Zahntech

that's my whole point about getting the power out of a K24 for reasonable money...the motor is not designed for mega TQ and thats what gets your wheels turning...you would have to spend serious money to get the kind of numbers you would want from it and then how long would the motor last?

Most NSX owners are the "Set it and forget it type" they don't want to be building a new motor every year...they want to get some more HP and drive the car.

There are exceptions for sure, some people love tearing their car apart over and over...If that's your deal then go for it

"BTW, with the same geometry as a stock motor, a K20 motor at 486 hp could be expected to make 320-330 ft-lbs of tq. The dyno chart seems to be right in that range. "

Check out that other 600Hp car it has 522ftlbs of TQ That is more like it...however we can't see the Dyno graph so we have no idea how it came into play..and most Importantly HOW LONG WILL THE MOTOR LAST?

The original question for this thread was can you make cheeper lighter power in an NSX with a K motor.

The answer is still cost less NO lighter Yes

Building and installing a K24 with say 500hp and a nice TQ band is going to cost you at least 20-25k including all the custom fab and misc stuff nobody has even thought of yet.

I can build a 500hp C32 for 15k and it will be more reliable.

so sure replacing your k24 will be cheeper than replacing a C32 but then agian you would be less likely to have to replace a C32

A 500hp K24 = 208.3 hp per Litre
A 500hp C32 = 156.2 hp per Litre

even if both are tuned well my money is on the C32 lasting longer.


Modified by Zahntech at 9:00 PM 2/19/2007


Modified by Zahntech at 9:01 PM 2/19/2007


Modified by Zahntech at 9:06 PM 2/19/2007

ATYPR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Zahntech &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sir2egk 646.90whp / 522.40tq @ 7600rpm GT35R K24 block/stock K20A2 head (11.2 @ 125)


I would be interested to see how long this motor lasts.</TD></TR></TABLE>

long enough to do this......

http://videos.streetfire.net/s...f.htm

BTW that's not a stock GT2.....

http://www.dragtimes.com/Porsc....html

Zahntech

Well that's very nice that they can risk people's lives by racing on the street.

One race is not enough to make the time and money worthwhile..I have clients that have been running Supercharged C30 motors at 350+hp for 3 and 4 years.

I wonder if that K24 is still going to be making 600hp with all the same parts installed in 3 years.

Ponyboy

Officially on behalf of HT outside of "Kills:" Shame on them! Street racing is illegal and extremely dangerous.

Unofficially: .....damn!

I'm sure that the longevity of that engine is in the "hours" timeframe. But still, that was quite impressive. IMHO. Oh, and that GT2 guy has a nice CGT too?

ATYPR

If you build it, yes.

My 50 miles a day daily beater has a little 1.6 making 437whp. It's been doing that for a little over 2 years with a 9800rpm rev limiter.

*edit*

I'm not suggesting people do this swap. I'm just saying worrying about power, or lack there of, shouldn't be a deterrent from doing the swap.

Knightsport

I can't imagine an F series being woth the time but a K24 flipped 180 degrees so it sits right where the C30 site could be interesting.

Interesting as in a work of design but not functionality.

IMHO the NSX is a torqueless wonder in a sea of fire breathing purebreds as it is.

I could only see doing this for road racing purposes where there was a motor size limit/power limit. Much like Top Secret have approached their cars for years.

Everyone thought they were crazy for dropping the 3S-GTE in place of the 2JZ-GTTE but they appeased the tech inspectors and won the GT300 class. lol

Zahntech

I would never say you couldn't get mucho power from a K24 ...obviously you can..however we are back to the cost issue...I just don't see how you can build more power for less money if you include the cost of the install and other issues that have yet to be found.

Also if you build big (500hp+) the Reliability concerns are looming as well.

pos_cd5

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knightsport &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Everyone thought they were crazy for dropping the 3S-GTE in place of the 2JZ-GTTE but they appeased the tech inspectors and won the GT300 class. lol</TD></TR></TABLE>

didnt they do that for weight and balance reasons? if there was a engine size limit then im unaware of that.

ninja 6

you'd be taking away the best part of the NSX

Top Ramen

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pos_cd5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">didnt they do that for weight and balance reasons? if there was a engine size limit then im unaware of that.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The JGTC series rules limited the amount of power each class could have, so a smaller engine that was pushed just a bit made much more sense than a big motor that was just lollygagging along. Same power with less weight is always better. And they could push it back farther in the engine bay, moving it closer to the center of the car.

The swap made sense in that situation for very specific reasons that have nothing to do with any scenario I can imagine using an nsx for here in the states. The reality is that the swapped Supras would get their butts kicked by Supras with the original (modified) motor on almost any track, without the hp limit rule.

pos_cd5

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Top Ramen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The reality is that the swapped Supras would get their butts kicked by Supras with the original (modified) motor on almost any track, without the hp limit rule.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i doubt that. even thought the JGTC GT300 supra has a smaller engine and less peak power, the GT300 supras are entirely different beast comapred to regular modified street supras. the only place i can even think a modified supra can take ona GT300 supra is on a drag strip. and thats if the street supra had slicks and 800hp+

Ponyboy

I think you're reading way too much into Top Ramen's post. Pretty sure he wasn't comparing a GT300 Supra with a street car.

