xXx Justin xXx

THIS PROBLEM STARTED IN THE SUMMER MONTHS... AS IN: BEFORE WINTER

97 3.2 w/ 105k miles. my mixed city/hwy driving used to land me between 360-380 miles to a tank driving it as i pleased. here is the sequence of events... btw I still drive the same exact routes I have driven since I have owned this car..

CEL was on for EGR. filled up gas tank, Took it to Acura, had a friend (a tech. there) clean it all out. EGR CEL went away but now I immediately had a CEL for the o2 sensor. from that tank on I was down to about 335-340 miles/tank. Figured ok, maybe its just the o2.

about a month later I got it in and had the same friend at Acura replace the o2's and the CEL went away. well within a couple weeks I was down to about 315 miles/tank at BEST (Im talkin running on fumes and taking 16.5 gallon to fill back up).

I took it back to Acura and had the plugs and coils replaced. And now I am lucky to get 305 miles/tank.

so WHAT THE CRAP could be the problem here? I mean granted it is only like 3-4 miles per gallon I have lost... I dont understand why. It went about 6-7 months of ownership with consistant tank mileage then just dropped. PLEASE offer any educated guesses! TIA.

and FYI I have tried going to different gas stations and no luck.


Modified by xXx Justin xXx at 9:05 AM 12/10/2007


Modified by xXx Justin xXx at 11:46 PM 12/10/2007

YeuEmMaiMai

Winter time and auto climate control = crappy gas milage. In the summer I get 24-25 mixed in my CL and in winter time I get 22-23...........even my highway milage dropped from 32 down to 30.5 at 72mph

xXx Justin xXx

thanks but i dont use my auto climate control function, and i always make sure it says a/c off so the heat gets hotter. and it has been doing it since when it was still 90 degrees outside.... none of the driving conditions or weather conditions changed while the gas dropped? thats why i am so stumped.

YeuEmMaiMai

so, you never use your defroster?

also winter blend fuel adversely affects MPG

xXx Justin xXx

if i hit the defrost for the front glass i only use it to get it on that vent. i hit the button to turn the a/c back off and i hit the economy button to keep it inside air, and the hot air works just fine. again... this problem has been going for months... not just since it was cold and winter time.

mjholla19

try using some injector cleaners and did u buy bigger rims or add weight

xXx Justin xXx

NOTHING changed. 6-7 months of consistent mileage within 15 miles/tank.... one saturday morning I had 369.x miles and was on E, filled it up, drove 15 miles to the Acura shop where my friend fixed the EGR insufficient flow problem, by the end of that tank of gas I barelly had 330 miles. a month later, still in the same season, same tempuratures outside etc... I went back to acura and had the o2 sensors replaced... shortly after that I was (still am) down to 306-315 miles/tank.

the EGR cleaning and o2 sensors, plugs, + coil packs changing are the ONLY changes. And the drop didn't start until the EGR + pipes were cleaned



Modified by xXx Justin xXx at 9:09 AM 12/10/2007

YeuEmMaiMai

lol no use trying to explain it to you............

they changed to winter blend fuel and that will casue your MPG to go down, also did you get crappy gas?

xXx Justin xXx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lol no use trying to explain it to you............

they changed to winter blend fuel and that will casue your MPG to go down, also did you get crappy gas?</TD></TR></TABLE>

really????? they change to winter blend fuel in the beginning of JULY?!?! if you would read i said this started months ago... when it was summer time, and 90 + degrees. it has nothing to do with winter fuel mixter. this isn't a recently developed problem... it is a problem I have been having for months.

but appearantly there is no use explaining my problem to YOU b/c you won't read. and I tried several different gas stations, including going back to using the few I always did. And did this too back when it was still summer. And I usually fill the car up every 4-5 days b/c I have to drive so far to work..

dtapia

you stated yoy have 105k on the car.what has been done to the car ? i would check the map voltage and see where it is at might be on the high side of 1.05 volt's and if so sounds like a valve adjustment may be needed. also you mentioned their is new coils and plugs was their any miss fire codes or anything besides the egr ? also if your friend can take a spap shot of the data list and post it i may be able to give more help on this.

