dave7

Good luck, she's lookin good!

touringteg

Whoo good luck!! I understand thinning the heard. She is a beauty and will bring in the big $$$

1223

The R has sold - the auction was an exciting format and I'm happy with how it ended. The new owner is planning to fly in on Friday and start his long drive home. I won't say much, as soon it will be his story his tell (or not tell, if he wishes), but I think it's going to a good home.

I appreciate your well-wishes during the auction and through my 2 years of owning the car. I will return in a little while with some rambling thoughts on the ownership experience, the auction process, and whatever else.

steadysupreme

saw it on bringthetrailer, definitely well kept.

touringteg

Thank you for the update. Looking forward to your further thoughts on the BAT sale.

Today I found out about a 97 Supra TT that sold on BAT and the seller backed out of the sale. The buyer is trying to get his BAT buyers fee back now from BAT but they are refusing. The seller listed it on ebay for a higher price. Shady.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1997-toyota-supra-5/

The Bring a Trailer record that never was?

dave7

I skimmed through that supra Drama. The seller seems sketchy and backed out even after he agreed to a lower reserve? Gotta follow auction rules, there's a reason they have them. The seller doesn't seem to think it's an issue at all that he backed out of an auction that sold at/over the reserve. Imo that's big time lack of integrity, and he's suffering the consequences bringing all that drama on himself. He should have sold the car. But maybe I don't have the story straight idk.

I told 2 cars on BaT and had great experiences.

1223

Man, don't tell me that with the sale happening tomorrow! Haha. I don't expect any issues but my brain likes to kick up every wild scenario imaginable. Like I said, I'll share my BaT thoughts (though there aren't too many) after tomorrow.

1223

Bought my car two years ago to the day - flew into Seattle and drove back 13 hours to San Francisco. Today, 00-1223's new owner flew into San Jose and started his own drive home.

How it came to me:



How it left, two years later:



The deal went smoothly, in spite of my over-active imagination. I covered 800 miles on my drive home with the car in 2015, the new owner will rack up about 2,000 making his way back east over the next few days. I cleaned the car, loaded it with the stock parts, and threw in some earplugs and a 4-pack of Red Bull to get him started on his journey. I was sad to see the car go, but I enjoyed owning it and if you'll indulge me, I'll share some of my thoughts on the experience.

Owning the car

I didn't dream of owning a Type-R like some people do, and I can't say exactly what motivated me to add one to my crowded garage. I think it was mainly the opportunity to own a car that is widely considered an excellent driver's car, and a 'legend' in its corner of the car world, at a reasonable price (~$20k). That's a lot of money in the world of used Integras, with the R being essentially a souped-up economy car, but I argue that it's worth every penny. My car's sticker was around $24k - if you could buy this car brand-new as a 2017 model from a dealership for that money, it would sell like hotcakes. I knew that the R would not lose value while I owned it, so there wasn't much at risk in the financial regard.

Buying my car in 2015 was a learning experience, and I committed some rookie mistakes that will inform my future purchases. I don't want to rag on the original owner, because there is a chance that there was some miscommunication in my purchase process, but here are some lessons that I learned:

• don't inspect a car on a rainy day, or when it's wet
• don't buy a one-way flight to see/buy the car without being willing to cut your losses and fly home
• the only thing worse than no PPI is a bad PPI (pre-purchase inspection)
• don't fall in love with the car / idea of the car.

If you read my for sale listings, you saw that the car had slid off the road, been damaged, and repainted off-the-books by the original owner. I did not know this going into my purchase. I did not see the actual condition of the paint because I saw the car on a rainy Seattle morning. I wasn't prepared to eat the cost of my airfare and walk away when I saw that there were no VIN stickers or labels in the door jamb. I wanted a PPI done at the best Honda shop in the Seattle area, but it was too far for the owner so we had it done at their Acura dealer. This PPI was a waste of money, as they essentially evaluated the car as if they were taking it on trade (brake pad thickness... who cares?) and neglected to mention minor things like "car repainted, not particularly well" that actually impact the value of a collector vehicle. Finally, all of these were smaller elements of my main mistake: I fell in love with the car, or the idea of this particular car, before I saw it. Rose-tinted glasses were on as soon as I saw it pop up on Autotrader. An original-owner car with low miles and a clean title, this is the one!

