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RPF1's are often not big brake friendly. Just a heads up. The spoke design on a lot of RPF1'S don't work with big brakes...or even Spoon calipers, which use stock sized rotors. Although....IIRC, 17X8 +45 is one of the BBK friendly RPF1 sizes.
I'd look into a OEM BBK. You can use RL 4 piston calipers on a lot of Hondas. I use them on my TSX with almost 13" (12.7")rotors with powerstop carbon ceramic pads. Everything, including brackets was $425.
Try looking on Fastbrakes' website for EP3 options.
Nice thing about OEM brake kits is that you can buy replacement pads/rotors almost anywhere, plus...OEM quality and simplicity.
DC5-R brembos and the whole 5 lug conversion is cheap too. I think people figured out which pads fit them. If you're buying wheels anyway....may as well make them 5 lug.
Jdmenginescorp.com usually has DC5 Brembos and the whole front/rear 5 lug setup for about $700 shipped with the aluminum LCAs.
http://www.jdmenginescorp.com/accessories_details/wheels_acura-rsx-type-r-k20a-brembo-5-lug-disc-brake-caliper-rotor
DC2 ITR calipers or Legend calipers with Mini cooper rotors or something?
EP3 stock brakes aren't bad. But would look pretty small under a 17" wheel.
I have custom Wilwoods that are smaller (less rotational mass) and save 15 lbs. over stock. $800 and zero problems. I bought them for weight, not braking. Even stock EP brakes can be made to brake well with good pads, solid lines, and cooling ducting (only needed for full on track racing) as GrassRootsMotorsports has shown.
While I'm here; Per Schroeder of GrassRoots built an EP3 about 12 years ago and hated the suspension. A bit of a blanket statement and not all encompassing but the problem with the EP3s/DC5s is that it takes a lot of mods to get them handling really well but the mods take them out of competitive classes in sanctioned racing. If you don't care - I certainly don't - and just want to build a really fun car for street/track days etc. they have surprisingly good potential.
And just when i thought I had it sort of figured out... Thanks B Serious I have been looking for the LCAs... To be honest function is more than form for me. That compete swap + Brembos sound great. I believe from my research the DC5 ones are direct bolt on to the EP3, if memory serves me well...
Edit 1 :
Axles will need to be replaced still researching, 99.9% positive.
Last edited by valter; 11-20-2014 at 03:56 PM.
Reason: adding info for BBK DC5R swap
But its not the only way to go. Most seperate sport or race shocks on a EP3 mean putting on inserts. ******* inserts :/. "Inserts" appear as the definition of "Boner killer" in the dictionary.
Anyway...custom setups that are succesful usually take a LOT of experience and trial and error. OP isn't building a track car where all the clunking and creaking of inserts can be ignored. I wouldn't be able to ignore it even on the track.
If I were to put together a street/track EP3:
I would still have done Bilstein PSS9's if this was going to be predominantly a street car. They ride like effing silk. I'm sure you can add spring rate to them if you wanted to later on. But they're so mild that I'd be more swayed to just leaving the stock bilstein springs on there.
I would consider possibly Buddy Club RSD if I was looking for something good...but aggressive and inexpensive. You can build off either one of those...but I think the RSD would be a better platform to start with if you were actually going to track it. They're street friendly also. You'd most likely just want to up the rear rates for the track once you tried everything out.
If I was looking to go REALLY budget, but still maintain quality, I'd do Buddy Club N+...again for the reason that you can build off of them later. The N+ is probably the only full body coil that I would recommend for around $1k. For some reason...they don't suck even though they're so cheap.
Front camber plates. Set from stun to kill.
Brake pads. Staggered rim/tire setup.
LSD.
After driving it stock, of course.
IDK...I agree that the EP3 has quite a few draw backs in terms of the suspension and chassis. But it is a lot of fun to drive...and you can pretty much make anything move around a track if you know what you're doing. I've seen a fast early 90's Nissan Maxima, of all things.
Honda really improved the chassis for the 06-11 Si. A stock one with brake pads and tires would DEFINITELY dust off a moderately prepped/modded EP3.
Seems you didn't read the thread... if you have forgive me, but I am fixing the car and trying to make it better... I am just getting in the track days and I am not building a track car... I can get custom build... but do I want to at this point ...? Hell no I have no idea what I am doing !( the more I read the more I realize this... It feels like the days I started working in IT...)
So if you have any information that is relevant, please do so!
Tokico/KYB shocks - been through both of these.... custom build with off the shelf shocks? Please do shed some light on this monster....
Honda really improved the chassis for the 06-11 Si. A stock one with brake pads and tires would DEFINITELY dust off a moderately prepped/modded EP3.[/QUOTE]
I don't know man.. I test drove 4-5 didn't see that effect....
Thank you for taking your wheels off to show the brakes... this is sweet and no one can beat OEM ... !
Thanks Man!
Check this out... as far as the suspension flaws go on the EP3... it almost got a AWD car with 50 horses more... I wish the video quality was better...
