Pauls EP3

What lowering springs would you recommend for a mild drop? Maybe eibachs or h-techs?

Todd00

Stock class autox is dictated by how much tire you can fit on the OEM wheel and how much camber you can legally get in the front. If the Type R had come with a 15x7" wheel, that car would be absolutely untouchable in D-stock by anything (even moreso than it has been during its ~10-year winning streak).

A macstrut front wheel drive chassis will never be as good as a double-wishbone. It's just physics and what happens to the suspension and the rest of the related components when the suspension moves. You can make it work, but it'll never quite be as good.

But, there are other tweaks you can make in a stock class that'll swing the balance one way or another (legal camber bolts, sweet-spot in rim/tire size, light weight, etc). Or, a good chassis might be saddled with a crappy gearbox ratio or something.

The only chance a RSX-S has in G-Stock is if you can somehow prove that a few A-Spec cars were actually assembled on the production line in Japan (which is the rumor, but I have yet to see documentation). Then you can use the full A-Spec parts on a Type-S and get the upgraded springrates, wheel size and stance.

Otherwise I believe the regular RSX is in H-Stock now, and I'd rather go that route.

mustclime

I do not recomend any lowering springs for the dc5/ep3 for the following reasons.
1) lca angles are very important with its suspuspension design.
2) there is baerly 5 inchs of upward suspension travel(if you have no bumpstops), unless you live on a pooltable, you need it all.
3) all lowering springs out there that are made in the stock style for our cars are to low a rate....think about it....with a one inch bumpstop, you have 4 inchs of upward suspension travel. Now you put on some 1.5 inch drop springs. For these spring to keep the car off its bumpstops, you would need to increase their rate by 100%. The problem with this is if spring makers sold stock style springs that were 100% stiffer than stock, kids would hang them on their cars with the stock dampers and those dampers would blow in record time....see the problem? So spring makers make lowering springs that are 20-30% stiffer than stock to keep the dampers from blowing and the car rides its bumpstops in every turn.

sooo.....lowering springs = fail imo for our cars.

Pauls EP3

Hmmm, understood. Thanks.

mustclime

I have been thinking about this post for a while....Have you looked at the times in this years tirerack nat race?

the d-stock times were....
121.019.......type-r
121.480.......type-r
123.156.......cobalt ss
123.487........type-r
124.649........type-r

the g stock times were.....
122.661........cooper-s
122.756........cooper-s
123.163........cooper-s
123.397........cooper-s
123.425........cooper-s
123.593........cooper-s

Seems the mini's are doiing ok with just one controle arm per side up front.

josh's ep3

What makes the Cobalt so good? The stock turbo/sc??

mustclime

The 08 and 09 cobalt ss turbo is about as close as you can get in the US for a new "type-r". Chevy spent some real time at the nerberring race course tuning the suspension, motor and brakes. Both c&d and r&t have called it the best handling fwd car sold at this time....I know there are some real chevy haters on a honda forum but as someone that has driven one and talked a friend into buying one. I can tell you they are just plain great cars imo. The basics....
*2950lbs
*260 crank hp....A lot of people that have dropped a broken in stock one on a dyno have seen over that at the wheels
*260 fptq....see above
*brembo 4 pots up front
*quafe as a option
*pretty dam grippy seats up front....this is important with the grip on this thing.
* the suspension is struts up front and a twist beam in the rear
* comes stock with 8 inch wide wheels and 225 tires stock....255's fit just fine for autoX...I have seen 275's on them.
* the turbo Ecotec motor is a great mill. All al,it does not have head studs. It hads bolts that go into the crank gertal, all the way though the block and nuts are used to hold on the head...this means when you tq on the head, you are also tq'ing on the crank....this is very cool with a boost motor as high boost has been know ripout head studs and blow out head gaskets on motors with al blocks. Another really cool thing about the motor is the direct injection. Direct injection injects the gas directly into the combustion chamber at 1500 psi....no more carbon biuld up on the back of the the valves! The high psi also cools the boost so chevy can run more psi with out knock...this tec has been used in desiels for years, mini coopers have it, evo X's have it....one day honda will have it...

the 2 down sides.......looks....it looks like a rental car with wheels....this is what I call a sleeper but the crew that likes lots of bling do not care for it......and the interior is very plastic-ie....Kinda like a 90's honda. Truth be told, GM is about 10-15 years behind honda on the moldings inside the car. This is what everyone bitches about. My buddy that bought one said this was the one reason he almost did not buy one....I had to remind him that he had been driving a gutted teg for 3 years....lol...check out the comparo at R&T some time.

josh's ep3

Wow, did not know that. I definitely am not one of those people that hates on other brands just because of looks etc. I know a few people that have them, one guy even has a 4 door, and they swear by them lol. The 4 door dude has an upgraded turbo (and supporting mods) and that thing flys! Sounds pretty sweet.

josh's ep3

Damn, if only they got to test it with the LSD haha.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...ime_for_turbos

JW racing

Has anyone measured toe changes of the RSX/EP3.

