anti reversion chambers in the header?
03-03-2005, 06:27 PM
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Re: anti reversion chambers in the header? (DonF)
Oops, sorry about the stock 4AG motors. I didnt know, well I know for a fact that they are 1.6 liters. So now we need to test the anti inversion headers.
03-03-2005, 10:54 PM
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Re: anti reversion chambers in the header? (S2 INSIDER)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by S2 INSIDER »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i know that skunk has already done the tests. on an engine dyno.</TD></TR></TABLE>
We must talk to the same people..lol
We must talk to the same people..lol
03-04-2005, 08:38 AM
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Re: anti reversion chambers in the header? (answer3)
The guys with very high budgets Toyota Atlantic, IRL, NASCAR have tested them, none run them, is the answer starting to come through. Or you could just buy a set, dyno them and let us know how they did.
03-04-2005, 10:04 AM
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Re: anti reversion chambers in the header? (eLusive ek4)
You guys are all imbeciles!!!!
You don't have a Clue about what you're talking about!
John has collaborated with NASA caliber scientists using state of the art CFD to explore parts of the realm of performance that few of you can even imagine! John is so far into it that he probably has high velocity pressure waves bouncing back and forth inside his skull.
John (and a few others - like Larry) are the kind of people you ask "Can it make XXX horsepower?" and they reply by saying that the question is really "How much more than XXX horsepower will it make?"
Not that horsepower is that important anyway. People who are really in the know will always select the motor with the lower horsepower curve, and work to lower the rpm at which peak torque develops. You don't get it? That's because you don't get it.
And anyway, he doesn't have to prove anything because even if he did you couldn't understand it!
The very idea of a bunch of fools trying to "prove" this kind of thing on a dyno - hilarious. Just shows the depth of ignorance. It's not about how much power an engine makes - it's about how fast it accelerates - which really has nothing to do with how much power it makes.
Scott, who's tired of people dissing John and Larry...
You don't have a Clue about what you're talking about!
John has collaborated with NASA caliber scientists using state of the art CFD to explore parts of the realm of performance that few of you can even imagine! John is so far into it that he probably has high velocity pressure waves bouncing back and forth inside his skull.
John (and a few others - like Larry) are the kind of people you ask "Can it make XXX horsepower?" and they reply by saying that the question is really "How much more than XXX horsepower will it make?"
Not that horsepower is that important anyway. People who are really in the know will always select the motor with the lower horsepower curve, and work to lower the rpm at which peak torque develops. You don't get it? That's because you don't get it.
And anyway, he doesn't have to prove anything because even if he did you couldn't understand it!
The very idea of a bunch of fools trying to "prove" this kind of thing on a dyno - hilarious. Just shows the depth of ignorance. It's not about how much power an engine makes - it's about how fast it accelerates - which really has nothing to do with how much power it makes.
Scott, who's tired of people dissing John and Larry...
03-04-2005, 10:30 AM
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Re: anti reversion chambers in the header? (eLusive ek4)
Casey,
Aw - I'm just goofing.
I don't know that much myself - but I got a nose and I know what BS smells like.
You strike me as straight, and not one of those hand waving wizard types.
You don't know who Larry is? Endyn Larry. Been one of my favorite reads on the web for quite some time.
I'd be curious - can you expand on your last sentence?
Scott, who barely understands why I'm writing either...it didn't even seem like that good of an idea at the time.
Aw - I'm just goofing.
I don't know that much myself - but I got a nose and I know what BS smells like.
You strike me as straight, and not one of those hand waving wizard types.
You don't know who Larry is? Endyn Larry. Been one of my favorite reads on the web for quite some time.
I'd be curious - can you expand on your last sentence?
Scott, who barely understands why I'm writing either...it didn't even seem like that good of an idea at the time.
03-04-2005, 10:34 AM
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Re: anti reversion chambers in the header? (RR98ITR)
Ahhh Scott as i dont know you i have read some of your stuff and should have figured. 
well on the last sentance most people are always looking for peak horsepower correct? well most ignorant people
MY whole thing is, what good is peak horsepower if your rarely there? Why not lower the curve or make more power below the curve so you can expand on the useable rpm range! Horsepower from 8000-8500 rpm = worthless when ur usally shifting at that point.
Casey - who realized that he too has never seen scott out of the RR/AX forum and wonders why he is signing posts like this?
well on the last sentance most people are always looking for peak horsepower correct? well most ignorant people
MY whole thing is, what good is peak horsepower if your rarely there? Why not lower the curve or make more power below the curve so you can expand on the useable rpm range! Horsepower from 8000-8500 rpm = worthless when ur usally shifting at that point.