Top Ramen

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pos_cd5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i doubt that. even thought the JGTC GT300 supra has a smaller engine and less peak power, the GT300 supras are entirely different beast comapred to regular modified street supras. the only place i can even think a modified supra can take ona GT300 supra is on a drag strip. and thats if the street supra had slicks and 800hp+</TD></TR></TABLE>

Really? Then why were the GT500 Supras (with the original motors) faster on every track they ran?

pos_cd5

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Top Ramen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Really? Then why were the GT500 Supras (with the original motors) faster on every track they ran?</TD></TR></TABLE>

i dont think the GT500 supras ran 2jz-gte engines either. if i remember correctly they also used 3s-gte engines, but instead of 300hp they made 500hp. dont know about the new GT300 supras, but i know the new GT500 supras are running some kind of N/A V8(or was it a V6, dont remember)

Top Ramen

The supras that dominated the GT500 class for a couple of years ran 2jz engines.

But back to the real point -- without a power limit set by the series, no one would have bothered to do the swap.

pos_cd5

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Top Ramen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The supras that dominated the GT500 class for a couple of years ran 2jz engines.

But back to the real point -- without a power limit set by the series, no one would have bothered to do the swap.</TD></TR></TABLE>

didnt know that, thanks for the info.

and i think we all agree that the 3s-gte wouldnt have been used if power was not limited.

but in your earlier post i thought you were tying to compare a GT300 supra w/ 3s-gte VS. a regular production supra w/ modified 2jz-gte. didnt know u were refering to JGTC supra w/ 3s-gte vs JGTC supra w/ 2jz-gte

BltByKrmn

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Top Ramen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The supras that dominated the GT500 class for a couple of years ran 2jz engines.

But back to the real point -- without a power limit set by the series, no one would have bothered to do the swap.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, they did not. The GT500 did indeed run a 3STGE.

They also currently run the 3UZFE.

Top Ramen

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BltByKrmn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No, they did not. The GT500 did indeed run a 3STGE.

They also currently run the 3UZFE.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Only some of the later ones. The cars that dominated the class for years (except for the last few) ran the original motors. And, the GT300 class has seen some other chassis types (such as the Kumho Celica) start to really dominate the older types.

But again (to try to get back on point), no one would be doing that swap if they were not limited to a low hp level by the series rules.


Modified by Top Ramen at 8:32 AM 2/22/2007

Type_RS_59

The only Supras in the JGTC were GT500 class cars. The GT300 cars were MR2 Spyders and Celicas. The GT500 cars ran a turbocharged 3SGTE before switching over to the non-turbo V8s and the GT300 cars ran a non-turbocharged version of the 3SGTE. The decision to use the 4 cylinder instead of the I6 or the V8 was purely due to weight distribution and handling. Toyota's IMSA GTP cars and Pikes Peak hillclimb cars in the early '90s ran 4 cylinder engines based on the 3SGTE that were making well over 1,000 HP.

Back on subject: Wouldn't a stock K24 with a bolt on turbo or supercharger make at least as much torque as a stock NSX if not much more?

Top Ramen

You know, now that I really sit down and think about it, I believe swaps are not allowed in GT300 so they must have run in the later part of the GT 500 series afterall. The supra series wins came in 2001, 2002 and 2005. I am almost certian the '05 car was one with the swap.

pos_cd5

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Top Ramen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You know, now that I really sit down and think about it, I believe swaps are not allowed in GT300 so they must have run in the later part of the GT 500 series afterall. The supra series wins came in 2001, 2002 and 2005. I am almost certian the '05 car was one with the swap.</TD></TR></TABLE>

wth? yes they are, swaps are alowed as long as they are from the same manufacturer. IE" the autobacs MR2 spyder that won GT300 class in 2002(or was it 2001.....i dont remember). they switched out the mr-s engine for the 3s-gte from the older mr2. and im not 100% sure but i bet the celicas werent running the 2zz-hsdkhusdfb (whatever there engine code is) either, considering they were RWD in GT300.

Ponyboy

Okay, no more Supra talk.

Top Ramen

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pos_cd5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wth? yes they are, swaps are alowed as long as they are from the same manufacturer.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Then the rule has changed (the JGTC rules have changed a LOT since the series started). I know that originally, the GT300 class did not allow swaps at all, in an effort to keep it open to smaller teams. The GT500 class has allways allowed swaps, as long as they are from the same manufacturer. Heck, GT500 allows more mods than almost any other similar racing class in the world, including front and rear tube-frame clips.

Anyhooooooow, to wrestle this thing back on point, there is not a series in the US that has rules favoring a similar move with the NSX.

pos_cd5

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Top Ramen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Anyhooooooow, to wrestle this thing back on point, there is not a series in the US that has rules favoring a similar move with the NSX.</TD></TR></TABLE>

time attack and bragging rights?

Blue-Civic-Hybrid

iTrader: (1)

Very interesting post about the K-series into the NSX... I wish I knew how to fabricate well!!!

a nice idea nonetheless....