As negative as all that sounds, the price was pretty acceptable even with the damage. The car drove extremely well and delivered the Type-R experience we all know and love. I used it for a bit of everything - daily-driving duties when my other cars were on jack stands; weekend windy-road car with friends; I used it in my first autocross some weeks ago. I learned that I have much to learn about car control, and that FWD can swing the back end around.



Boop. Photo credit: Ryan Panlilio

The car didn't give me a single problem in 2 years - not surprising for a Honda, but still a great characteristic for a sports car that revs out past 8k RPM. I touched on it in an older post, but the Type R had an incredible ability to make its driver feel like a hero and make going fast feel very simple. On Pescadero Road I gave a Cayman GT4 a hard time - he eventually pulled over for me - not because it's the faster car, but because I was so comfortable driving it quickly. My M3 has the same ability to flatter its driver. I may actually be terrible! Ha!



You guys asked me to compare my cars a long time ago. I don't really know how to do that. I wouldn't be able to choose a 'better' or 'best,' because they have different characters and they deliver joy in different ways.

Other assorted observations from ownership:

• I parked it outside, overnight, multiple times. Gasp! It didn't get stolen. Couldn't say that before today, or I'd have jinxed it.
• This car got respect from people from time to time when I'd drive it, but nothing like my M3. The neighbor kid would come by when I washed it and ask me "how you got one." It's easy kid, you just exchange money for goods and services...
• Lots of peoples' buddies had these in high school and they have stories to share - but they are always happy stories
• People who sorta kinda know about Integras would ask me how much I wanted when I was selling it. They'd look at my like I was crazy when I said $20k. Those outside the Type R bubble aren't keyed in to the uptick in prices.

That's as good a segue as any to...

Selling the car

Like my rationale for buying the car, I don't really know what possessed me to sell it. I enjoyed it but it didn't win my heart like it does for some owners. Earlier this year I had a zen-like feeling that I had experienced and enjoyed the car, and now it was time to pass it on to the next person and also open up a spot in the driveway for the next exciting car. I first listed it on Craigslist and here on the H-T forums. I put it on CL for the convenience of a local deal, and I put it on H-T because I wanted an enthusiast to be the next owner (would have put it on the Expo forums, but they're toast). Selling a Type-R on Craigslist is exactly what I thought it would be. The magic number appeared to be $15k ("...cash LMK"). My favorite response was probably from spence b, who said

??

The serious inquiries I got were all through H-T. I had two locals come by and see the car, both of whom were very nice (still keep up with one, we have other car interests in common) but we weren't aligned on price. I had a buyer on the east coast interested, so I worked with him to have a PPI done with a local shop. This was a frustrating experience. The mechanic was competent, and builds impressive Hondas himself, but during the inspection he became convinced that the car had frame damage. This was alarming for obvious reasons, so I pressed him for details on why he was reaching this conclusion - the details aren't important, but the gist is that he was making the judgment based on how things looked to his eye and not based on measurements or physical evidence. Going into the PPI the buyer was readying funds and the inspection was just a formality - afterward, I never heard from him again. The PPI is a double-edged sword; the mechanic is human, and if he thinks he sees something, it's pretty much game over. Needless to say I did not (and do not) agree with the mechanic's assessment.

The PPI experience left a sour taste in my mouth, and work started to really pick up in the summer, so I let my FS postings coast and expire. It had always been in the back of my mind to sell on BringATrailer, and our cars do well there, but with the accident history I had reservations about putting the car up in front of the angry mob that is the BaT comment section. While I went back and forth, they auctioned some other Rs with stories so I figured eff it, I'll give it a go. I submitted the car for consideration and was tentatively accepted within 24 hours. We had a quick back-and-forth about reserve price, then I started getting the ducks in a row and writing up all the details of the car for them. Working with the BaT staff was a positive experience, they were responsive and made the changes I requested without any fuss. The auction went live almost immediately. I do wish they gave more warning - luckily I'm pretty free this month, but we went from "it will be posted some time soon" to "your listing is live!" in about 45 minutes. My auction was, thankfully, pretty quiet in terms of comments. I did my best to be an active seller and make sure that questions were answered quickly.

