4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder - Honda-Tech - Honda Forum Discussion

Go Back  Honda-Tech - Honda Forum Discussion > Honda and Acura Technical Forums > All Motor / Naturally Aspirated
Reload this Page >

4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

All Motor / Naturally Aspirated No power adders

4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

Reply

 
 
 
Old 01-29-2016, 02:11 PM
  #1  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
4piston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Indianapolis, USA
Posts: 4,559
Default 4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

I haven't posted a build here in a long time. I put snap shots of our daily operations up on Facebook, but there is something about a story line on a forum that can't be replaced by modern social media. I get lost in some of the neat projects...mostly because I'm used to it and it just seems "normal" around here. These forums are eternal, and a great resource for people. Social media will never replace that.

Objective:
The customer was an interesting case. He had purchased an engine from another shop and had never received it. He had purchased a head from a reputable porter, and six years later still has not received it. To say that he was hesitant and needed to be sold on this is a drastic understatement. The entire process from start to finish was rather grueling...I must admit. I say that with affection now that I have gotten to know this person rather closely. The goal was to provide one of his customers with an H22 that he could take to the drag strip and make some noise with. Beat up on some unsuspecting competition. H22 guys are unique in a way...it costs just as much to build these as a K motor, its really quite a bit more work from a labor standpoint for us, and it has some dimensional challenges. There is something that makes H22 guys really loyal to the H22. Its a pretty engine inside the car....by far a better looking engine than a K series in an engine bay....it has some history...and it has been overlooked and underestimated from day one. These engines can make big power. The fact that people skipped over this platform before the K series came out in favor of a B series is pretty insane. There were pro stock teams dumping serious money into B series when this thing with an equal effort would have walked all over them.

Specs:
-100mm Stroke x 90mm Bore
-15:1+ compression
-LA Sleeve Ductile Iron Sleeves
-GRP Aluminum Rod
-4Piston Pro H22 CNC Cylinder Head with 36mm intake and 30mm exhaust
-Custom Web Camshafts 3 lobe camshaft....somewhere between .500 and .600 lift
-4Piston CNC Ported Skunk2 Ultra Race K-Series manifold port matched and mounted with a ported Skunk2 adapter plate
-KS Tuned Tensioner

I hope you all enjoy the photos of the build....

Some of these builds start out with all new stuff from Honda...when we are lucky. Most the time its an old engine that shows up on a skid....its been through 100,000 miles or more of daily driven hell, salty winters, sometimes a lack of oil changes...and who knows what else. They are ugly, and need us to revive them. These old engines aren't a bad thing...in fact we prefer to use an old seasoned block for the real big hp turbo builds...we know the integrity of those blocks are good and they have been heat cycled where stuff isn't going to move around. Rameybuilt took care of installing the heavy duty LA Sleeves in this block.


The rotating assembly is a lightweight CP piston from Rosko Racing, a 100mm billet stroker crank, and GRP aluminum pro stock rod.


There is significant interference with the big crank and aluminum rods. It takes some patience and a little know-how to go through and make room for the big displacement.


The crank and rods will glide on ACL race bearings. We take extra care to make sure there are no particles or hair on these bearings, and we really try to minimize the impact of our measurement tools on these critical components.


There is more than one way to skin a cat on clearancing the girdle for the big stroke and rod. We machined into the oil rails and made u shaped plates that were welded in. This was the cleanest way to accomplish this and get the clearance that we were looking for. We made them as to not get into the path of oil flow, but add thickness where we otherwise would have removed material. The end result is plenty of clearance, and plenty of structural integrity for the oil system.


Looking down the bore, you can see the notching required for the rods to clear.


Aluminum rod can be seen from this angle as its rotated through the block


Josh and Matt Preparing for assembly. Our clean room is cleaned before each build, and we have HEPA filters on a dryer to keep this room free of moisture and dust particles in the rest of the shop. Since its cold right now....the shop is heated with solar tubes on the roof of our building that circulate glycol through the floor in PEX tubing. If there is no solar, there is a backup boiler. Keeps your feet and tools warm with radiant heat!!


15:1 punch sticking up through the beefy LA Sleeve


The 350cfm cylinder head getting ready to be assembled. The cool thing about this project when we put it on facebook is that it stirred up some old H22 love from customers and also from the guys in the shop. We are dedicating several weeks this year to a revisit of the H22 platform to apply many of the things we have learned on K engines the last couple seasons....things that have taken high 300hp K engines to high 400hp K engines. I'm looking forward to making a big push forward on H22 head development in the next few weeks. Its time to pound out some big numbers over 400.


