Dropspeed

Should not be a problem, my wife has driven my R, only problem might be parking in a tight spot.

Mattj

DutchITR1689

What I mean is, remove all the lines, pump most of the fluid out, loop 15, and instead of T-ing into 19 and 20 just loop them. In this case air (not fluid) will go from 19 to 20 and back during steering instead of going to a breather.

The Rob

Two questions about this:

1. I drive a 93 Integra LS with speed variable power assist. I think there is a power steering line that runs to the tranny? Does that sound right? What would I have to do different?

2. What classes of SCCA racing allow for power steering removal?

Civic Minded

iTrader: (1)

First off, thank you for the great post!!! I have read the thing front to back almost four times now, and I am embarrassed to say, that I am still unclear on something. Maybe I overlooked it somewhere in this post, but I don't think that I did.

My question(s):

-Are the steering rack's working components supposed to be lubricated by the PSF or not??

-Are you slowly damaging the rack by running around with little to no fluid down there?

I am really wanting to do this conversion, but I will only do it if no harm will come to the components that make up my steering rack.

Thanks for any further info you may be able to provide into this already very informative post!!!

Civic Minded

iTrader: (1)

Ok..... thanks! Anybody feel like helping with this???

rodimus

i would if i could..lol..

i'm still waitin on someone in the so cali area to see if

they could do this for me in exchange for some good cash.

EleanoR

I had a buddy help me do part of this today on my ITR. We just used the Acura hose that is listed on the 1st page and that is it for now. I wanted to see what it would feel like with it looped.

It does feel much better than with the belt off plus you shed around 20 lbs with the various lines, brackets, and hoses that you take out. I am going to be doing the rest of the process by adding the Tilton breather and what not. I hear this is the next step up from making it feel even better than just looping the lines.

Civic Minded

iTrader: (1)

Could someone PLEASE review my question above and see if they can answer it.

Thank you!

DutchITR1689

1 - If you are refering to the rack and pinion: No. Only the piston and the valve are lubricated by the fluid.
2- Don't know. But you should never drain all the fluid out.

Civic Minded

iTrader: (1)

Ah sank you!!!

EleanoR

My rack is finally complete after doing this whole conversion. Let me say that it does feel like i have power steering to a degree. It isn't hard to turn the wheel whatsoever but you do feel the road more which is exactly what i was wanting. By saying that i mean feeling it around curves.

I used compression fittings to T into the line that feeds the rack directly. Worked like a charm so far. Got em for $8 at a local place. Used the same reservoir (Tilton) and it does it's intended job as well. All in all a great mod that actually will free up some horsepower by not turning the PS pump and a bit of a diet on the front end of the car

thanks again Matt. great insight!

mike

SoCal ITR

This is a great thread. I plan on draining some fluid first, then see what I think of this conversion. From what I can see the parts will cost ~$30. How difficult is this to do AND how long should it take? Thanks.

EleanoR

No the parts will cost you much more than $30. I bought everything Matt did but i am in Florida and one of the places (Hosenow.com) doesn't let you order anything and have it shipped unless it is $30 or more. I had to buy 2 t-shirts.

So for the fittings and everything to loop the lines it was $70 roughly shipped. I then had to T into the line as Matt said to run a breather system as the RTR's do and that T fitting was another $8 which was actually cheap because you can get real expensive depending upon how you T into that metal line.

So for around $80-$85 this mod can be had if you do the work yourself

edit: it should take you around 2 hours to take the whole PS system out (depending upon how fast you are) and another couple of hours to T into the metal line and run it up to the breather and drain some of the fluid out. hope that helps

mike


[Modified by talkie25, 10:36 PM 7/27/2002]

White Lightnin

Just got a type R rack for free

1) How can I tell if it is really an R rack?

2) Also, my civic has 200k miles on its rack so I figure that replacing the rack I have with the R rack would be a good idea. If I run it with the breather will I see any benefits besides the fact that Im using a newer rack?

Y2moe00Si

Yo dropspeed send me an Email, y2moe99@hotmail.com I would like more info on this set-up. Like what i would need to do to get to the PS and so on and so fourth. A friend of mine is willing to help me out with it. And mabey you could meet up with you somewhere and you could take a look at it.

Thanx

JeffS

Just to chime in here after the fact...

I've been running a GSR rack (in a hatchback) with just the loop for quite a while now. I'm quite pleased with the feel of the rack and wouldn't trade it for a manual rack unless I was on a serious weight reduction plan. For a while now everyone that asked me about it asked if I had a breather. I had no clue what they were talking about. When I decided to try it, I hadn't really heard of anyone doing it.

If I were doing it again, I'd probably try the breather idea, maybe with a before and after, but I'm certainly not crawling in there to redo anything now.

Rboosted717

iTrader: (1)

fyi- a friend tried doing the "T" trick to the rubber loop that replaced the PS lines. He told me that the steering felt lighter, but not that light. He might try doing the "T" to the metal rack line as stated to see if that will make more of a difference.

PYITR821

Does anybody know the size of the fittings that you use to loop the two lines on the rack? Are they a metric thread? I just need some info on the fittings so I can loop my rack like you guys.

ringgold

I know this is for a ITR but I have know there are some guys on here that have or have owned a Sentra SE-R. I would like to know if this some mod can be made to a 92 SE-R? I think it can but not sure.

FLCivic

Of course everyone's main concern is the reliability of this mod. When you T into 19 or 20 you are compromising the steering rack. Those lines are metal for a reason. The fluid is under high pressure and over time can burst if the T is not good or if you use a rubber line, sure the Real Time type r's does it but I'm sure they maintain and check their motors after every race and more frequently than a regular driver. On the other hand, if it does burst you'll just have ps fluid everywhere and still be able to drive home.

norice

As mentioned elswhere in this thread, I really don't see why the breather cannot be run from the looped line.

Somebody is going to have to explain to me why I should drill into a metal line when the tirval and painless soution of running a breather hose from the looped line is available.

itr--779

Wow this is a great thread.
Where do you get the hardware and breather to put this together?

Also during some experimenting my R ran nearly a half a second faster
with my power steering belt off a couple of times. Power steering sucks horsepower
bad... Im wondering why no one else mentioned this fact?
This is a very cheap horsepower mod as well as weight reduction.

norice

The fact that removing the power steering increases whp has been discussed hundreds of times.

However, the increase (about 3-4 whp) will not make you run 1/2 second faster. You would need about 20 whp to do that in a Type-R.


[Modified by norice, 9:46 AM 8/30/2002]

itr--779

Sorry, I should have added a disclaimer...
no one mentioned in this thread that it is a hp gain.
Also true it is only 3-4 points from removing power steering but I also
made other changes at the same time including tire pressure, took the intake tube right off, and so on and so forth. sorry should have disclaimed that.
Russ

The fact that removing the power steering increases whp has been discussed hundreds of times.

However, the increase (about 3-4 whp) will not make you run 1/2 second faster. You would need about 20 whp to do that in a Type-R.

EleanoR

You don't drill into the metal line that feeds the rack to run the T connection to a reservoir. You cut the line and bend it around to get it to sit right with your T connection. The easiest thing to do would be to T into the line that is looped but i dont know how effective it would be against T'ing into the metal line as the RTR's have done. I copied Matt's system (which he got from RealTime).

BTW, i do check my PS system at least weekly and sometimes even a few times a week. I also keep a little fluid in the reservoir just for peace of mind (even though the more fluid you have out the easier it is to turn). I actually take fluid out before a track event to make it easier on myself.

Mike