I thought that BaT was going to elevate me to a plane of serious, no-nonsense buyers, but I did have a couple of Craigslist moments. In the first, minutes after my auction went live I had a message. "Call me about the Type R thanks." I hate when people tell me to call them like this, but I need to be a good seller, so I ring him up. He asks me a number of questions that are answered completely in the first paragraph of the listing. "Are you the original owner?" "How long have you had it?" "How many miles on it?" Come on, man... The second Craigslist moment came with 2 days left in the auction. Some guy asked,

I didn't respond. I wanted to tell him that I'd love $500k for it, but this is BaT and I have to be nice. The end of the auction was exciting. I was really happy when the bidding went past my reserve with many days to go, and with the auction ending around 1p on a Friday I booked a conference room at work and bought some pizza and invited my team to come in and watch the fireworks. We had a good time cheering for the different bids when they'd roll in, picking our favorite bidders (fan favorite TNugget did eventually prevail). I paid $99 to list my car, whether or not it sold, and that was all I paid BaT. The buyer paid 5% (a little more than $1000) as soon as the auction concluded. BaT gave me his contact information, and that was basically it for BaT's involvement. I'm not a lawyer so I cannot say for sure, but I don't know that there would have been any recourse if the buyer had said "eff it" and surrendered his 5% and decided not to go through with the purchase. Maybe read that Supra link above and see if it answers that question. In any case, the seller was in touch quickly and very easy to work with.

The Type R community and the future

When I picked up my car (well probably before I ever bought it, actually) I joined different Type R communities. Honda-Tech and the Expo forums were helpful and very enjoyable to use. You guys gave me great encouragement, guidance, and feedback during my time with my car. Thank you for that. It's pretty crazy to have a forum that's been around for so long, essentially since these cars were new... it's like a time machine to read the old posts and see how it all went down. I wonder if there is a point in time when the balance tipped from threads about modifying these cars to threads about restoring them to stock. There are some really knowledgeable, helpful people in this subforum. Keep it going, it's getting rare as forum people migrate to Facebook. The E30 M3 forum (s14.net) is a shell of what it once was, and the photo links are all long-gone, and it's sad. A huge amount of information has been lost with expired links and departed members.

On the other end of the spectrum, the Facebook Type R parts FS group is garbage. It is simultaneously home to the people whinging about Type R prices and the people asking $1000 for a floor mat with a straight face.

Increasing car values are a double-edged sword. It's cool to have an appreciating asset, but it brings other things... collectors insurance, flippers and speculators, increased risk of theft, and parts shortages and part hoarding. The E30 M3 (I keep drawing this parallel because I think it's very relevant) was, until about 2012, a < $10k track car that people would ride hard and wad up at the track. People didn't think twice. Parts cars were scrapped, stock parts thrown away because they weren't worth anything. There was something called the "$15k rule," which stated that you could either buy a perfect M3 for 15k, or buy one for 10k that would need 5k to be perfect. You can't get a rolling chassis for $15k these days. When the cars become investment items, unique-to-the-car parts become worth their weight in gold. The old guys hoard what they have, and when rare parts are reproduced by BMW (windshields, spark plug tools, floor mats) those same guys buy out the whole stock and just squirrel it away. If you manage to yank it away from them, you pay dearly.

I don't know that I have a solution for these things, but be prepared. I encourage you to share parts and resist the urge to extort your fellow enthusiasts. If Honda keeps up its part support, you may avoid this predicament altogether.

This has been a huge post. I didn't know exactly what I would end up writing when I started, but if you stuck with it, thanks. My participation in the forum will obviously taper off now that the car is sold, but I'll swing by every now and then to see how things are going. What's next for me? Well at the moment I own three cars that are all small, impractical, and of questionable reliability. The idea of a modern daily driver with a warranty sounds amazing. Right now I'm thinking a Nitrous Blue Focus RS. But maybe I should just take it easy on cars for the time being...

