went to the 2006 civic ride and drive today, got to drive the 06 si
08-24-2005, 05:41 AM
#51
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Re:
The recipe for the 99-00 Civic Si was almost perfect for the north american market, and why what Honda is giving us now isn't the same and why I don't think this car will sell any better than the current gen RSX-S.
People don't want a 2900lb Civic Si with Navi. Leave that crap for Acura or the higher level Hondas.
People don't want a 2900lb Civic Si with Navi. Leave that crap for Acura or the higher level Hondas.
08-24-2005, 06:28 AM
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Re: Re: (Todd00)
Ok, so the big question - what is the WEIGHT of this thing?! Did any of you guys get a spec sheet on it? I'm wagering about 2850lbs. What's the wheel diameter and width?
No more hatch.
It's already a pretty well proven fact that hatches don't sell in the US market. So I don't think we'll ever see a hatch again.
I personally never figured out why the 99-00 Si was hyped so much. That torqueless wonder that was heavier than any other civic at the time. But I guess it had 'real' vtec.
No more hatch.
It's already a pretty well proven fact that hatches don't sell in the US market. So I don't think we'll ever see a hatch again. I personally never figured out why the 99-00 Si was hyped so much. That torqueless wonder that was heavier than any other civic at the time. But I guess it had 'real' vtec.
08-24-2005, 08:15 AM
#53
I said I don't want a title!
Re: Re: (Burgh)
The 99-00 Civic Si was torqueless, but it also had a B series motor that had a ton of available parts and it was pretty cheap to buy.
Plus, that was one of the easiest cars to work on in the Honda lineup, not to mention it was a good looking car--better looking than the 3rd gen GSR IMO.
Like I said...it was a good formula that wasn't too far removed from the 89-95 Civic Si's. Today's Si, starting with the EP3, was a huge departure. I would have much rather seen a USDM Si based on the 01-05 Civic coupe than what we got. It would have been lighter, smaller and cheaper.
Plus, that was one of the easiest cars to work on in the Honda lineup, not to mention it was a good looking car--better looking than the 3rd gen GSR IMO.
Like I said...it was a good formula that wasn't too far removed from the 89-95 Civic Si's. Today's Si, starting with the EP3, was a huge departure. I would have much rather seen a USDM Si based on the 01-05 Civic coupe than what we got. It would have been lighter, smaller and cheaper.
08-24-2005, 09:40 AM
#54
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Re: Re: (Todd00)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The 99-00 Civic Si was torqueless, but it also had a B series motor that had a ton of available parts and it was pretty cheap to buy.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It only had a ton of aftermarket parts because it had been around for several years already. There are still new parts coming out for K-series motors (but some, like adjustable cam gears, are obsolete anyway).
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Like I said...it was a good formula that wasn't too far removed from the 89-95 Civic Si's. Today's Si, starting with the EP3, was a huge departure.</TD></TR></TABLE>
They had to move on -- the B-series had to be killed off.
Honda didn't misjudge the US market by bringing the hatch -- they misjudged by not giving it the faster K20A motor. They had to protect the precious-to-the-US Acura brand by making the EP slower than the RSX-S, while the overseas CTR could keep pace with the DC5 Integra.
The 02-05 Si doesn't suck; it just doesn't have the top-flight motor that it deserved.
FWIW, I'm still disappointed in Americans' taste for less-practical cars -- coupes, SUVs, etc. I just couldn't bring myself to owning anything with a trunk anymore.
It only had a ton of aftermarket parts because it had been around for several years already. There are still new parts coming out for K-series motors (but some, like adjustable cam gears, are obsolete anyway).
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Like I said...it was a good formula that wasn't too far removed from the 89-95 Civic Si's. Today's Si, starting with the EP3, was a huge departure.</TD></TR></TABLE>
They had to move on -- the B-series had to be killed off.
Honda didn't misjudge the US market by bringing the hatch -- they misjudged by not giving it the faster K20A motor. They had to protect the precious-to-the-US Acura brand by making the EP slower than the RSX-S, while the overseas CTR could keep pace with the DC5 Integra.
