jakku

Going NA on this build. I have looked up and down this site for useful information. Only thing that really comes up is people bashing b16a's for NA builds, people saying go turbo, or argueing. and yes i know omnis build. Im not fishing through all of this to find my answers. Like the title says b16a sir 2 engine tranny everything that it came out of the box with.

Not looking to change my block or turbo, already had this turbo'd.|

not looking for unrealistic numbers either.

looking for people with useful information to give me ideas and information on where to go and what to get to get full performance out of this engine. money is not a question right not so just shoot me ideas and will bounce off eachother. thanks for the help

DirtyDA9

Only way to get decent power out of it is to sleeve the block to 1.8-2.0L. Other than that, it's not worth throwing the money at. No replacement for displacement, or boost.

jakku

sleeved for 84mm bore? or b17 crank with 84mm bore?

Deetz

for the price b18 blocks are going for these days, to upgrade to a 1.8L block would give you a wonderful boost in power across the whole rpm range. It really is best bang for the buck, even N/A

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

so what would be the absolute limit of the B16 motor as it is?
without touching the block or doing any head work.

stock bore and cylinders, and stock head no valve job or porting
just upgrading parts like crank pistons rods cams etc.


this is kinda similar to people bashing on single cams few years ago.
and then bisimoto rolls out with his single cam build and everybody jumped on the bandwagon rolling around with their stock d series with IHE thinking that they can take on anything like they got bisimotos engine in it...

since i was in the honda game i remember each engine type going through a period of hatred untill soneone takes their time and rolls out with some crazy build that gets everyones attention and they all go looking for that engine...

i remember LS motors were the black sheep of the family untill people started bringing up some major numbers with boosted LS motors and in that time i could have a gsr motor for 600 bucks because nobody wanted it and LS motor was 1000 or so..

a year ago it was d series time to shine and people were trading their b series motors for D series,

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

That was because of great marketing on Bisi's part. Unfortunately, cheap d-series DIYers thought that they could do half of what Bisi did without the same level of investment and get the same results as he did; sadly, they were wrong, and realized that they were too broke to do it properly.

In the 15 years I've been around the Honda game, the D-series has, and will continue to be the black sheep of the Honda racing platform, even more than any B-series platform, including the LS... Now I understand perspectives can be different based upon one's location, but I predict that soon, the B-series engines and heads will reach a PREMIUM because of the lower number of blocks/heads that are available in the market that were destroyed from kids/knuckleheads/thieves/know-it-alls that are in the scene. The K-series is a more powerful platform, but regardless of their lowering prices, it still costs significantly more to install/tune than the B-series. So if you have B-series hard parts/blocks/engines, by all means.. keep it.

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

agree lol but lets keep it down before the prices on b seires parts skyrocket because everyone thinks they are made of gold now.

like rota wheels after japan disaster, they became REAL and trippled in price.

i wish kids would fkn read before destroying another engine.

everyone wants to be baller on a budget but not many are good at it.


many people dont even realize how much his cams alone cost lol
they **** they pants when they find out prices for each custom built part he used.

eg6 type-R

i have seen a dyno for a 100% stock b16a turbo make 500whp
its on youtube also

jakku

so the best bang for my buck would be what?

b18 block, b20 block, or to do a stroker kit and bore for 84mm?

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

what about all motor b16 besides omniman/s since he used all oem parts and did some work on the crank and head.
he did say very well in ba6 dyno thread here on HT

"Originally Posted by omniman
based on my experience the following B motors in properly built street form with a liberal budget can make the following whp reliably for their displacement/size on pump gas. with a maximum compression of 11.5:1

b16 200-205+ whp
b17 210-215+ whp
b18 215-225+ whp
b20 235-245+ whp

The majority of people will never spend the time and money to achieve those levels, because beyond time and money it takes the know how, which few have anymore."


---------------------
some numbers i found in the internets

B16a2 Head
B16a SIR1 Block
Stock IM & TB
PCT Pistons STD (CTR)
Skunk2 Tuner Stage 2
Cheap 2.25 Header
Custom 2.5 Exhaust
Crome Pro

169 whp 115 wtq
---------------------------

b16a2 with ctr pistons,
apexi ws2 exhuast,
megan racing header,
stock tb and manifold,
3 inch intake
made 162whp and 117trq tuned on s100 by inlinepro
--------------------------

100% stock usdm b16a2 99
p&p b16a head
itr cam/valvetrain
aem cam gear +2 i -2 exhaust
b&m fpr
skunk2 first gen intake
obd1 conversion with p28 chipped and tuned with crome
hondata gasket
aem cai
dc 4-1 header (2inch collector)
2.25 cat-back
test pipe
170HP 114tq
---------------------------


besides, i owned hondas with d15,d16, b18b,b16a3,and soon gsr

and i can tell you that i would pick the b16a3 over d series ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.
its kind of a tie between b16 and ls motor tho one got torque and other got VTAAAAAKKKK.


people need to understand that to fairly judge your car you gotta put it up against similar setups.
its stupid to go and race a stock single cam and then think that your car is hella fast cuz you pulled half car length on that single cam...
and its equally stupid for a v6 guy to think that is car is fast when he barely pulled on a 4 banger 1.6 or 1.8(less likely)

DirtyDA9

Look into LS VTEC, since the B18a/b blocks are cheap as spit. Just do some research, it may end up being what you decide to do.