Cheers all.
P

stin1

iTrader: (1)

Good read. I watched the caR on bat as well. I knew I had seen it here on Honda-tech but I wasn't sure which thread. After seeing the pic when you first got it then it all clicked.

dave7

For what it's worth, the expo forums are back up: https://www.typerclub.org/forums/

I remember when you got this caR and took off incongruent parts like the Brembos. It really turned out nice by the time you sold it.

Great story and writeup. Thanks for sharing about the parts hoarding with E30 m3s. There are a few R guys here and there who sell parts cheaply. Hopefully we can keep it that way.

Maybe you needed to get a championship white type r. You'd have fallen in love.

Some of us that just love these caRs do so b/c of the classic videos from Best Motoring. The R was an underdog and beat up on higher hp cars. It also looks sexy af with the jdm front and HIDs.

You should get the new Volvo polestar wagon for your daily.

TNugget

Hi Everyone,

Very happy new owner of 00-1223 quickly checking in. I figured I would continue documenting 00-1223's journey where the previous owner (1223) left off. Since purchase, I've enjoyed the heck out of VTEC crossover, but with winter rains here, I'm now getting around to doing work on the car. Not surprisingly (based on my read-through of this thread) the car is in great mechanical shape. So, I expect all the work to be on the cosmetic side.

I'm going to be transparent about the work that goes in to bringing this car as close to the condition it was when it left the dealership. As the previous owner made clear, the car was in an accident and is not cosmetically perfect. I've started to take apart the car to do a deep clean and get better visibility on the extent of repairs.done by the original owner. With the car down to the bones, I'm confirming that the left rear quarter panel had to be replaced (was expecting this to be the case given 1223's description of the accident). Fortunately, only the quarter panel skin appears to be involved, but the shop must not have used weld through primer because the spot welds on the underside is starting to rust. I'll be doing preventative work over the winter to carry me over until I can work out a more permanent fix that involves properly installing a new left rear quarter panel (it was hard to find, and will cost a pretty penny).

I probably made that sound worse than it is. More importantly, I want to be absolutely clear that I'm not suggesting in the slightest that the car was misrepresented. I had a clear understanding that I was buying a well kept car that had previously been involved in an accident, and I set my expectations appropriately. A month wiser, I am still very happy with the car and purchase process. Now, I'm going off to collect parts to put this R back in stock form. Progress pictures and more detailed posts to follow.

PaulMc

iTrader: (1)

That perfectly sums it up. It's total trash.

Tom B

Sounds like she's in very good hands. Would be great to see pictures of the work you do to heR.

hungsteR

I think it's awesome that you are going to continue documenting 00-1223's journey. Please keep us updated and welcome to the family.

CandyRedRC46

Great read! Having just gone through the whole finding the leak ordeal, my self, I felt your pain. The whole time reading this, I was hoping you figured out that it was the tail light gaskets (Painfully obvious from the previous owner's makeshift gasket install). Also, to the new owner, another source of water leaks is the weather stripping on the:

15 74200-ST7-A01 Cowl Top Assembly

I was dealing with a flooded interior too and it took me forever to figure and sort this out. A Facebook friend of mine is a Honda master tech and has given me a few pointers as to what he is used to seeing and how to fix it. Apparently the dealer fix for water leaks is to remove the taillights, seal the top seam of theirs with Black RTV, drill drain holes in the bottom and reinstall with a new oem gasket. Then double check the sunroof drain lines (Non Type R). Finally the AC air intake under the "Cowl top assembly" has a large metal flap in front of it. They bend this metal flap back a bit so its angled back a few degrees and behind the top cover (so any water that makes it past the cowl weather stripping won't simply run off, drip onto the flap and into the air conditioning vent), clear out any debris and then insure that all the Cowl top assembly's weather stripping is healthy. I was actually leaking water in both areas and as soon as Florida rainy season started, it didn't take long for the trunk and carpet to get soaked and whole car to smell like wet shoes.

feck

Great read 1223! And great to see the new owner coming here.

+1. The loss of traffic to forums in favour of Facebook has been a negative one in my humble. Facebook tends to engender a photo based look at me style of posting, forums can have that, but have far more easily searchable information.

