kuja396

I figured the all motor guys would have some insight into this question.

I purchased a head stud kit for a Honda with a b16 part number 208-4601 and according to the directions i was to tighten the bolts in the factory order in three steps to achieve a final value of 80 ft lbs of torque while using the ARP low friction lube.

When I finished the installation I went back over the bolts with the torque wrench and two of the 10 bolts kept spinning, as if i stripped the threads in the block.. I stopped after about a half a turn.... is there a possability that I stripped my block?! Has anyone ever heared of this?

I followed directions exactly as they were given to me. Three seperate equal tightening sequences, use the ARP Moly Lube.. Pretty straight forward.....

non-VTEC

80ft/lbs with moly is to tight. re-read the instructions.

did you hand tighten the studs in the block?

you might as well pull all the studs out and check whats going on.

FST GSR 1

Did you finger tighten the studs or gorilla hand them to the bottom of the blind hole?

kuja396

I used an allen wrench to tighten it all the way down, then i backed off about a quarter turn so it was loose..

Its simple directions, and I did it correctly according to the paper. But I started doing some research after the bolt felt a little stripped feeling and apparently I was only supposed to torque to 65 ft lbs... wtf

Oh and to clarify the paper there, it states 80 ft lbs with moly lube or 85 ft lbs with straight 30 weight oil.

ruffrhyder

iTrader: (1)

If you used moly you only needed to torque them to 60 ft/lbs. 80 ft/lbs if you used 30w. To torque the head down, you do it in 25 ft/lb increments. First 25 ft/lbs, then 50, then 63 (if using ARP supplied moly lube), or to 75 and then 80 (if using 30w oil). After you torque to the final torque value, go back and retorque in the proper order, to the same final torque value (63 or 80 depending on what lube you use).


Modified by ruffrhyder at 7:15 AM 7/31/2008

kuja396

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ruffrhyder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you used moly you only needed to torque them to 60 ft/lbs. 80 ft/lbs if you used 30w. To torque the head down, you do it in 25 ft/lb increments. First 25 ft/lbs, then 50, then 60 (if using ARP supplied moly lube), or to 75 and then 80 (if using 30w oil). After you torque to the final torque value, go back and retorque in the proper order, to the same final torque value (60 or 80 depending on what lube you use).</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats what I did, 25, then 50, then i went to 80.

Why did I get the wrong instructions?! god this car has been a constant pain in the *** since I've gotten it.. ugggh

ruffrhyder

iTrader: (1)

My mistake 63, not 60 ft/lbs
Look on the 'Torque Specs' page 24
http://www.arp-bolts.com/Catalog/Catalog.html

kuja396

Interesting... so why would the paper that i took a picture of, that came in the sealed box tell me its a 7/16th inch stud and to torque it to 80 ft lbs??!!?!?

Doesn't
Make
Sence!!

This car is like a constant, never ending, pain in the ***

Like if I was in hell this is what I would imagine, me constantly working on a car that is riddled with problems, this ish drives me insane.


So where do I go from here? Dispite me following what the included instructions said I am in this jam. The bolts didnt strip out all of the way, but I'm sure they are not all torqued exactly the same.. Do I just say F it and run the car anyways?

The car is all back together and I cranked it last night, for me to tear it all down and helicoil it would be a bitch.

projectTeG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kuja396 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Interesting... so why would the paper that i took a picture of, that came in the sealed box tell me its a 7/16th inch stud and to torque it to 80 ft lbs??!!?!?

Doesn't
Make
Sence!!

This car is like a constant, never ending, pain in the ***

Like if I was in hell this is what I would imagine, me constantly working on a car that is riddled with problems, this ish drives me insane.


So where do I go from here? Dispite me following what the included instructions said I am in this jam. The bolts didnt strip out all of the way, but I'm sure they are not all torqued exactly the same.. Do I just say F it and run the car anyways?

The car is all back together and I cranked it last night, for me to tear it all down and helicoil it would be a bitch.</TD></TR></TABLE>

dont run the car, the head will leak. get really versed in how to do heli-coils, or find someone with a timecert kit. remove head a fix threads.

kuja396

Im not really sure what it could hurt, therefore I think I might try and run it for now. I dont want to invest anymore time in this engine than I have to. I let it idle last night for a good 5 mins and it seemed to run good. Or I might take the head off, I dunno

projectTeG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kuja396 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im not really sure what it could hurt, therefore I think I might try and run it for now. I dont want to invest anymore time in this engine than I have to. I let it idle last night for a good 5 mins and it seemed to run good. Or I might take the head off, I dunno </TD></TR></TABLE>

head warping and leaking could be an issue, since there are 2 spots that arent properly seated.