Casey - who realized that he too has never seen scott out of the RR/AX forum and wonders why he is signing posts like this?
03-04-2005, 10:35 AM
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Re: anti reversion chambers in the header? (DonF)
the 4ag has similar geometry, etc. to the b16a, which John has said works better when primaries for cyls 1-4 and 2-3 are paired than when 1-2, 3-4 are paired, as in the long tri-y headers for b18s and b20s lower (~1.58:1 r/s ratios). this might have some bearing on the absence of AR chambers, or whether they function well for this application. i'm not doubting or espousing the chambers' functionality. if S2 or others have done tests, though, i'd just like to see the results. i've heard compelling arguments from both sides, but i'd like to see results.
03-04-2005, 10:36 AM
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Re: (Black R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">.....
Back... BACK!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
What? You holding up a cross? That's not gonna work? Try a titanium strut bar.
Scott, who comes out of the RR/AX forum every so often to look around...what a strange and fascinating world out here..."tell me more about this bling you speak of"...
Back... BACK!
</TD></TR></TABLE>What? You holding up a cross? That's not gonna work? Try a titanium strut bar.
Scott, who comes out of the RR/AX forum every so often to look around...what a strange and fascinating world out here..."tell me more about this bling you speak of"...
03-04-2005, 10:40 AM
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Re: anti reversion chambers in the header? (eLusive ek4)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eLusive ek4 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...MY whole thing is, what good is peak horsepower if your rarely there? Why not lower the curve or make more power below the curve so you can expand on the useable rpm range! Horsepower from 8000-8500 rpm = worthless when ur usally shifting at that point.
Casey - who realized that he too has never seen scott out of the RR/AX forum and wonders why he is signing posts like this?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Casey,
THAT MUCH I totally get.
What I was talking about was going faster with a curve with lower values Everywhere.
Scott, who's first clue that he'd crossed the line into insanity was when he noticed he'd started signing like this...
Edit: BTW - Johns header made lotsa power and won my own imperfect little header test on a stock untuned setup. If he, or someone else made a really nice snaily looking long primary 4-2-1 that merged to the secondaries before going under the pan I'd think seriously about it...
Modified by RR98ITR at 1:10 PM 3/4/2005
Casey - who realized that he too has never seen scott out of the RR/AX forum and wonders why he is signing posts like this?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Casey,
THAT MUCH I totally get.
What I was talking about was going faster with a curve with lower values Everywhere.
Scott, who's first clue that he'd crossed the line into insanity was when he noticed he'd started signing like this...
Edit: BTW - Johns header made lotsa power and won my own imperfect little header test on a stock untuned setup. If he, or someone else made a really nice snaily looking long primary 4-2-1 that merged to the secondaries before going under the pan I'd think seriously about it...
Modified by RR98ITR at 1:10 PM 3/4/2005
03-04-2005, 10:55 AM
#39
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Re: anti reversion chambers in the header? (RR98ITR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Casey,
THAT MUCH I totally get.
What I was talking about was going faster with a curve with lower values Everywhere.
Scott, who's first clue that he'd crossed the line into insanity was when he noticed he'd started signing like this...</TD></TR></TABLE>
remember man, this is the allmotor forum. people care more about dyno #'s and qtr mile times than roadcourse and handling aspects. a motor with a lower avg hp will more than likely loose to a motor with a higher avg hp considering the vehcles are setup the same almost every time
Casey,
THAT MUCH I totally get.
What I was talking about was going faster with a curve with lower values Everywhere.
Scott, who's first clue that he'd crossed the line into insanity was when he noticed he'd started signing like this...</TD></TR></TABLE>
remember man, this is the allmotor forum. people care more about dyno #'s and qtr mile times than roadcourse and handling aspects. a motor with a lower avg hp will more than likely loose to a motor with a higher avg hp considering the vehcles are setup the same almost every time
03-04-2005, 11:27 AM
#40
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Re: anti reversion chambers in the header? (johnzm)
Slofu, you might want to find out the R/S ratio of the 4AG, ( hint its alot lower than the B-16 Honda) the bore and stroke are similar though.
03-04-2005, 03:01 PM
#41
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Re: anti reversion chambers in the header? (RR98ITR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If he, or someone else made a really nice snaily looking long primary 4-2-1 that merged to the secondaries before going under the pan I'd think seriously about it...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Why do you want it this way?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Why do you want it this way?