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

well honestly money should be the question
alot of people( including me) said that money is not an issue at the begining of their build. i was planning to spend no more than 1500-2000 on mine after all said and done im about 5K into the build (thats for parts since i did everything myself)

one part of making power is displacement.
and another it the displacement of your wallet.

so the limit is more where your wallet's peak HP is.

Twin Cam

What about adding a 4.7 or 4.9 FD? I know people that hate on B16s on name alone, their tone changes after driving one with a higher FD tranny behind it. Makes up for the lack of torque they all complain about.

Uncle Dave

As Mfactory put it the replacement for displacement

Deetz

My tone changed after i bought my 1st B20Z....i will never go back to a B16. Changing the FD does performance.....even more so with a larger more powerful engine

jakku

thinking about picking up a b18 or b20z block from golden eagle.

whats a good compresion for pistons ?

Uncle Dave

For street use 11.5 to 12.5 to 1 but remember this is only part of it you need a compete
combination of the correct parts to build a reliable engine.

jakku

i understand this. any sugestions on good combination? eagle rods, sleeves, 84mm?, toda cams, not sure on brand of pistons yet, velocity stacker, still undecided on a TB

syobwoc sallad

you dont need sleeves for an all motor build unless you want to bore it...alot.what are you whp goals?get a b20 block/b16 head,~12 cr pistons,pro 2s or whatever,your choice IM/TB,rmf header,tune...200+ on a budget

SergEK

Years ago - actually almost two decades ago - when B16 swaps were 3K and B18 swaps were 4-5K there was room to slightly mod a B16 if you couldnt shell out the money for a B18C

Those are the stone age of Honda tuning...a B16 motor still goes for 900 for a newer version but an F20B goes for about the same price...the major difference...EVERYTHING...everything you love about the B16 you will find in the F20B..except its a B16 on steroids.

The 2.0L motor will make more power than ANY of the B series VTEC blocks out of the box...and when you lean on it - it has larger ports for more flow - more flow = more power

So why on earth build a 1.6L motor when a 2.0L motor costs the same amount? With NA builds there is simply no replacent for displacement and since cams, pistons etc...are pretty much the same cost youll will achieve better results with the larger motor with the larger head....why settle for 90mm stroke when you can build a 101+mm stroke motor...thats all the old guys are saying

Ive owned and raced a number of B series motors - in 2005 after realizing how much it was going to cost to build my C5 motor I was planning a K series build because I wanted a STREET motor with 240-250whp...these days thats childsplay. We can build 2.5L+ motors - so why "build" a 1.6L at all?

Bolt-ons..mabe...my J spec B16 with intake and exhaust put down 155whp...was a fun little motor...but a F20B with the same mods whould be around 180-190whp with LOADS more torque....trying to get a B16 to 190--- let alone 140+ftlbs of torque...is going to be $$$$...an F20B is 900...I seriously doubt your gonna "build" a 190+whp B16 for 900 including the cost of the motor itself...hell even if you added an extra 900 for cams...you might get to 170ish but nowhere near the torque.

We are just trying to save you money - the guys like me who are in the 30's and 40's have been there...I WISH I had access to an H2B swap 10 years ago...people saying B series motors are going be a "premium"...perhaps for classic car guys who want that old school feel...both the blocks and head can be bought NEW in the aftermarket...with stronger and better designs than OEM.

I think H and F motors will start to go up as kids catch on and skip B series motors...but whatever...everyone has their reasons for a build and maybe they want the internet bragging rights of NA B16 in stock us chassis with 3 volks 1 rota with one working tailight while wearing a CF helmet drinking a snapple....everybody wants to be recognized for something....but in the end...Id rather just be faster

Deetz

^^ Great post, and you are right, the h and f series do make awesome power, and are cheap! The last one i did was a dohc f22, cist $600, but i threw that in an Accord, still awesome though.

Any downsides to running an H2B swap? just curious.......

DirtyDA9

Too bad it's like playing where's waldo when looking for aftermarket F-series parts.

nealnanoHX

For all motor you really do have to leave the 1.6L displacement behind. Best way to do that is a LS or B20 block. My LS Vtec using a stock B16 head full rebuilt and a stock B18B1 block with ARP rod bolts made 161whp and 122lbft with just IHE and tuning, a 4-2-1 header with 2 inch collector 2.5 cat back and still running a stock 99 Si cat. Tyr to get that out of a stock B16 with the same mods, just aint going to happen.

Mach1n1st

I am also building a b16 I have the perk of being a machinist and can experiment with different things the find out what works the best I will have 84mm 12.5:1 bore and factory b16 stroke and factory b16 deckheight to keep the same rod angularity but the head will be a bit more extensive in work to be done. over the years I have experimented with many ports and chamber configurations and have found a good allmotor port and chamber.I'm hoping to get 230-240whp with maybe if I'm lucky 120ftlbs .I've chosen ferrets valvetrain and a.497 266duration cam porting and unshrouding out to 84mm to match the bore ,itb's and a vibrant headder I'll be starting a thread to show what I'm doing if anybody has and tips I would love any advise b 16 ftmfw

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

I donno why its still an engine yes its 1.6 but b16 still is a better choice to build than a single cam...
Theres always a bigger displacement engine but a b16 is still a fun engine to drive.
I mean a simple upgrade like itr parts would gain some power and relatively inexpensive.
Itr intake manifold can.be found for 125 cams 300 bucks springs retainers 100-150.
Yes you can go from d15 to z6 to b16 to gsr etc but then you can just go straight to k24 boosted