Turbowa

I would not run that motor. Fix those 2 holes. Its not that expensive. You could end up doing a lot more damage then you thing and then you will really be mad and down for a while having it fixed.

kuja396

Alright alright, I'll pull the head off again, you've convinced me. Hopefully nothing will be too messed up. Apparently 63 ft lbs is where its at. Thanks for the advice, I'll keep you updated.

projectTeG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kuja396 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Alright alright, I'll pull the head off again, you've convinced me. Hopefully nothing will be too messed up. Apparently 63 ft lbs is where its at. Thanks for the advice, I'll keep you updated.</TD></TR></TABLE>

contact arp about the mis information on the instructions, maybe they can send you a free set of studs?. good luck, just get the thread pitch of the studs and get a helicoil kit or a timecert kit. it doesnt take long, just make sure you block the holes off in the block so when you drill it doesnt get in the engine.

ruffrhyder

iTrader: (1)

I would contact ARP and let them know about the incorrect spec sheet they sent you, then expain to them how you block in now stripped cause of their mistake. They really can't put the blame on you since you were following the instructions they sent you. I would demand compensation. Pulling off a head and rethreading a block in the middle of summer isn't fun. Unless you have a fully air conditioned garaged

kuja396

I did contact ARP earlier and I was completely honest and he asked if i lubed up the threads that go into the block. I didnt and I told him that I didnt and he told me that that may be the reason I'm having this problem, RIGHT AFTER he told me the instructions I got were incorrect... Then he told me 70 ft lbs was the correct measurement............ wtf

I dont see why you would need to lube up the studs in the block, they dont move when you tighten everything down.. Would you agree with that or am I mistaken?


After the bolts have had more stretch on them than normal did that affect the bolts? and do I need to get a new headgasket now? Those things are like $60.

ruffrhyder

iTrader: (1)

Lubing the block end of the studs allows the stud to turn smoother and engage more threads since you should only be using your fingers.

kuja396

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ruffrhyder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Lubing the block end of the studs allows the stud to turn smoother and engage more threads since you should only be using your fingers.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Like I said earlier, I tightened them all the way down with an allen key, then when it got all the way to the bottom i backed it off about a 1/4 turn so they didnt have any pressure applied to the block.

Bump for the questions:
-Is it possible that my headstuds are stretched too far and need new ones?
-Do i need to get a new expensive *** headgasket?

ruffrhyder

iTrader: (1)

I got a new Felpro HG, I'll sell it you you cheap, PM me if you want it.

projectTeG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kuja396 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Like I said earlier, I tightened them all the way down with an allen key, then when it got all the way to the bottom i backed it off about a 1/4 turn so they didnt have any pressure applied to the block.

Bump for the questions:
-Is it possible that my headstuds are stretched too far and need new ones?
-Do i need to get a new expensive *** headgasket?</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes get a new gasket and no, its not likely you stretched the studs(just inspect for flaws difference in thinkness of the stud).

ive gotten away with reusing a headgasket, but that because i was short on time.

stumpyf4

I would double check that your torque wrench is calibrated properly. I checked 3 clicker type torque wrenches when I installed my head, we had one that would click @ 90ft-lb when set to 80. I didn't use that torque wrench for assembly.

I think 80ft-lbs is the correct spec for 9mm ARP head studs with moly. My Golden Eagle studs called for 72ft-lbs with the Torco assembly lube. ARP usually specs a higher torque than competitors hence my reason for going GE's.

projectTeG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stumpyf4 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would double check that your torque wrench is calibrated properly. I checked 3 clicker type torque wrenches when I installed my head, we had one that would click @ 90ft-lb when set to 80. I didn't use that torque wrench for assembly.

I think 80ft-lbs is the correct spec for 9mm ARP head studs with moly. My Golden Eagle studs called for 72ft-lbs with the Torco assembly lube. ARP usually specs a higher torque than competitors hence my reason for going GE's.</TD></TR></TABLE>

with moly 80ftlbs sounds to high, i would believe 80ftlbs with oil than moly, its the other way around. moly= lower tq oil= higher. moly makes it easier to overcome the threads friction.

allmotorek4

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kuja396 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I used an allen wrench to tighten it all the way down, then i backed off about a quarter turn so it was loose..

Its simple directions, and I did it correctly according to the paper. But I started doing some research after the bolt felt a little stripped feeling and apparently I was only supposed to torque to 65 ft lbs... wtf

Oh and to clarify the paper there, it states 80 ft lbs with moly lube or 85 ft lbs with straight 30 weight oil.</TD></TR></TABLE> he used an allen... from wat i remember arp studs dont have allen ended studs .... i

jvtec95

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by allmotorek4 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> he used an allen... from wat i remember arp studs dont have allen ended studs .... i</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes they do, at least my GSR ones did.

ruffrhyder

iTrader: (1)

I don't know about B16 studs but my GSR studs have allen ends.