1bad-eg

105k...... valve lash, old air filter maybe? Simple things like that can cause mileage to go down. Do you ride alone, with people?

xXx Justin xXx

uhm, trying to remember all questions..... yes 105k miles. nothing has been done modified wise. the above listed changes (replaced parts) are the only work done since I have had it the last 10 months...

the air filter I just checked friday, it is getting dirty, could use changing.

no there werent any misfire codes or problems before I had that stuff changed out. I was just informed that getting 1 free "tune up" replacing plugs and coils was covered under the cars extended warranty to 150k miles, so I figured what the hell, why not, couldn't hurt the problem anymore...

I'll look into getting a read out on the MAP. Thanks

Also Im thinking the fuel filter definately needs to be changed. I dont know how often they're supposed to be replaced, but I bought the car with 87,500, and it hasn't been changed since I have owned it... and I have put 18k miles on it (mostly highway).

also 93% of my mileage is with just me in the car, not a lot of cargo either.

Kenso

I'd say try the easiest thing first, pop in a new air filter and recheck the gas mileage. FWIW, these cars have hydraulic tappets, so the valve lash is self adjusting.

dtapia

my bad i didnt see the year.

YeuEmMaiMai

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xXx Justin xXx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

really????? they change to winter blend fuel in the beginning of JULY?!?! if you would read i said this started months ago... when it was summer time, and 90 + degrees. it has nothing to do with winter fuel mixter. this isn't a recently developed problem... it is a problem I have been having for months.

but appearantly there is no use explaining my problem to YOU b/c you won't read. and I tried several different gas stations, including going back to using the few I always did. And did this too back when it was still summer. And I usually fill the car up every 4-5 days b/c I have to drive so far to work.. </TD></TR></TABLE>


lol i don't know where to begin since you had a momentary lapse of intelligence and LEFT OUT ALL OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS LIKE DATES.........

get your foot out of the throttle..........lol that is the last advice one can give since obviously tried everything else.......plugs, wires, etc.........

is engine at proper operating temp, maybe time for a new tstat.........

1bad-eg

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dtapia &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my bad i didnt see the year.

</TD></TR></TABLE>Oops, me too

MugenHonda

Winter time is poorer quality fuel.
Air is more dense, thus the vehicle takes longer to warm up and uses more rpms to get to running temp.
Thus you use more gas, it is just the way it is

xXx Justin xXx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MugenHonda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Winter time is poorer quality fuel.
Air is more dense, thus the vehicle takes longer to warm up and uses more rpms to get to running temp.
Thus you use more gas, it is just the way it is
</TD></TR></TABLE>

this started in July. NOT winter time.


Modified by xXx Justin xXx at 11:48 PM 12/10/2007

YeuEmMaiMai

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xXx Justin xXx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Jesus Christ. for the 100th time. <U>READ</U>. !!!!!!! how many times do I have to state that this started in <U>JULY</U>. NOT winter time. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I guess if you weren't such a dumbass, and actually mentioned this in your first post, people would not be giving you the correct advice for this time of the year...........next time you post, why not PROOF READ IT AND MAKE SURE ALL OF THE IMPORTANT DETAILS ARE PRESENT?

the original post is dated 9:06 AM 11/27/2007 so what do you expect when no information is given?.........lol

xXx Justin xXx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I guess if you weren't such a dumb ***, and actually mentioned this in your first post, people would not be giving you the correct advice for this time of the year...........next time you post, why not PROOF READ IT AND MAKE SURE ALL OF THE IMPORTANT DETAILS ARE PRESENT?

the original post is dated 9:06 AM 11/27/2007 so what do you expect when no information is given?.........lol

</TD></TR></TABLE>

My FIRST response back to you I said that it had been going on since it was still 90+ degrees outside... and you STILL responded back to that post about winter mixture.. so please, tell me how that is my error? Yes I left it out originally, you suggested it (which I appreciate b/c I didn't know about different fuel mixtures), and responded saying no... it has been going on etc.. you ignore my response to the time period and then try to insult me by saying I am a dumb *** or I had a gap of intelligence.

and when I try to help somebody... usually i look down to other responses to see what has already been suggested, and to the OP responses since uhm.. people suggest a fix, the person might try it, post a response. kind of like a drawn out trouble shooting. Im not some little dumb *** kid you may think I am, so how about trying to have a little respect for a fellow member before thinking you're the smartest person and everybody on here is below your intelligence level.



Modified by xXx Justin xXx at 11:50 PM 12/10/2007

YeuEmMaiMai

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xXx Justin xXx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

ok 1. f*** you and just stay out of my post. 2. if you READ there were a few mentions of time gaps like several weeks, a month or so... etc. and the mention that it has been going on, its not like i said this one tank.

Even my FIRST response back to you I said that it had been going on since it was still 90+ degrees outside... and you STILL responded back to that post about winter mixture.. so please, tell me how that is my error? Yes I left it out originally, you suggested it (which I appreciate b/c I didn't know about different fuel mixtures), and responded saying no... it has been going on etc.. you ignore my response to the time period and then try to insult me by saying I am a dumb *** or I had a gap of intelligence.

and when I try to help somebody... usually i look down to other responses to see what has already been suggested, and to the OP responses since uhm.. people suggest a fix, the person might try it, post a response. kind of like a drawn out trouble shooting. so again. F*** off and stay out of my thread. Im not some little dumb *** kid you may think I am, so how about trying to have a little respect for a fellow member before thinking you're the smartest person and everybody on here is below your intelligence level.


Modified by xXx Justin xXx at 9:14 AM 12/10/2007</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol I think you got issues becuase you fail to see that MULTIPLE PEOPLE HAVE PROBLEMS WITH YOUR POST all the while telling to us to f'off and learn how to read.....

I already told you a possible answer

<FONT COLOR="red">CHECK TO SEE IF YOUR CAR IS AT OPERATING TEMP....... AND NO YOU DON"T USE THE GUAGE IN THE CAR TO FIGURE THIS OUT.</FONT>

I'll be nice and give you a hint.......since this is an auto, are your RPMs where they should be or are they up a little? If your car fails to reach operating temp, it will cause your gas milage to suffer even more than just the change to winter fuel.

the torque converter will not lock up properly when the car is cold...........but hey you claim you are smarter than I am so..........

do you wonder why there are nearly 570 views and only 21 replies?

xXx Justin xXx

ok. lets try this again. without my yankee ******* attitude. I know I left out info about times, but when you pointed stuff out about winter fuel mixture etc.. i stated since summer. YOU got that, others did not. I should have updated the original post then... now taken care of.

570+ views, wasnt paying a bit of attention to views.

I definitely NEVER said I was smarter than you. You have pointed out several things that I was/am clueless to knowing. I just took offence to being called a dumb *** like Im some stupid little 17 yr old kid that is just trying to figure out cars, cuz I haven't been there in a looong time.

I do have issues... more than I can list that slowly drive me INSANE by the hour.. but thats my personal life, not car stuff...

I know you said not to trust the Temp gauge, but it is in the same location it has always gone to, and from what I can tell the car cruises along at the same rpm. Normally around 2k crusing about 50mph around the city, and 2700 about 75mph on the highway. It is idling about 750 as normal when fully warmed up. seems normal?

this weekend the air filter and fuel filter will get changed when I get paid. The AF is pretty nasty, and the fuel filter... well I bought that car with 87,300ish and now it has 105,750 and I haven't changed it... no telling when the last time it was done, if ever. I dont know how often they're supposed to be changed.

YeuEmMaiMai

when I had my '94 accord the temp guage went to the same spot even though the t-stat was stuck partially open. However the car did not engage the lockup consistantly and my mpg went from 25 average in the city down to 23.5. Replacing the tstat and flushing the system resolved the issue and the car operated normally.

air filters should be changed once a year or when they start showing excessive dirt. Personally I do it once a year or about every 20K miles

Your car may not have a fuel filter so you might want to check on that before you try to buy one 98+Accords don't have them and that is basicaly what the TL is built off of.

since you have done all of the required things (you mentioned plugs 02 etc) it is time to look at some more complicated things

do this and report back

start the car and let it warm up
turn the heat on full blast and highest temp

does your hand get so hot that it feels like you are getting burned? if so good proceede to next step

take the car for a drive does the heat output remain constant? if so then you are good there if not, change out your tstat


what are the rpms when you drive at a constant 60? they should be 1800 to 2000 if they are above 2500 you got a problem (would someone with a 97 TL reply with their rpms at 60?)

xXx Justin xXx

the heat gets hot as crap within maybe 3 minutes (when it is like 40 degrees outside and the car has been parked all night) and stays blazzing hot. I will report back after going to lunch when I can test rpms... pretty sure its about 2200-2500? I know its right at 3k (maybe 2900) @ 80mph. sitting at work, can't go test.

And it does have a fuel filter. Sitting right up in the open slightly to the left of the brake booster (when looking at firewall).

YeuEmMaiMai

this is a 3.2L right? becuase at 70 it should be 2.5K tops