Inhale!!


Top end goes on, cams get degreed. We assemble the engine with 1 cylinder and test springs to check clearance and degree the cams. Then it all goes bench top to go through valve to valve clearances at various camshaft positions. This way the customer has a GO / NO GO gauge for what they are allowed to do on cam movement down the road.


KS Tuned Manual Tensioner handles the timing belt duties


Top her off with an official 4P "Strip Club" red valve cover.




4P CNC Ported K series Ultra was setup for the Pro 156 K series head, and we port matched the Skunk2 adapter plate to allow for a seamless install


We snapped a couple pics with our Kinsler 67mm ITBs on the engine......and the customer just couldn't stand it. He ordered a set for himself today.


Hope you all enjoyed this.

Last edited by 4piston; 01-29-2016 at 07:20 PM.
4piston is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2016, 02:59 PM
  #2  
been there done that
iTrader: (1)
 
doood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: earth
Posts: 11,867
Default Re: 4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

Amazing stuff Luke. Hope one day one of those motors coming out of your shop will be a super99 for myself.
doood is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2016, 04:01 PM
  #3  
Honda-Tech Member
 
93egSLEEPER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seahawks WA, USA
Posts: 7,637
Default Re: 4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

I've been following this on IG as well and always wondering what the specs were. Awesome to see a forum build thread on it. Now I can sleep at night LOL. As always, top notch stuff out of 4P
93egSLEEPER is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2016, 04:16 PM
  #4  
Steve at Heart
 
Bently_Coop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,916
Default Re: 4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

Great stuff for the H22.
Bently_Coop is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2016, 05:07 PM
  #5  
Honda-Tech Member
 
bluehbcivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Quebec
Posts: 603
Default Re: 4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

Very very nice!!!
bluehbcivic is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2016, 05:34 PM
  #6  
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 398
Default Re: 4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

Is this running the psi spring setup?
yungmulacrx is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2016, 05:43 PM
  #7  
Honda-Tech Member
 
scottcraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Lake Charles, LA
Posts: 311
Default Re: 4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

That is nice!
scottcraft is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2016, 11:45 PM
  #8  
Honda-Tech Member
 
DC-2uned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 1,181
Default Re: 4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

Fantastic as always 4piston! Great read...love builds of this caliber. So I've seen my fair share of mid to maybe high 3xx hp H builds, I know that's doable with enough disp, comp, cam and fuel(that FTW makes serious gains). I know you can't/won't share exact cam specs but other than that, what makes this one or the next H the one that will do 400+ in your opinion? It's really all in the port, right? For sure, IM and header choice are definitely crucial but I would say the CNC program for the head has to be the single most important thing, and I've seen yours are second to none. I know K's built to this degree have GRPs and some great designed/coated pistons as the norm. So once you've built the bottom end as light and durable as possible, the real numbers come down mostly to cam and port design I'd assume, which have definitely improved over H's from 10+ years ago.

We've seen a return of H's with H2B swaps a few years ago, maybe builds like this will cause a bigger comeback. (I know it's just a base but, f20b's and h23vtec's are pretty damn cheap)

Last edited by DC-2uned; 01-30-2016 at 12:16 AM.
DC-2uned is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 02:53 AM
  #9  
Honda-Tech Member
 
kr3w108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 488
Default Re: 4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

Great build . You do not see very many H motors these days
kr3w108 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 04:18 AM
  #10  
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
 
AZ_CIVIC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 1,313
Default Re: 4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

I love the clean environment you guys create when doing this kind of work. I hate seeing disorganized areas with messes everywhere. It seems like you guys take time to ensure everything is perfect which as a customer I like seeing.
AZ_CIVIC is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 06:00 AM
  #11  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
4piston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Indianapolis, USA
Posts: 4,559
Default Re: 4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

Originally Posted by yungmulacrx View Post
Is this running the psi spring setup?
It has a PAC spring. Had there been more funds allocated to the project it would have had a roller cam and the PSI.