The 02-05 Si doesn't suck; it just doesn't have the top-flight motor that it deserved.
FWIW, I'm still disappointed in Americans' taste for less-practical cars -- coupes, SUVs, etc. I just couldn't bring myself to owning anything with a trunk anymore.
08-24-2005, 09:50 AM
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Re: Re: (Todd00)
In all honesty, as long its a K20a"?" -i have nothing but love.
More available swaps, which hopefully brings prices down (in 3-5years when i'm ready).
As for the 06 si, like everyone i too would love to have navi unit.
More available swaps, which hopefully brings prices down (in 3-5years when i'm ready).
As for the 06 si, like everyone i too would love to have navi unit.
08-24-2005, 10:45 AM
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Re: Re: (M75)
Wanna know why the 2000 Si was so hyped? look at it. Its gorgeous. I think its such a good looking car, id say it looks better than a Ferrari 355, the NSX, the Celica (any year) any dodge, the Lamborghini Gallardo, The Subaru STI, any corolla, or any Focus. The stock 2000 Civic Si in blue was such a good looking car, it really was, and the VTEC change was night and day, it sounded sporty, fun to drive, and just made you feel happy, because it was fun and felt faster than it was. It was just a great car, overall, it was fantastic.
P.S. whats the ****** point of sat. nav. on a Civic Si? Thats a street racer car, its a cruiser, and you go where the road takes you, cruise around, and show off. That makes sat. nav. kinda pointless, what kid is gonna use it? I wouldn't. I'd rip it out and put in a DVD player.
P.S. whats the ****** point of sat. nav. on a Civic Si? Thats a street racer car, its a cruiser, and you go where the road takes you, cruise around, and show off. That makes sat. nav. kinda pointless, what kid is gonna use it? I wouldn't. I'd rip it out and put in a DVD player.
08-24-2005, 12:23 PM
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Re: Re: (Redline96LX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Redline96LX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wanna know why the 2000 Si was so hyped? look at it. Its gorgeous. I think its such a good looking car, id say it looks better than a Ferrari 355, the NSX, the Celica (any year) any dodge, the Lamborghini Gallardo, The Subaru STI, any corolla, or any Focus. The stock 2000 Civic Si in blue was such a good looking car, it really was, and the VTEC change was night and day, it sounded sporty, fun to drive, and just made you feel happy, because it was fun and felt faster than it was. It was just a great car, overall, it was fantastic.
P.S. whats the ****** point of sat. nav. on a Civic Si? Thats a street racer car, its a cruiser, and you go where the road takes you, cruise around, and show off. That makes sat. nav. kinda pointless, what kid is gonna use it? I wouldn't. I'd rip it out and put in a DVD player.</TD></TR></TABLE>
....and I'll bite my tounge about comparing it to an f355 since taste is subjective.
The 06 Si I do like, the fact that it has the motor it deserves and an lsd is a BIG plus.
I'm iffy about the interior, I don't like the speedo on that seperate tier. But the tach cluster looks really nice.
I wish they kept the dash shifter, but again, the general public thinks its goofy so thats probably why they outsed that.
I wonder if the mac strut suspension has been revised at all from the ep3 or rsx. Or if its identical. i.e the length of the tie rod ends and such.
Does it still have electronic ps?
I'll be keeping my ep over this so far
I prefer the hatch design, the interior, and the fact that it may gain more of a 'cult car' status. And its only a motorswap and an lsd trans away from remaining competitive with the 06.
Modified by Tomek at 3:36 PM 8/24/2005
P.S. whats the ****** point of sat. nav. on a Civic Si? Thats a street racer car, its a cruiser, and you go where the road takes you, cruise around, and show off. That makes sat. nav. kinda pointless, what kid is gonna use it? I wouldn't. I'd rip it out and put in a DVD player.</TD></TR></TABLE>
....and I'll bite my tounge about comparing it to an f355 since taste is subjective.
The 06 Si I do like, the fact that it has the motor it deserves and an lsd is a BIG plus.