The 06-11 Si is definitely quick around a track. I owned one for a while. It was my GF's DD. So...it was left stock. But my friend owned it before we did...and he tracked it. It was genuinely good. 200hp, LSD, short gearing, better chassis, bigger brakes, etc. You'd have to significantly mod a USDM EP3 to catch a stock 06-11 on a track.
The hottest setup for an EP3 is probably to trade up for a 06-11 Si or TSX
Edit: gonna be putting Tein coilovers on my friend's EP3 on Saturday.
The 06-11 Si is definitely quick around a track. I owned one for a while. It was my GF's DD. So...it was left stock. But my friend owned it before we did...and he tracked it. It was genuinely good. 200hp, LSD, short gearing, better chassis, bigger brakes, etc. You'd have to significantly mod a USDM EP3 to catch a stock 06-11 on a track.
The hottest setup for an EP3 is probably to trade up for a 06-11 Si or TSX
Edit: gonna be putting Tein coilovers on my friend's EP3 on Saturday.
Please do let me know how the Tein's go... also which Tein's exactly?
Man that EP3 is staying with me forever... BTW no such thing as a USDM EP3 ... they were all put together in the UK... Honda just decided to cut the ***** off of the one for the US market as usual....
Please do let me know how the Tein's go... also which Tein's exactly?
Man that EP3 is staying with me forever... BTW no such thing as a USDM EP3 ... they were all put together in the UK... Honda just decided to cut the ***** off of the one for the US market as usual....
USDM = US Domestic market.
Doesn't have to be made in the US. My USDM S2000, TSX, and ITR were all made in Japan. Hell...a lot of domestic brands aren't even made in the US.
The CTR was the only EP3 that wasn't neutered. They neutered every Si on purpose. An Si is supposed to be toned down but sporty. It's not a Type R. And even if it was...the Civic type R was always toned down so it couldn't compete with the Integra. Same case for the Si models. They have to be slower than the Integra/RSX models. Marketing
Notice that the 8th and 9th gen were the first Si models with any sort of actual performance direction/equipment from the factory. There wasn't any Integra to compete with. Same reason that the FD2 CTR is so fast. No more integra....no reason to hold back on the civic. The first "quick" Si came out in 06. Before then...the only car slower than an Si was another Si....or...maybe a GTi.
As for the Teins on my friend's car.... he did the street basis. He just needs something good to replace his busted stock shocks. The SB and the SA are very very soft, street oriented coils. The SA's have damping adjustment and height adjustment. SB's just have height adjustment. I got SA's for my TSX because they don't make Bilstein PSS9's for it :'(. I love them. But in hind sight, I may have been happier with H&R street performance coils. I like that over damped german feel.
So if you have any have any information that is relevant, please do so!
Tokico/KYB shocks - been through both of these.... custom build with off the shelf shocks? Please do shed some light on this monster....
Well with certain companies you can call in a custom shock order. I know Bilstein does custom orders, as far as other places I have always just done research and come up with the appropriate shock to order from the US or Japan. Then my actual casings I machine myself. Totally worth it.
BUT my setup may not work for you. Different chassis modifications (also caged or not), power outputs, brake setup, tires and wheels, even aero factors in.
Well with certain companies you can call in a custom shock order. I know Bilstein does custom orders, as far as other places I have always just done research and come up with the appropriate shock to order from the US or Japan. Then my actual casings I machine myself. Totally worth it.
BUT my setup may not work for you. Different chassis modifications (also caged or not), power outputs, brake setup, tires and wheels, even aero factors in.
...
I see you may have read the thread somewhat... alright man... I have my mind set already, will post once I have the parts... until then... jumping from Tokico/KYB off the shelf to Bilsteins is quite the feed by the way... also "caged or not), power outputs, brake setup, even aero factors" have little to do with the subject at hand... keep reading... after 60-80 hours of you reading... we can talk again...[/QUOTE]
Cheerio!
I have a nice jack, stands, impact, floor mounted hydraulic spring compressor, etc. I think I could do this whole thing in 1hr or so if I weren't also helping my friend replace his thermostat at the same time lol. Just be careful that the spindles don't drop and pull the axles out of the inner joint. Had to take apart an axle and re-assemble it.
I loosened and re-clocked all applicable bushings and torqued everything to spec.
They rode very very well. No noises. The kit was very complete and very nice. Had machined aluminum cups to sit around the factory top hat bearing. So no clunking or other bullshit noises. I used honda shin-ehtsu grease on all rubber parts. Anti siezed all the collars (salt used on the roads here).
When you hear people say that their EP3 makes noise from the suspension install and that it's "normal"....they're wrong. The right parts and the right installation make a big difference.
I have a nice jack, stands, impact, floor mounted hydraulic spring compressor, etc. I think I could do this whole thing in 1hr or so if I weren't also helping my friend replace his thermostat at the same time lol. Just be careful that the spindles don't drop and pull the axles out of the inner joint. Had to take apart an axle and re-assemble it.
I loosened and re-clocked all applicable bushings and torqued everything to spec.