Originally Posted by DC-2uned View Post
Fantastic as always 4piston! Great read...love builds of this caliber. So I've seen my fair share of mid to maybe high 3xx hp H builds, I know that's doable with enough disp, comp, cam and fuel(that FTW makes serious gains). I know you can't/won't share exact cam specs but other than that, what makes this one or the next H the one that will do 400+ in your opinion? It's really all in the port, right? For sure, IM and header choice are definitely crucial but I would say the CNC program for the head has to be the single most important thing, and I've seen yours are second to none. I know K's built to this degree have GRPs and some great designed/coated pistons as the norm. So once you've built the bottom end as light and durable as possible, the real numbers come down mostly to cam and port design I'd assume, which have definitely improved over H's from 10+ years ago.

We've seen a return of H's with H2B swaps a few years ago, maybe builds like this will cause a bigger comeback. (I know it's just a base but, f20b's and h23vtec's are pretty damn cheap)
Great questions. This engine is not the engine that will reach 400. The goal was to make respectable power on race gas...mid 300s. If we put it on FTW black it would make pretty impressive numbers, but these guys don't have it available to them. In order to break 400 it will be a methanol motor with a bigger valve and a larger camshaft. If there were more people putting a serious race effort and budget behind these engines it would have already happened. Keep an eye on our FB page for info about the new cylinder head...it has some pretty neat stuff that makes some power.

Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC View Post
I love the clean environment you guys create when doing this kind of work. I hate seeing disorganized areas with messes everywhere. It seems like you guys take time to ensure everything is perfect which as a customer I like seeing.
Thanks. Its more enjoyable to work in an atmosphere where its organized and the cleanliness is important to the build....its definitely important to the customer. We put a lot of hours into each project so we have to be efficient when we can be.
4piston is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 06:40 AM
  #12  
Honda-Tech Member
 
DC-2uned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 1,181
Default Re: 4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

Originally Posted by 4piston View Post
.Great questions. This engine is not the engine that will reach 400. The goal was to make respectable power on race gas...mid 300s. If we put it on FTW black it would make pretty impressive numbers, but these guys don't have it available to them. In order to break 400 it will be a methanol motor with a bigger valve and a larger camshaft. If there were more people putting a serious race effort and budget behind these engines it would have already happened. Keep an eye on our FB page for info about the new cylinder head...it has some pretty neat stuff that makes some power.
OK, understood. And I'll take a look on FB for updates, already follow you guys on IG.

Some more q's...You threw the 67s on just to see how good they looked but he actually ordered some, so what size did you recommend for this build? Is 67 overkill or 62-64 not enough?

Have you guys ever built or done work on a "reverse head H" like the old BTCC Accords?(Also a guy on here building one, for I believe a white Crx) I know it's an advantange having the intake in the front of the bay. Curious if you see it worth the time/$? I know they used to make pretty good power(high 2xx-low 3xx hp) lap after lap without much displacement(2.0L limit I believe) in the race series. And hey, it makes one more trait it'd share with a K.

I'd also guess that for a 400+ motor, dry sump would be nice too but, it does add like $3-5k to a build...
DC-2uned is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 08:38 AM
  #13  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
4piston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Indianapolis, USA
Posts: 4,559
Default Re: 4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

We did 67s for his build. This engine would do great on 64s, but the larger ones carry more after peak on engines that need the air. Truth be told...we have made over 400whp on 62mm ITBs and vp fuel.

We have not done a reverse H and if anyone wanted to pay us to do it, I would urge them to run a K motor. That would be a better use of funds and would make more power. On a dimensionally equal K series (1mm smaller stroke) we are well over 400whp. Better combustion chamber, better airflow, and you can put a lot of camshaft in it.

Dry sumps can be tricky on all these engines. Making power with them isn't cut and dry, and there are systems out there that aren't great designs for making power...some of them are only good for saving space and keeping things oiled. We have used dry sump systems that make horsepower, and we've used systems that can pull 22 inches of vacuum no problem and they lose 10+hp compared to a stock pump!

I'm going to try to get a couple cans of black to these guys so they can string it out and see what she will do....as long as they are up for it. Their track won't hold what this thing is going to make on Q16
4piston is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2016, 08:50 AM
  #14  
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (6)
 
kingofbattle909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,316
Default Re: 4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

yes plz
kingofbattle909 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2016, 05:03 PM
  #15  
Honda-Tech Member
 
ESP.net's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Puget Sound, WA
Posts: 1,977
Default Re: 4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

H22 103mm Stroke and Steel Rod next please! lol
ESP.net is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2016, 05:17 PM
  #16  
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (2)
 
PSI GUY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Riverview, NB, Canada
Posts: 568
Default Re: 4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