I'm iffy about the interior, I don't like the speedo on that seperate tier. But the tach cluster looks really nice.
I wish they kept the dash shifter, but again, the general public thinks its goofy so thats probably why they outsed that.
I wonder if the mac strut suspension has been revised at all from the ep3 or rsx. Or if its identical. i.e the length of the tie rod ends and such.
Does it still have electronic ps?
I'll be keeping my ep over this so far
I prefer the hatch design, the interior, and the fact that it may gain more of a 'cult car' status. And its only a motorswap and an lsd trans away from remaining competitive with the 06. Modified by Tomek at 3:36 PM 8/24/2005
08-24-2005, 01:06 PM
#59
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it still eps (i think) and i believe they lowered either the tie rod ends or the steering rods, i forget to make it steer nicer...i'll have to look at my notes from the meeting...
08-24-2005, 04:42 PM
#60
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Re: (phateless)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BarracksSi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The 02-05 Si doesn't suck; it just doesn't have the top-flight motor that it deserved.
FWIW, I'm still disappointed in Americans' taste for less-practical cars -- coupes, SUVs, etc. I just couldn't bring myself to owning anything with a trunk anymore.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree!!
The 02-05 Si doesn't suck; it just doesn't have the top-flight motor that it deserved.
FWIW, I'm still disappointed in Americans' taste for less-practical cars -- coupes, SUVs, etc. I just couldn't bring myself to owning anything with a trunk anymore.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree!!
08-24-2005, 04:46 PM
#61
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Re: Re: (Redline96LX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Redline96LX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wanna know why the 2000 Si was so hyped? look at it. Its gorgeous. I think its such a good looking car, id say it looks better than a Ferrari 355, the NSX, the Celica (any year) any dodge, the Lamborghini Gallardo, The Subaru STI, any corolla, or any Focus. The stock 2000 Civic Si in blue was such a good looking car, it really was, and the VTEC change was night and day, it sounded sporty, fun to drive, and just made you feel happy, because it was fun and felt faster than it was. It was just a great car, overall, it was fantastic.
P.S. whats the ****** point of sat. nav. on a Civic Si? Thats a street racer car, its a cruiser, and you go where the road takes you, cruise around, and show off. That makes sat. nav. kinda pointless, what kid is gonna use it? I wouldn't. I'd rip it out and put in a DVD player.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree about how silly the navi is. However, better than the 355, Gallardo or STI????? I have to disagree with those.
P.S. whats the ****** point of sat. nav. on a Civic Si? Thats a street racer car, its a cruiser, and you go where the road takes you, cruise around, and show off. That makes sat. nav. kinda pointless, what kid is gonna use it? I wouldn't. I'd rip it out and put in a DVD player.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree about how silly the navi is. However, better than the 355, Gallardo or STI????? I have to disagree with those.
08-24-2005, 05:26 PM
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Re: (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't know if you remember this far back, but the first British hatch for the USDM, model year 1992, also received a lot of criticism on introduction.
As we all know, of course, the '92-'95 Civic hatch turned into one of the most desirable Hondas to have, for any number of reasons, and they are still very popular.</TD></TR></TABLE>
exactly. That's what I thought about when people bashed it...I have to admit though, I at first hated the ep3... but that went away quickly when I went to honda and traded in my jrsc'd ej
As we all know, of course, the '92-'95 Civic hatch turned into one of the most desirable Hondas to have, for any number of reasons, and they are still very popular.</TD></TR></TABLE>
exactly. That's what I thought about when people bashed it...I have to admit though, I at first hated the ep3... but that went away quickly when I went to honda and traded in my jrsc'd ej
08-24-2005, 06:16 PM
#63
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Re: Re: (Tomek)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tomek »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I wish they kept the dash shifter....</TD></TR></TABLE>
Same here. I liked it enough on my EP3 that I put something similar in my track car.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wonder if the mac strut suspension has been revised at all from the ep3 or rsx. Or if its identical. i.e the length of the tie rod ends and such.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It has been changed to help alleviate the bump steer and uncertainty for which McPherson Honda suspensions were criticised, and to improve the car's performance on the track if that's where it ends up. I am not sure exactly how it was changed.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I prefer the hatch design, the interior, and the fact that it may gain more of a 'cult car' status. And its only a motorswap and an lsd trans away from remaining competitive with the 06.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, I guess that's true. What's a K20A2 cost? $4,000? And I know you can get a Quaife Torsen axle for as little as $825.
