electronspeeder

Have any of you tried the PF-90 or PF-97 compound brake pads? They seem to come highly recommended from the bimmer guys and PF seems used throughout big name racing.


[Modified by electronspeeder, 9:29 AM 4/8/2002]

jimbob

I've used them before. They're very very good, take some time to warmup, but I'm not sure they would be perfect choice for light cars. I find them sometimes just a touch too grabby for light cars, but a little practice really helps.

Having used a few race pads myself, I have to admit to PF compounds being the most aggressive and best ones I've used. Others I've tried include Porterfield R4, Hawk Blues, Hawk HT9 and Carbotech P+.

They're very good pads nevertheless and if you're very serious about track driving, you won't go wrong. Not recomended for street use however since they take longer to warm up than any other pad I've used.

electronspeeder

Thanks for the good comments! Maybe I should look into the PF97 compound. It seems that they work better in the cold than the PF90 and are overall a better pad anyhow.

jimbob

Still... Don't plan on making them full street duty pads. PF race pads are very aggressive. PF97 has better modulation characteristics. Like I said earlier, they're still VERY grabby so don't be suprised if you lock up too easily when they're up to temperature and don't brake well at all in low temperature.

I'm itching to try the new PF01 compound. Derek from PF told me that they're the best pads PF has made...

electronspeeder

Well, my friend runs PF90 on his M3 and they seem completely streetable without needed much warm up. And since the PF97 is supposed to work better than the PF90 when cold, why would it be less streetable?

Wouldn't the PF01 be even MORE aggressive? I'm looking for a aggressive track pad that is streetable. From what I hear is that the PF pads aren't so rotor friendly, how ever, a set of Brembo OE replacements are cheaper than pads so that doesn't worry me. I've also been considering Panther XP pads, which are rotor friendly, but wears much faster than PF pads.

Since i don't have ABS, I wonder if braking will be a difficult challenge.

Where do you get your PF pads from?


[Modified by electronspeeder, 2:27 AM 4/9/2002]

jimbob

The M3 is quite a bit heavier than your car (i assume). I've never tried the PF97. From the documentation I've read, it was designed for the rear so maybe they'll be acceptable on the street on a light car. I really couldn't tell you if they'll work for you. I've only used PF93 and PF90 and those 2 compounds will NOT work well cold and in a light car.

Yes, the 01's are more aggressive, but they've been telling me that it's a lot easier to control and modulate the older compounds, so I should give it a try.

Remember that there's no pad that is really a street/track compromise. Get the one that does the job for you at the track and see if it's acceptable on the street. Most of the time, you'll have to tend towards either track or street. Something that has a big range are the Panther + or XP's. You're right, they do last less long and aren't as "hardcore" as the PF compounds, but it sounds like you haven't gotten too many laps under your belt yet, so I'm pretty sure those will do fine.

Even the Panther + are night/day difference compared with stock pads. PF compounds, while the greatest "race" pads I've used, are quite unacceptable(at least the 93) on the street and in cold conditions (rotor wear and braking power).
I don't have ABS either and even if I did, I'd probably disable it. It takes practice with those pads. VERY easy to overbrake in a hurry... I was able to brake from 120mph on race compounds(tires) and lock up very easily with the PF93's. It took some time to get used to that kind of braking power and grabiness. I get my pads directly from PF.

Type-R 940

jimbob,

How hard were the PF pads on rotors? I currently have Panther+ pads for my ITR, but I am a little worried about the cost associated with them, as they are $140 for the front on my car and I guess only last 3-4 track days. It might actually be more cost effective for me to change the rotors ($100 shipped to my door for the front pair) than to change the pads!

Type-R 940

Can anyone give me an idea as to how much PF brake pads cost?

jimbob

PF pads are pretty hard on rotors, but I wouldn't say they're any harder than say Hawk Blues or any other real race pad. I've found the cost of all performance pads to be almost the same, aside from the JDM which cost way too much. P+ are fine pads. I assume you should be able to get more than 3-4 track days out of them... but then again I don't know how your use your brakes so I wouldn't know if you'd be able to stretch it. If you don't mind the dust on Hawks, give the Blues a try. They'll last a lot longer...

electronspeeder

Wow. PF told me they want $200 for PF90 for my car. I guess they stopped making them but still have a few sets left over. That's kind of expensive, I guess I may go for the Panther XP pads.

cobalt

Panther XP is comparable to the PFC 01 compound in terms of bite, feel, braking torque, and wear rate. It is more rotor friendly, however, and can be driven on the street to and from the events with worry. The PFC 01 has a slight edge in terms of initial bite only.

HTH... -Andie

electronspeeder

Really? It seems that the PF compounds REALLY last a long time after many hard track days. My buddy went through probably 30 track days on a single set of PF90s until he destroyed them and the rotors at Michigan International Speedway.

chad

i hated them compared to panther plus' and porterfield r4's

Type-R 940

What didn't you like about them?

electronspeeder

Yes, please.

jimbob

Really? I can't say I've tried the XP's yet. Of course I've tried Panthers and P+, but they're really not in PF93's league. If the XP's are really that great both in wear and feel, I will definately give it a try. I just can't quite grasp how Carbotech can make a pad like XP that can compete PF01 in performance AND be "streetable", within reason of course...

cobalt

The XP is streetable insofar as it will not machine the rotors when cold. The cold stopping is adequate...nothing brilliant...but it was not designed as a street pad by any means. We have customers who have driven the XP to and from the track without issue...just don't go barrelling up to a stop sign to test your threshold braking skills with these pads, hehe.

The regular/old Panther compound is closer to Hawk Black in performance. The Panther Plus is more like Hawk Blue and/or PFC 90 in performance...Blue and 90 will bite a bit more. The XP is very similar to PFC 01...better modulation and release, along with streetability, as discussed above.

-Andie

electronspeeder

What about wear? Do you really think it has similar wear rate to the PF01?

cobalt

The XP under race conditions will have similar wear rates to PFC 01. In terms of performance, the PFC 01 has an edge in initial bite, as mentioned before.

Someone mentioned in a previous post that their friend got 30 events or so out of one set of PFC 90? I find this very hard to believe, frankly...I'm sure PFC would also be very surprised. If anyone has more information about this, I'd certainly be interested...

HTH... -Andie


[Modified by cobalt, 11:32 AM 4/12/2002]

electronspeeder

A short video of what P+ looks like when used. Awesome!!!
http://216.29.210.12/Matt/typer/spark3.mpg (courtesy of ITR #940)