Quoted for truth.

Very good insight on how things go when a car goes to classic status. An uncle of mine who has collected vintage Alfas for most of his life warned me of similar many years ago. He also advised me on spares to buy and store up. His opinion was the "best" classic car was one where it was a special version of a standard and popular car(it helps if they were also popular with tuners). Both the E30 M3 and the Type R fit the bill. So general parts were likely to remain available and not too expensive, but that the parts exclusive to the special version were the ones to keep an eye out for. His list of bits to store were: bumpers, wings/fenders, glass, headlights, rear lights, seat material and model specific trim parts. He noted that if a car was made in large enough numbers and became popular as a classic interior trim was often remanufactured by third parties, as were some body panels like sills(but originals always fitted better). I'm not so sure our R's will get the third party trim parts, as there's not enough of them left. Could be wrong though. He also said that when cars hit a certain vintage this becomes less of an issue as buyers expect them to have been retrimmed at some point and often with non original materials(e.g. vinyl replaced with leather), but that originality always holds a premium. In the case of R's the alacantara will be easy to fix, not so easy will be the seat centres material.

I too saw the R go to through the "cheap car" and tuner phase. It's only a few years ago where a friend of mine got one for the equivalent of 2000 dollars. To be fair the Irish market is about the cheapest worldwide, even today. 4000 -5000 dollars examples going unsold type of thing. I also saw the wholesale dumping of stock parts for tuner parts. I actually witnessed a guy throwing an original airbox and radiator into the local dump. Even things like steering wheels, strut braces and back seats going the same way. Now parts prices are certainly climbing, even where I am. The cars go unsold but spares for those few who still have them go up in price. Which means of course if you can't sell one locally for 5K people tend to scrap more cars to sell the parts on eBay etc.

When you see pics like this...

Every one a "dead" R.

TNugget

It’s been a while so I wanted to give a quick update. 00-1223 still runs great (no surprise) and I’ve been slowly replacing tried trim pieces and the odd missing clips. I’m about to replace the fender liners today and have the car stored for winter sometime this month. It’s a beautiful day so I’m about to visit the Acura dealer to pick up a few missing bits needed finish swapping out the liners.

Ok, so I have a few questions. I notice after starting the car and driving off for the first time, the car makes a buzzing noise. Does every ITR do this?

Also, I’m pretty sure it’s the clutch master making the squeaking/creaking noise every time I depress the clutch. Does anyone have a fix other than replacing the master? I heard the dealer packs it with urea grease but also been advised against doing that since the clutch master is self-lubricating.

330R

The ~ 1 second buzzing noise from the ABS modulator when first accelerating after starting the car is normal.

The squeaking sounds like the ball at the end of the slave cylinder that sits in the clutch release fork is dry. Unbolt the slave from the trans, pull it out of the boot covering the release fork, clean off the ball, lube it with high temp urea grease, and reinstall.

TNugget

Thank you. Wouldn’t have even guessed it was the abs modulator. Still have lots to learn. Will report back after lubing the ball joint.

dave7

Care to share your process of the slave cylinder service? My gs-r has the same noise, I gotta do that at some point too.

TNugget

After 2 years of looking, I got some new (to me) rear interior panels! The ones currently on the caR were cut to accommodate a Mugen rear strut bar. The cuts on the left? side was a real butcher job and even though I can’t see it 99% of the time, it bothers me that the interior panels are chewed up.

I’m tempted to do some Honda badge engineering... The car is halfway there with the JDM steering wheel, and engine cover. JDM 16 wheels and Honda badging would keep things consistent...

Previous owner was very kind to send a box of parts he found after I drove back home 2000 miles to TN. Looking at it again now, I spy what looks like a fuel pump. I wonder if there is an aftermarket pump currently in the car. Maybe that’s why the fuel pump whine is so loud. I’ll swap it out tomorrow to see if it brings down the whine.

Edit-

Turns out the car had a Walbro fuel pump. I got the oem pump in there and I can barely hear it even with the back seats removed. I find it so much nicer to drive without the constant whine from the fuel pump.