They rode very very well. No noises. The kit was very complete and very nice. Had machined aluminum cups to sit around the factory top hat bearing. So no clunking or other bullshit noises. I used honda shin-ehtsu grease on all rubber parts. Anti siezed all the collars (salt used on the roads here).
When you hear people say that their EP3 makes noise from the suspension install and that it's "normal"....they're wrong. The right parts and the right installation make a big difference.
Jeez, one hour. I take that long on one corner with hand tools. What do you mean by re-clocking?
Jeez, one hour. I take that long on one corner with hand tools. What do you mean by re-clocking?
Lol....I actually didn't get a chance to use my cordless impact much on the rear suspension. I was too lazy to fire up the compressor...so I didn't use an air ratchet either. A lot of the bolts are in a place where you can't use an impact gun. I guess I just work fast. This was my first coilover install on an EP3. So I kept having to read the instructions. And I have ADD. And I was recreationally using glaucoma medication And we did this at like 2AM after getting back from a friend's party. And we may have been drinking prior. We were definitely drinking prior. And I forgot my S2000 keys at home so we had to work around that car and it took up premium garage stall-space lol. Dammit.
Doesn't matter.
Re-clocking meaning...all the bushings are tightened down at ride height at the factory. When the height changes, you should loosen them and re - tighten them at the new ride height. You jack up the suspension till it reaches the new height....then tighten all the bushings you need to clock.
Considering I was pretty well lifted. It was 2AM when we got to the garage. Doing a thermostat on an EP3 at the same time with a dude that is smart...but doesn't work on cars. Had to rearrange things to work around my S2000 without bumping into it. I think it took 3-4hrs total, including tool cleanup and washing the floor. The thermostat being the majority of that time. Not bad, I'd say.
If you would have said you have never worked on an EP3 suspension.I would have warned you about the axles.I use zip ties to keep them in place ( woks 70% of the time). I had them slip out on me a few times ( have done shocks 5 times now ), but never had to take the axle apart to get it back in. A bit of brute force works... just remember when you get too brute.Step a way for a few or it may end up in a costly repair.
P.S.
LOL...last time when I put the KYBs on there. I forgot that you have to angle the knuckle down and than insert to bottom bolt in the shock/knuckle( that's usually when the axles pop out). I spend a few hours messing with it until I looked at the manual. And realized (many expletives...)
I had worked on an EP3 suspension plenty of times. We put a motor in that same EP3 last year. I know about the axles. I usually can just pop them back in super easy. Unfortunately, this time...a spindle bolt on one of the sides was rusted and ended up spinning the spindle down. Then it leaned over in a way that twisted the axle. So I tried for a while to do it without taking it apart, but it was impossible. So...lots of swear words were used. Took me 5 mins to pop it out, snap the band, and re-align it. No biggie. But WHY?!?!?!
Jumping from Tokico/KYB off the shelf to Bilsteins is quite the feed by the way... also "caged or not, power outputs, brake setup, even aero" have little to do with the subject at hand... keep reading... after 60-80 hours of you reading... we can talk again...
Cheerio!
I have read the entire thread and it is pretty relevant to the subject at hand.
Aero with more downforce will push down on the car and change how it handles which you can cope with by changing sus. setup. Also a cage will change chassis stiffness so, you can run higher rate springs (if you run high rate without the right chassis stiffness, the chassis will flex instead of the springs).
I say these things because although you are using your car for street driving with occasional track use, it seems pretty performance oriented.
I have read the entire thread and it is pretty relevant to the subject at hand.
Aero with more downforce will push down on the car and change how it handles which you can cope with by changing sus. setup. Also a cage will change chassis stiffness so, you can run higher rate springs (if you run high rate without the right chassis stiffness, the chassis will flex instead of the springs).
I say these things because although you are using your car for street driving with occasional track use, it seems pretty performance oriented.
Hi sansvtec,
Definitely performance oriented, but not to the point of aero or cages at this point... hopefully one day..
I had worked on an EP3 suspension plenty of times. We put a motor in that same EP3 last year. I know about the axles. I usually can just pop them back in super easy. Unfortunately, this time...a spindle bolt on one of the sides was rusted and ended up spinning the spindle down. Then it leaned over in a way that twisted the axle. So I tried for a while to do it without taking it apart, but it was impossible. So...lots of swear words were used. Took me 5 mins to pop it out, snap the band, and re-align it. No biggie. But WHY?!?!?!
350/630 re-valved for 1000 with Todd's camber plates V1 and a bunch of other goodies... B Serious... I know it was a steal!
Next...
RSX tie rod ends
Caliper rebuild kit from Honda -maybe
Still looking for ITR/CTR LCAs and bar.
Brake/Clutch line upgrade.
A/C delete - haven't had A/C for 3 years ( compressor starting to make weird noises, dont wanna snap the belt)
Stage 1 Exedy -debating ( now or after I fry the current one in march)
Roll center adjusters - trying to figure out, if the J's RSX ones fit the EP3
Enkei - so far - 17x7 - PF01 38mm or RPF1 43mm
Tires - some sticky stuff - 215 -245
11-19-2014, 07:39 PM
Re: 2002 EP3 Suspension Build