We all know the EG/DC has crummy rear toe changes as well,though in opposite directions of a RSX...I'm just curious on the amount of change.Are we talking like .25" of toe change in the range of motion or?

MadLorGLK

MY SETUP

04 EP3

Progress Coilovers Series I (ep3 speicific)
0857 steering bracket
hotchkis camber plates
front and rear sway bars (progress)
Rear strut bar (no name brand)
SPC rear camber kit
SPC front crash bolts (a pair on each side)
Wheels 18x9 +25, 18x9.5 +19
Dunlop Direzza 215/40/18


WHAT I NEED TO ACHIEVE


Not my daily driver, Not for track, auto-x, drag etc BUT for show, meets,
I already know how detrimental slamming the ep3 is but I would still love to attain any sort of performance or handling possible with my setup.

I NEED about -2.75 to -3 deg of camber in the front
NEED about 2.5 to 3" drop
in order to be hellaflushed approved (LOL)


QUESTIONS

1) I have read that too much negative camber causes the tie rods to be too long preventing proper toe adjustment. If this is true then who makes a shorter durable tie rod for the ep3??? I know that Todd modifies the oem tie rod making them adjustable for $255, are there other brands out there?

2) For my situation is it worth getting RCA's???

3) What about inverted tie rod ends, from my readings, it seems that I should definitely stay away from any inverted tie rod ends, can anyone confirm this???

4) I read the following from ephatch:
"Correcting the roll center with RCA's and correcting the tierod angle with the extended steering rack arm will allow for a much lower ride that still handles fairly well. But this will also greatly reduce the negative camber, so an extended LCA will help there. SO add a set of RCA's(extended lower ball joints), extended steering rack arm and a set of ITR LCA's along with a strut/damper that still allows for a decent travel."

So if Im reading the above correctly does that mean that if I get the RCA and the steering bracket by 0857 then will I be risking loosing negative camber???
Is the ITR LCA necessary for my setup???

5) Bottom line: for my setup, aesthetics trumps performance so what suspension modification must I forgo in order to achieve the hellaflush look and which are crucial in order to alleviate the bad suspension geometry that my ep is in??????????

thanks in advance :thumbsup:

cloumep3

So from what I read here, for ep3, lowering is not recommended for DD? I was looking to purchase GC(street rate)/Koni yellows and drop it about an inch w/ set of 17x7 wheels & tires at 215/45/17. I def. am not planning on slamming it nor going all out races, but would appreciate improved handling when enjoying spirited driving on the road. Your input would be greatly appreciated.

josh's ep3

Go with 225's and you're good

josh's ep3

MadLorGLK: It seems as if you are trying to find a middle ground between EP3 suspension geometry and looks. The bottom line is... pick one, or the other lol. To be honest, if you are planning on running a lot of negative camber and a pretty low stance... I wouldn't even worry about getting RCA's or the DC5 ITR LCA's. I'm sure you've heard of IceCreamSandwich aka Nyquil from EPhatch, back when I was planning on going this route I talked to him a lot about what his set up was and how he got such an aggressive stance. Basically, you need adjustable coilovers, camber kits (F/R), and more than likely stretched tires and rolled/pulled fenders. The only out of the parts you mentioned that I would recommend would be inverted tie rod ends. Basically, with what you want to do there isn't a point to get all the extra stuff to try and help the geometry out because it won't make any difference.

PM IceCreamSandwich and talk to him about what he has going on. I do know that he was running about 6 degrees of negative when he was rocking the 17x9 (9.5?) +14 SSR's in the rear. I believe he was running about 3.5 degrees negative in the front with 17x8 +14's.

cloumep3

well, besides the tire size, from what mustclime said on previous posts, lowering DD's isn't ideal? Like I said, I won't be going rice and do 3" drop, but rather drop an 1" or so... other than doing an alignment(zero in the toes), I'm not planning to do any huge strutbars or camber kits and such. I also don't really see the need for LCA's either since the drop would be bare minimum.

