I'm just worried about p2v clearences like i've said because I haven't really been hearing much about guys building these motors. Everyone I talk to seems to be after my crank though...lol. Honda will have you had any experience with B17s and stuffing p30's into them? I wonder if I can get away with them, 2 layer, and a lumpier set of cams

psychotech

stock B17A1 is 160hp......you would be happy with losing 10hp? The B17A1 runs 160HP 117TQ

Dr.Pepehn

a stock b17 would be lucky to make around 120whp.

leem23vtec

I just got my b17a1 back on the road with the pr3 pistons with no issues. This put my compression right around 11:1 with the stock layer head gasket. The biggest downside with the b17 motor is it having low compression compared to all the other vtec b series motors. However the p30 or pr3 pistons snap onto the p61 rods with no modification and is the best upgrade for the motor for all motor in my opinion.

leem23vtec

This is a buddy who is on g2ic.com and recently built this motor as well.

Fully Rebuilt, all machine work done at R&D Machine in Costa Mesa. ALL parts are OEM unless otherwise noted.

BOTTOM END
P30 Pistons (standard oversize)
Shot peened rods
ARP Rod bolts
ACL bearings


TOP END
ITR intake cam, P61 ex cam
TODA cam gears
ITR valve springs & retainers
ITR intake manifold
Hondata IM gasket
P72 throttle body
AEM fuel rail
B&M fuel pressure regulator
OEM injectors (cleaned)


OTHER
P30 ECU w/ Crome
OEM ITR Intake
Megan 4-1 header w/ 2.5" collector (ITR replica)
SMSP highflow cat
RS*R exhaust


Tuning was done this afternoon by Shawn Church at Church Automotive Testing using a Dynapack dyno.

188.4 hp @ 7791 rpm
139 lbft @ 6102 rpm



After that run we installed a velocity stack intake and I removed the RS*R muffler section and got 200.2 hp / 143 lbft, but the best part was 5-10 extra lbft in the 3800-4500 rpm range. With some tuning that range could be extended so that I would see good gains in torque from 2500-6000 rpm. My plan has been to use the ITR intake most of the time and then use standard 3" piping for track days and the such - well, that was definitely confirmed as a good idea. Next engine mod will for sure be a good intake followed by another session on the dyno.


Edited to add the dyno graphs.
Red = baseline
Green = after tune
Dark Blue = w/ velocity stack instead of OEM ITR intake
Light Blue = w/ velocity stack + muffler removed


* For the most part you can ignore the giant dip in power for the blue graphs, for that rpm range the ecu was adjusting timing to protect the engine. Since airflow was increased so drastically the ecu needed to do something to prevent the engine from running lean in that range. According to Shawn that should be able to be tuned to get rid of that dip. Obviously if I change my intake/exhaust setup I'll be coming back for a re-tune.


Any other questions about the b17 or builds go to g2ic.com

crx=si

stock b17a1 makes 160 CRANK hp, he asked for 150-170 WHEEL hp

crx=si

stock b17a1 makes around 145whp just like a stock b16a

psychotech

really? cuz I've seen stock ls's making 120 at the wheels. they only have 140 crank. how do you explain a 40hp drop through the drive train that only exists in the gs-r?

Slain

my old b17 with itr cams w/valvetrain, OS p30 pistons, AEM with velocity stack, itr 4-1 header, and rsr exhaust netted around 165 whp. Loved that motor

Dr.Pepehn

im just talking in general..stock motor i think you'd be around that much power..140 at the very most i would say, especially with 300,000km lol. those are good numbers slain. where did you get your p30s