03-04-2005, 03:42 PM
#42
HT White Ops
Re: anti reversion chambers in the header? (SMSP)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SMSP »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why do you want it this way?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Dave, you should know that the only language Scott speaks is sarcasm.
Dave, you should know that the only language Scott speaks is sarcasm.
03-04-2005, 03:58 PM
#43
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Re: anti reversion chambers in the header? (SMSP)
Dave,
If it's gonna be alot of money - and it is - then doing the job isn't enough; it's got to be trick and sano.
Think about the beautiful shapes that snake off an F1 car's exhaust ports. That's what it would take for me to make the jump.
I know it's silly but I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting my chit to look right - especially when the $$$$ pass the 4th digit.
As to the rest of the why: I want ground clearance equal to that of the pan so I only have to buy one header, and I want to keep the pipes as far away from the pan as possible to keep down the heat gain.
Scott, who has almost lost interest in going faster with horsepower, and won't trade a few tenths for a few mechanical dnf's. But I have a lingering interest in a bolt on gain of about 10hp across the whole powerband if it meet my other criteria.
If it's gonna be alot of money - and it is - then doing the job isn't enough; it's got to be trick and sano.
Think about the beautiful shapes that snake off an F1 car's exhaust ports. That's what it would take for me to make the jump.
I know it's silly but I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting my chit to look right - especially when the $$$$ pass the 4th digit.
As to the rest of the why: I want ground clearance equal to that of the pan so I only have to buy one header, and I want to keep the pipes as far away from the pan as possible to keep down the heat gain.
Scott, who has almost lost interest in going faster with horsepower, and won't trade a few tenths for a few mechanical dnf's. But I have a lingering interest in a bolt on gain of about 10hp across the whole powerband if it meet my other criteria.
03-04-2005, 04:43 PM
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Re: anti reversion chambers in the header? (RR98ITR)
Temp not an issue.
You are racing a car with constant air flow, you aren't sitting in bumper to bumper traffic on the freeway, at 100 degrees with the air conditioning on.
03-04-2005, 04:50 PM
#45
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Re: anti reversion chambers in the header? (RR98ITR)
RR, have you ever considered a Viper, good ground cl. on headers, both John or Dave could get you 10BHP across the board (maybe a good air filter) especially with good resonant tuning, and anti-backfire muffler bearings. Yates told me they work.
03-04-2005, 05:00 PM
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Re: anti reversion chambers in the header? (RR98ITR)
Or, I think I told you I could build you the following. BTW, this drawing was finished on July 10, 2001.
SMSP - Who thinks Scott's polishing the wrong pipes
SMSP - Who thinks Scott's polishing the wrong pipes
03-04-2005, 06:05 PM
#48
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Re: anti reversion chambers in the header? (DonF)
I know I have asked some pretty sharp people.About the sound wave killers.And done some unbiased studies.I would say what I think, but I hate getting yelled at.
Especially by A one sided, self proclaimed know it all.And I'm not saying any names.
And Don ,Don't be silly.You should know that nobody uses anti-backfire
muffler bearings..............Without having Alluminized,anodized,hardfaced,unbreakable tempest clips holding on the Knuter bearing in the Johnson Rod for the piston return spring.Maybe you missed that memo.
Especially by A one sided, self proclaimed know it all.And I'm not saying any names.
And Don ,Don't be silly.You should know that nobody uses anti-backfire
muffler bearings..............Without having Alluminized,anodized,hardfaced,unbreakable tempest clips holding on the Knuter bearing in the Johnson Rod for the piston return spring.Maybe you missed that memo.
03-04-2005, 07:16 PM
#49
HT White Ops
Re: anti reversion chambers in the header? (RMF)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RMF »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And Don ,Don't be silly.You should know that nobody uses anti-backfire
muffler bearings..............Without having Alluminized,anodized,hardfaced,unbreakable tempest clips holding on the Knuter bearing in the Johnson Rod for the piston return spring.Maybe you missed that memo. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Don't forget about the titanium **** ring. Never forget about that, or you could burn all of your turn signal fluid.
And Don ,Don't be silly.You should know that nobody uses anti-backfire
muffler bearings..............Without having Alluminized,anodized,hardfaced,unbreakable tempest clips holding on the Knuter bearing in the Johnson Rod for the piston return spring.Maybe you missed that memo. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Don't forget about the titanium **** ring. Never forget about that, or you could burn all of your turn signal fluid.