mustclime

the valve cover gasket needs a dab at each conner....if that thing has not been opened before, you will see some there from the factory.....

yes, lash is checked with a feeler gauge....kinda suprized you have not checked this yet.

tamadrummer1120

are you reffering to why I have not checked the valve lash?

no to be a smarta** or anything like that, but why would i need to for this problem? I could see if it was tapping or anything like that, but it doesn't seem neccesary when you think of the problems that are occuring.

thanks again dude.

turboteg2nv

^^ I'm on OP's side, doesn't really make sense to check valve lash based on his problems/diagnosis.

If you're looking for replacement cams for cheap, search the classifieds on K20a.org. People part out stock motors/parts all the time.

tamadrummer1120

well, if we are going to put new cams in, we are just going to get new ones, but I was wondering as to the best option, if cams are even the problem.


........i ought to tell my brother the only way to fix it is stage 3 cams.......and a fully built K. bwahahaha.

tamadrummer1120

also can anyone else verify this 2002-2003 bad cam casting thing? I mean I read something about the new Si's, but not the EP3. And I think my brothers car has about 100k on it. Bought it only about half a year ago. And how evident should this galling and stuff be, should it be pretty easy to see with the VC off, I am not looking to take rocker assembly off.

josh's ep3

I think musty is referring more to the whole under valve cover check. Also, valve lash is recommended to be set around every 30k miles or so if I'm not mistaken.

dx_rex

ha.. i wasnt the OP.. i was just butting in cause im pulling the valve cover off come spring and i will be checking the the lash. sorry for the tread jack and confusion.. i was more curious about the hondabond cause i didnt plan on doing that but it did cross my mind. agin sry for the thread jack but thanks for the info.

tamadrummer1120

sounds about right. i heard that you need to adjust the valves on a vtec engine every 75,000. now checking it and all, i am not sure, but 30,000 sounds about right.

turboteg2nv

Here is a link for K20a3 cams for $80

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=72190

Hop on ephatch.com and search for "cam galling". You'll see pics to know what to look for. The galling is enough that you can easily feel it with your fingernail.

mustclime

If you have a valve or valves that have to much of a gap or lash, you are not opening the valve as much as you should. No open, no power.

and yes, you are supose to check it every 30k.

tamadrummer1120

ok, i see where you are coming from there, but I would think you would hear the valves tapping. and i checked the galling the on the ephatch website. cant look at his car until saturday now, but I will take some pics and show you all what I find.

tamadrummer1120

quick question, will the type s cams work, from the rsx?

like these....

http://www.crower.com/cgi-bin/detail...rod_id=63451-2

murderedrsx

No one has suggested the possibility of a vacuum leak: specifically a leak at the intake gasket for #2. Hit it with WD40 and make sure it doesnt rev up. Could also light a cigar, while engine is off, and puff a huge puff into a vacuum line and see where it smokes. First method is best for intake gasket though. (Could still be a head gasket gone at #2, just isnt passing water to oil. Is it burning through oil or water excessively?)

tamadrummer1120

well, the oil and water level is perfect and has been. has no symptoms which would lead to a headgasket problem. in addition i hear nothing that would sound like a vacuum leak, but I will be sure to hit with WD-40 just to be sure. Good idea!

murderedrsx

Oh one more thing now that I think of it, have you checked to make sure the injector is pulsing correctly? Not clogged? Take it out and check to make sure its firing proper mist. If you have an oscilliscope at work you can check the pulse (although I am pretty sure most scan tools will do this now, but I havent done one in years).

tamadrummer1120

well all the stuff we have done is at my uncles garage at his house. he does not have an o scope on his scan tool (one of the lower snap on scanners), but we did test the injectors, swap them, replace o rings, and listen to all of them and they all sounded like they were firing properly. I also had thought the same thing the one day we were working on it.

murderedrsx

Yeah usually if one injector is clogged the other will be too, and the chances of it just being bad injector are really low. Plus the O2 sensor issue is still strange. Do those O2 sensors have Preheater circuits? Does it run better when its hot vs cold? I am still going with vacuum leak. To me it is about 1000x more likely than cam lobe issue. Could be a collapsed cam follower (although I dont even know what the followers are like in this head. My ignorance on this motor is high). Burned valve. Maybe, but still unlikely unless you already had a gasket issue.

I was just looking at pics on internet. I know, a weak diagnostic tool, but I did notice something else. What is the bung between the two runners on the right as your looking at the intake? Is that #2 cylinder it goes into (My ignorance). Looks like possible EGR tube. Could be clogged or sucking up oil from somewhere. Just thoughts. Good luck.

tamadrummer1120

well, I was thinking that if something on cylinder two was causing a lack of air into the cylinder, but the same amount of fuel is still going in, then maybe that would cause the rich issue, thus the secondary 02 sensor. So I thought of the cam follower and the camshaft itself. And that sparked this whole issue with the bad cams. So I will check for a leak and the vacuum hoses and all.

turboteg2nv

Trouble shooting is fun

mustclime

anything can be made to work.....give me 20 grand and it will make nsx cams "work" in your head.......so yes, if you butcher your rocker assy, you can get the real vtac cams to work in the a3 head.

turboteg2nv

^^ I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

You can modify the pin assembly on the a2 cams to work on the a3 head, but this will only give you one cam lobe option - the vtec cam.

Bottom end performance suffers, but the top end will open up. Although the A3 head still doesn't flow as much air as well as the A2 head.

scmil95eg

Or, if there is no lash (or gap), when the valve warms up and expands - it might not seal 100%.

tamadrummer1120

well i was not trying to do anything like that. just a stock replacement. like you all said the crv cams maybe.

mustclime

It was a mod that was done before there were any cams for the a3 motor. Now that both BC and Junk2 make cams for the a3, its just not that smart a mob imo....as a whole, I am not a fan of doing to much to the k20a3 but putting an a2 cam (the high lobe of a a2) that is really designed to max out higher than you should rev the bottom end of the a3 is just dumb. An non counter ballance crank, weak rods and poor oiling to the back of the head is just honda's way of telling you to not bother with the k20a3.

turboteg2nv

agreed

stupid A3 motor