Something to think about, though, is that even if you only paid $16,000 for your EP3, you're already at $21,000 w/the improvements and you haven't begun to talk about upgrading the brakes and suspension.
I wish they kept the dash shifter....</TD></TR></TABLE>
Same here. I liked it enough on my EP3 that I put something similar in my track car.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wonder if the mac strut suspension has been revised at all from the ep3 or rsx. Or if its identical. i.e the length of the tie rod ends and such.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It has been changed to help alleviate the bump steer and uncertainty for which McPherson Honda suspensions were criticised, and to improve the car's performance on the track if that's where it ends up. I am not sure exactly how it was changed.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I prefer the hatch design, the interior, and the fact that it may gain more of a 'cult car' status. And its only a motorswap and an lsd trans away from remaining competitive with the 06.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, I guess that's true. What's a K20A2 cost? $4,000? And I know you can get a Quaife Torsen axle for as little as $825.
Something to think about, though, is that even if you only paid $16,000 for your EP3, you're already at $21,000 w/the improvements and you haven't begun to talk about upgrading the brakes and suspension.
08-24-2005, 06:59 PM
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Re: (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HKS-EP3 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that thing is clean. i think ill trade my EP3 for that </TD></TR></TABLE>
I TAKE IT BACK
I TAKE IT BACK
08-24-2005, 06:59 PM
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Re: (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HKS-EP3 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that thing is clean. i think ill trade my EP3 for that </TD></TR></TABLE>
I TAKE IT BACK
I TAKE IT BACK
08-24-2005, 07:18 PM
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Re: (HKS-EP3)
dammit Honda, put the double wishbone back ON! and to make it better, **** with the back, give us a double wishbone back there, hehe. oh, but with the same spindle as the trailing arm, so we can swap brakes and stuff, hehe.
08-25-2005, 10:39 PM
#69
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Re: (Redline96LX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Redline96LX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dammit Honda, put the double wishbone back ON! and to make it better, **** with the back, give us a double wishbone back there, hehe. oh, but with the same spindle as the trailing arm, so we can swap brakes and stuff, hehe. </TD></TR></TABLE>
seriously! what the flying ****?! low hoodlines? who the hell cares?! i want my 4 wheel double wishbone!
seriously! what the flying ****?! low hoodlines? who the hell cares?! i want my 4 wheel double wishbone!
08-25-2005, 11:26 PM
#70
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this is what i did on my way home from the ride and drive
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1348477&page=2
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1348477&page=2
08-26-2005, 08:37 AM
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Re: went to the 2006 civic ride and drive today, got to drive the 06 si (phateless)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phateless »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah. this thing is bad-***! 197 horse, k20 motor, limited slip stock, 6-speed manual....this car kicks ***! the rest of the civics are pretty tight too. and they're now available with navigation. oh and the si and hybrids should both go for around 21....they'll start coming in in december. but beware, most dealers will probably mark them up a few grand, so start saving up for those down payments now. oh by the way, on the way home around 12:30, i wrecked my gsr. so if anyone has an eg hatch shell they want to sell, let me know.
the rims on the new si look like the current accord 6-speed rims, and they're 17s. the spoiler isn't stock, and i don't think the brembo brakes are on there. but a 200-hp lsd equipped car for 21 grand is a screaming deal!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Quote, originally posted by Nishant »
well if you think about it, the current civic is at about 20k msrp. Given the changes, I expect the new one to cost no less than 22k msrp without goodies. Now tack on brembos, bigger wheels, and other options, I am sure you can hit upper 20's if not 30k when all said and done. That won't sell
Me back in june in the S2000 forum:
I'm willing to bet the new Civic Si does NOT have: 18" wheels, Brembo brakes, or a motor that would make it faster than an RSX Type S.