I can't justify the switch to K series down the road, but I've been thinking about going to an H-build to keep costs down that way I can retain the drivetrain where with K series I'd have to switch everything. I've been following the H build as well, can't wait to see how you guys progress with things and develop more with the OG Honda big block. If we don't see 300 out of the B series this year, I'll be swapping for a H.
PSI GUY is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2016, 06:10 PM
  #17  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
4piston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Indianapolis, USA
Posts: 4,559
Default Re: 4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

Originally Posted by ESP.net View Post
H22 103mm Stroke and Steel Rod next please! lol
Say when, we are ready. Let's do a 106

Originally Posted by PSI GUY View Post
I can't justify the switch to K series down the road, but I've been thinking about going to an H-build to keep costs down that way I can retain the drivetrain where with K series I'd have to switch everything. I've been following the H build as well, can't wait to see how you guys progress with things and develop more with the OG Honda big block. If we don't see 300 out of the B series this year, I'll be swapping for a H.
That's the great thing about the H22...you can get it into the car a lot cheaper.
4piston is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2016, 06:16 PM
  #18  
Honda-Tech Member
 
scottcraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Lake Charles, LA
Posts: 311
Default

I'm rebuilding a b20vtec for my car right now, but this thread is making me wish I would have went h2b.
scottcraft is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2016, 10:51 AM
  #19  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
4piston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Indianapolis, USA
Posts: 4,559
Default Re: 4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

Originally Posted by scottcraft View Post
I'm rebuilding a b20vtec for my car right now, but this thread is making me wish I would have went h2b.
A properly built and sized B series can make 300 and will last a long time. A 280hp 2 liter can be a shitload of fun on the street and you can thrash on them for years.
4piston is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2016, 04:52 PM
  #20  
Honda-Tech Member
 
scottcraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Lake Charles, LA
Posts: 311
Default Re: 4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

Originally Posted by 4piston View Post
A properly built and sized B series can make 300 and will last a long time. A 280hp 2 liter can be a shitload of fun on the street and you can thrash on them for years.
That's good to know in case I ever want to take my motor up a few notches.
scottcraft is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2016, 09:44 PM
  #21  
Honda-Tech Member
 
PyroProblem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 4,167
Default Re: 4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

Beautiful work as always. Thanks for continuing to push these older platforms to new levels of performance. Only a few left in the industry it seems like. It looks like you're keeping oil squirters? I take it you don't subscribe to the idea of there not needed like many people do? I personally think oil squirters are a great addition and can benefit an engine even with forged internals. It's all about keeping that piston cool right? Have you guys found a way to keep oil squirters on b series with 92 millimeter and up cranks by chance? I would love you forever.
PyroProblem is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2016, 06:45 PM
  #22  
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 652
Default Re: 4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

Simply gorgeous.
1991_crxsi is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2016, 05:21 AM
  #23  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
4piston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Indianapolis, USA
Posts: 4,559
Default Re: 4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

Originally Posted by PyroProblem View Post
Beautiful work as always. Thanks for continuing to push these older platforms to new levels of performance. Only a few left in the industry it seems like. It looks like you're keeping oil squirters? I take it you don't subscribe to the idea of there not needed like many people do? I personally think oil squirters are a great addition and can benefit an engine even with forged internals. It's all about keeping that piston cool right? Have you guys found a way to keep oil squirters on b series with 92 millimeter and up cranks by chance? I would love you forever.
We don't keep them in all engines. We have plenty of engines that run fine without them. Honestly this engine could have run without them no issue in a drag race application with mild fuel.

We run squirters in endurance engines, and we have been putting them in some drag race engines that run very hot burning fuel additives.

If we build you an engine, we can get the squirters in there on a 92 stroke. Those little modifications are an example of us taking the time to go the extra mile for the benefit of the customer.
4piston is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 10:59 AM
  #24  
Honda-Tech Member
 
PyroProblem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 4,167
Default Re: 4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

That's awesome. Keep up the great work and thanks for sharing stuff here for those of us who aren't on Facebook.
Some day before I die, I'm gonna have you guys build me a 400 hp k series for a 1959 Sprite I have in my family.
PyroProblem is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 06:21 PM
  #25  
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 652
Default Re: 4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder

I'm excited about the new H series head development you guys have in the works. I have been on the fence between you and RLZ for a while. Do you guys want a test dummy to send you a head?
1991_crxsi is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: 4P H22 - 2.55L from Honda's original big block 4 cylinder


Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: