blacksheep

- it's heavy
- it looks like the product of a Honda Odyssey and a Ford Focus having sex
- it can't out perform it's predecessor without a decent amount of mods
- i've never even lost to one in my LS w/ GSR tranny
- and only 160 hp out of a 2.0 is pretty much a let down from honda

jon volk

EG's and EK's are getting older and crunchier. As finding a clean car gets harder, and the price of EP's starts coming down to under $10k theyll get more attention. There's always going to be the guys that like hatches better and for someone looking to build a K-series powered hatch, the EP3 will be the most affordable and easiest solution in a few years....they'll be popular soon enough. I like haveing a head start on mine

SiR Phil

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blacksheep &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">- it's heavy
- it can't out perform it's predecessor without a decent amount of mods
</TD></TR></TABLE>
LMAO!!! Stock vs. stock, the EM1 vs. EP3 is a driver's race, every time. Once the mods start rolling in (the SAME mods on both), EP3 owns the EM1. Go look at all the different dyno publications on this. As for 160hp in a 2.0L engine: it's called torque... you should try it sometime. Hell, EPs can even beat up on DC5 type S cars in the 1st two gears... after which the extra revs and HP of the type S totally take over, but you get my point.

Mechanic

Why no love for the EP Civic Si? Ultimately, it comes down to two things: Aesthetics and expectations. If the CTR had been imported, we wouldn't be having this discussion. As it is, the current Si is "merely" a good Honda -- it's just not a great one.

One thing's for certain, however: The next Si is going to more expensive. Probably much more expensive. I'll be amazed if Honda prices it under $22.5k. It's also hard to imagine that dealers will discount the car. How this may impact the perceptions of the current model is anyone's guess. But for those of us who knew what we were getting, there hasn't been a downside to buying a hugely discounted Si.

Battle Mike

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blacksheep &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">- it's heavy

- and only 160 hp out of a 2.0 is pretty much a let down from honda</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah, NA wise the k20a3 just wasn't that great. boosted it's awsome.

MrGrimm

i dont care what people say i love my egg!

giff74

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by k20 jon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">EG's and EK's are getting older and crunchier. As finding a clean car gets harder, and the price of EP's starts coming down to under $10k theyll get more attention. There's always going to be the guys that like hatches better and for someone looking to build a K-series powered hatch, the EP3 will be the most affordable and easiest solution in a few years....they'll be popular soon enough. I like haveing a head start on mine </TD></TR></TABLE>

Amen to that. I think they are already becoming more popular on the pre owned market. I also think George summed it up, they just didnt live up to initial expectations, not to mention consumers are fickle.

I REALLY enjoy my ep3, bang for the buck. I considered a G35 for quite a while, love the 2+2 seating and golf clubs fit in the trunk, but like was mentioned earlier.....I have a mortgage, a wife, a kid, another car not yet paid for and the Honda sales manager is a really good friend/client of mine so the deal was easy. I hadnt driven one since they first came out in '02 and passed at the time, this time Rob, my friend, said I wouldntind anything that drove any better for the money so I went and drove it. I was out the door for $17 something, car, tax, license and an 8 million mile warranty (not worried about voiding for engine mods, its the little things I like insurance on, I am a VW owner also so try to understand, I crave reliability).

Now 6 months in I love the car, just got back from vacation so I now have my eye on improving the suspension and losing those damn tires. Just doing these 2 things really will make the car handle so much better. Next year it will be the JRSC race setup, making 220 ish WHP.

K20A3dc5rsx

It is very simple why there is no love for the current civic si. Honda new we all wanted a new hatchback like the 92-95 civic's, but they totally screwed up the design. The car does not sit low enough, plus the car also looks like a tiny minivan, which is not cool. The rest of the vehicle I think is great, the engine should have a little more power, but the overall setup is very good.

iRRATiONAL

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tomek &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The only rational things in my mind that would make me think why people don't like it as much is because of the McPherson strut design</TD></TR></TABLE>
the main thing i dont like about it. yeah a K20A2 would have been nice too but...I like my EP3

penguin

Like alot have said before:

1) Yes, it's heavier than the EM1. However, this isn't by much (02-03 Si).
2) Suspension was unfortunately changed more than likely due to fiscal restraints. Not that big of a deal as most change suspension mods out of the box anyway. Look at almost every EM1. Not many stock rolling around.
3) Power. Same hp as EM1 but hella more tq. It's a drivers race all day. Just like said before; the exact same mods will pull on an EM1. Yes, cost wise the EP3 mods might be more, but you also get alot more.
4) Asthetics; debate this all day long. It just comes down to what an individual like
5) I'm 30, have a mortgage on a very large home, own a 2004 Xterra, wife, 1 kid, 3 dogs and 2 cats. You tell me what's more important. I'd rather have my nice 'lil car than show off to my neighbor.
6) I walked out the door with mine at 15k with TT&L. I couldn't do that with ANY other comperable car.
Here's my car

nos4a2si

i love my ep3...........but i must admit........the honda odessy getting its groove on with the focus.........thats hilarious.

Ajax

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by surferchad122 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Coming from "Steve"... How old are you Steve? What's a guy with such a manly name as Steve doing driving a shortened Honda Odyssey?

Now, the weight factor... After owning a 2000 Si, and many other cars including a 2004 STi, and now a 1999 Hatch I can safely say that 100-250 lbs that you have listed as the weight differences between the years have a TREMENDOUS impact on a car's overall feel, including acceleration, braking, steering, etc.


Just wait until the ITR guys get a hold of this one...

EM/EK&gt;EP, DC2R&gt;DC5R </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, if you want lighter weight, you should just buy a B16 CRX.

blacksheep

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiR Phil &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
As for 160hp in a 2.0L engine: it's called torque... you should try it sometime.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ha ha ha!!!! You obviously can't read.. I drive a 94 LS. It has 127 lb/ft of torque stock.. the EP3 only has 132 lb/ft.. WOW a whopping 5 more lb/ft of torque!!! I'm really missing out huh?? I'm just saying that my engine is a 1.8 liter that honda made over 11 years ago for their base model Integra which doesn't even have VTEC. The EP3 is powered by a 2.0 liter that was just recently designed with i-VTEC technology, and all they could come up with was 5 more lb/ft of torque??? We all know what honda can do with a 2.0, just look at the S2000. Now u see my point? I just wanna know why the holdin out on the EP3.. and as for the EP3 vs. EM1.. my old EM1 ran 10.1 in the 1/8th bone stock.. i can't imagine that out of a bone stock EP3.

fastdelpozzo

i ran 10.0 flat at irwindale's 1/8 with only a aem cai

liteyouup

Yeah, well build both motors, and see who has more torque then. If you disagree, you don't need to insult anyone with comments like "you can't read" and dumb @$#@# like that. Chill out, it's a discussion.

SiR Phil

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blacksheep &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ha ha ha!!!! You obviously can't read.. I drive a 94 LS. It has 127 lb/ft of torque stock.. the EP3 only has 132 lb/ft.. WOW a whopping 5 more lb/ft of torque!!! I'm really missing out huh?? I'm just saying that my engine is a 1.8 liter that honda made over 11 years ago for their base model Integra which doesn't even have VTEC. The EP3 is powered by a 2.0 liter that was just recently designed with i-VTEC technology, and all they could come up with was 5 more lb/ft of torque??? We all know what honda can do with a 2.0, just look at the S2000. Now u see my point? I just wanna know why the holdin out on the EP3.. and as for the EP3 vs. EM1.. my old EM1 ran 10.1 in the 1/8th bone stock.. i can't imagine that out of a bone stock EP3.</TD></TR></TABLE>
And apparently your reading comprehension skills are just as lacking. Thanks for the personal shot, by the way... makes you look very mature at arguing.

I see your point regarding what Honda can do with a 2.0L engine, but is it really fair to compare a 32k roadster to a 16k (forget MSRP, no one pays that on an EP) hatchback?

Secondly, I can also agree that it would have been nice to have the K20A2 from the type S in the EP, but we're stuck with the A3. Yes, it makes less HP, yes, it has a lower redline, yes, it doesn't have "real" vtec.

All I am trying to say is, for what it does have, it does it very well. And I am telling you... again, that the EP3 will stay with an EM1 all day long while both stock, but once the mods roll in, the EP will beat the EM1 over and over again. And again, I'm going to reiterate, the EP has considerable grunt off the line... it's up top where it runs out of gas, in part because it can't rev high enough (and doesn't have the internals strong enough to withstand it either, should you remove the rev limit)

specialblend154

for everyone who says that the ep3 is ugly and wouldnt drive it..





i know its hilliers car but still there are many ep3's rolling around that look very simililar just using usdm replica fitment. i didnt like the ep3 before i got it but im please'd now. i still wouldnt mind having a b18c ek hatch or even an ls vtec eg or anything along those lines but when you can have a car with alot of potential and have a cd player, sunroof, power windows/ doorlocks, recaros and a very nice dash setup out of the factory you kinda learn to love it.

CBXweb

From a review of the 1992 Honda Civic Si on April 19, 1992 from the Chicago Tribune

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jim Mateja &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Even though you can pass most gas stations without having to stop, the price you pay is having to cover the machine with a tarp once you reach your driveway-to protect you from the giggles or outright guffaws of friends and neighbors who see it....................


The hatchback`s elongated rear-end design makes the car look like a mini station wagon. Adding to the dumb styling is a rear spoiler extending out over the hatch glass in back that looks like an awning.

The new design for `92 tapers the glass on the rear side window. The effect is to make the glass look ``pinched,`` and thus smaller, which only magnifies the awning look from the spoiler.....................


The Si`s mileage is great, but if you want a car that looks like a wagon, you might as well wait until this fall when the Saturn station wagon bows, complete with a driver-side air bag and ABS-plus plastic body panels that won`t rust. </TD></TR></TABLE>

So even back then people didnt like the EH Si, but now (or a few years back) those are one of the better platforms to start with.

penguin

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The Si`s mileage is great, but if you want a car that looks like a wagon, you might as well wait until this fall when the Saturn station wagon bows, complete with a driver-side air bag and ABS-plus plastic body panels that won`t rust.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, which one's are worth more now. Saturns or the Si's...lol

EgRedSi

I looked at it again and it's confirmed....it look like an escape pod from The Starship Enterprise.

EgRedSi

I looked at it again and it's confirmed....it looks like an escape pod from The Starship Enterprise.

liteyouup

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EgRedSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I looked at it again and it's confirmed....it looks like an escape pod from The Starship Enterprise. </TD></TR></TABLE>

OOOOH. Owned by a trekkie. I'm so hurt. Next they'll look like something from D&D.

liteyouup

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by liteyouup &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

OOOOH. Owned by a trekkie. I'm so hurt. Next they'll look like something from D&D.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just messing with ya!

George Knighton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blacksheep &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You obviously can't read.. I drive a 94 LS. It has 127 lb/ft of torque stock.. the EP3 only has 132 lb/ft.. WOW a whopping 5 more lb/ft of torque.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The K motors in the Civic Si, the CRV and Element are tuned for driveability.

It's not just that they have torque, it's that it comes on at very low speeds and power remains fairly constant across a wide RPM range.

I'm not going to get in a fight with kids about the relative merits of the motor. It does the job, even if it does not fit the perceived image of what an "Si" is supposed to be.

George Knighton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by specialblend154 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">for everyone who says that the ep3 is ugly and wouldnt drive it..</TD></TR></TABLE>

I dunno, bud. That still looks pretty ugly!