I'm also willing to bet it will cost $21,999 sticker price.
Any takers?
too bad nobody bet me!
the rims on the new si look like the current accord 6-speed rims, and they're 17s. the spoiler isn't stock, and i don't think the brembo brakes are on there. but a 200-hp lsd equipped car for 21 grand is a screaming deal!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Quote, originally posted by Nishant »
well if you think about it, the current civic is at about 20k msrp. Given the changes, I expect the new one to cost no less than 22k msrp without goodies. Now tack on brembos, bigger wheels, and other options, I am sure you can hit upper 20's if not 30k when all said and done. That won't sell
Me back in june in the S2000 forum:
I'm willing to bet the new Civic Si does NOT have: 18" wheels, Brembo brakes, or a motor that would make it faster than an RSX Type S.
I'm also willing to bet it will cost $21,999 sticker price.
Any takers?
too bad nobody bet me!
08-26-2005, 11:53 AM
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Re: went to the 2006 civic ride and drive today, got to drive the 06 si (itr341)
There was a Civic in a Honda dealer. Had just about every single extra you could get for it. It was a nice coupe, but it was also 26 grand, marked down to 22 grand. It was in the showroom, is it any wonder. A car you can get for 16 grand, and put 10 grand of your OWN accessories. No one is gonna pay for a $26k civic, well maybe me, but I'm not a potential buyer, so I guess I wouldnt.
08-26-2005, 12:19 PM
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So the Civic's going even further upmarket -- is that any surprise? Over the last couple generations, it's been at the point where people often wouldn't be able to afford it for a new car. Its target audience (by reputation, anyway) has only been able to afford used Civics.
Can't wait to see what the public's reaction to the Fit will be.
Can't wait to see what the public's reaction to the Fit will be.
08-27-2005, 07:58 AM
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Re: went to the 2006 civic ride and drive today, got to drive the 06 si (Redline96LX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr341 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Quote, originally posted by Nishant »
well if you think about it, the current civic is at about 20k msrp. Given the changes, I expect the new one to cost no less than 22k msrp without goodies. Now tack on brembos, bigger wheels, and other options, I am sure you can hit upper 20's if not 30k when all said and done. That won't sell
Me back in june in the S2000 forum:
I'm willing to bet the new Civic Si does NOT have: 18" wheels, Brembo brakes, or a motor that would make it faster than an RSX Type S.
I'm also willing to bet it will cost $21,999 sticker price.
Any takers?
too bad nobody bet me!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
the new 230hp 2.5 liter wrx is only $25k. honda better keep it around $20k if they want to sell any of them...
Quote, originally posted by Nishant »
well if you think about it, the current civic is at about 20k msrp. Given the changes, I expect the new one to cost no less than 22k msrp without goodies. Now tack on brembos, bigger wheels, and other options, I am sure you can hit upper 20's if not 30k when all said and done. That won't sell
Me back in june in the S2000 forum:
I'm willing to bet the new Civic Si does NOT have: 18" wheels, Brembo brakes, or a motor that would make it faster than an RSX Type S.
I'm also willing to bet it will cost $21,999 sticker price.
Any takers?
too bad nobody bet me!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
the new 230hp 2.5 liter wrx is only $25k. honda better keep it around $20k if they want to sell any of them...
08-27-2005, 08:01 AM
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Re: Re: (giff74)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by giff74 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I agree about how silly the navi is. However, better than the 355, Gallardo or STI????? I have to disagree with those.</TD></TR></TABLE>
the nav option wouldn't be so silly if it used live traffic information...
its already in the acura rl... http://www.acura.com/models/mo...le=rl
Modified by glw at 11:14 PM 8/28/2005
I agree about how silly the navi is. However, better than the 355, Gallardo or STI????? I have to disagree with those.</TD></TR></TABLE>
the nav option wouldn't be so silly if it used live traffic information...
its already in the acura rl... http://www.acura.com/models/mo...le=rl
Modified by glw at 11:14 PM 8/28/2005