So that being said, experts, would GC/Koni's(street spring rate) combo provide the ride quality equal/better than that of stock suspension with 1"ish drop?

josh's ep3

Lowering more than an inch will result in the car's suspension geometry not being ideal. Usually you can get away with .75" - 1.5" drop and you will not be greatly affected. My car is dropped about 1.25" and it handles outstanding with my 225 XS's. The Koni/GC's will be a big upgrade over stock. Ride quality will still be good with the OTS spring rates but it will be noticeably stiffer than stock.

mustclime

1) as you lower the ep3, you need longer tie rods, as you increase negative camber you need shorter tierods...if you are crafty, you might be able to equal it out. I will tell you that at stock ride hight and -3 degrees camber I ran out of threads on the tierods(to long)...you can get around theu with the dc5-r lca
2)not really, you are toast with that much of a drop. Your ep will handle like a pig on greased glass with that much drop.
3) never been a fan of those.
4)Sadly, you want a ep3 to handle well, you have to keep the lca with a slight downward angle from the center of the car...the only way to get that with a 3 inch drop is to redesign the subframe that the lca mounts on.
5)Soooo you want to look like a race car without spending race car money but getting race car handling....good luck with that.....you want to handle and have no fender gap? Fender flares....couple grand and you are done. That or pay someone 20 grand to redesign your suspension.



I do not recomend the street kit from GC in it stock form...stock it comes with 375lb front and 440lb rear....both of them are 6 inch long. the problem is the 6 inch front 375lb springs are not long enough. With the sping purch at the top of the threads of the sleeve that slides over the strut, with the sag of the spring, you will be about 1.5 inches lower than stock....with any spring rate lower than 500lbs, you really need a 8 inch long spring to run close to stock ride hight....I was very happy with a 400lb x 8 inch springs in the front with the stock sway.

ryanjvoss

I have a set of skunk 2 coilover sleeves. After they were installed the car wouldnt sit lower than it did with just the old skunk 2inch lowering springs. Now the car has a huge gap in the front and a 2 finger gap in the back and the sleeves are set all the way down. The sleeves came from clubrsx.com and im wondering if they're the wrong ones because I've had problems with this company before sending wrong parts.

josh's ep3

That's right, I forgot about the spring being shorter. I ended up going for 8" springs as well for my 450lb fronts and 1000lb rears. Can't wait to get them on.

mustclime

thinking you have a install issue....If my memery serves me right, the junk2 sleeve kit are 6 inch long springs in the front and and 5 inch long spring in the rear for the ep3.....now the spring rates are backward cuz those boys are clueless about our suspension. If you have those front springs all the way down to the bottom of the threads, you should have no fender gap to speak of........If you think you have the wrong kit, go to the junk2 web site and check the pt# with what you received.

ep3.....

http://www.skunk2.com/mm5/merchant.m...de=517-05-2470

dc5...

http://www.skunk2.com/mm5/merchant.m...de=517-05-1690

MadLorGLK

THANKS AGAIN FOR THE GREAT INFO...

So I guess I wont be getting the RCA's...

I can either get the DC5-R LCA ($200-$400) or Todds modified tierod ($255) that can be adjusted to the desired length needed.
I know that if I get this LCA I will also need an adaptor from king.

Which of the two above would be a better investment/solution for my situation?

MadLorGLK

Thanks Josh

I actually have been in contact with Nyquil as well
his set up 17x9R +14 17x8F +14
-2.75 camber F
-5.6-7 camber R
rolling on ksport with camber plates
I know that he is set on the maximum drop on his coilvers

By the way, so what happened?
Y didnt you end up going flush?
Just Couldnt give up handling and performance for aesthetics (to some) huh
lol I dont blame you though

Maybe when I get tired of this look on my ep (which i know I will) I will concentrate on better handling and raise the car a bit

josh's ep3

Yep, exactly why I changed my mind. Plus my buddy and I always have a side project so whenever I want to roll something that I can spank people with or hardpark somewhere I will just drive one of our projects hahaha!

oregon_love_Ep3

Just bought a rear skunk2 camber kit for my ep3 does skunk2 not make a front camber kit? Im a noob be easy on me haha

cloumep3

Based on what you explained and what Josh said about his GC/Koni combo, I'm assuming I could request for 8" springs with street spring rate? Basically, I just don't want to have too much of a bouncy ride and from one of the vendors on HT recommended that street spring rate would do the trick. But all this was before I began reading this thread..., hence a lil' confused. BTW, I greatly appreciate your expert input.