96hatchBoy

ok i am in the middle of the timing belt change on my gsr engine but am very confusd!

when i go get TDC with the crank pulley off I line up the mark on the crank to the mark on the BLOCK and put the cam gears in the "up" position for tdc. OK great, BUT....

However, when I put the actual crank pully and timing cover back on and turn it to where the white TDC mark on the pulley line up with the mark on the TIMING COVER, the cams do not point up anymore at TDC?? Is this how its suppose to be?? I mean, which one do you use to set the mechanical timing--the mark on the crank to the arrow on the block OR the TDC white mark on the crank PULLEY to the cover??

I always thought they were both the same but apparently not. please help this is very confusing! I think i doing it right because every write up i see says use the mark one the crank to the mark on the block, but i gotta know for sure!

96hatchBoy

bump

B_Swapped93

I just did my timing belt i ditched the lower timing belt cover(easier to see imo) here's the DIY removal and install i followed http://www.team-integra.net/forum/bl...nt-g3-teg.html. My crank pully had no markings so i just made sure my bottom end was at TDC then i set the cams as if i was installing new ones(took them out). Mind you i had my whole head off so that made it easier to do this IMHO this may not be the right way but my engine runs great no issues what so ever it's just a different way of doing it not a hack job. this might help explain the cam part i mentiond

96hatchBoy

how did you determine that your bottom end was at tdc without marks from the crank?

B_Swapped93

I had the head off the car so i could see the piston 100%. But you can use two other mothods to detemine TDC on the bottom 1 is not the best but will work:Stick a pencel down the #1 CYL spark plug whole(make sure it's new and long enough) then turn the crank pully back and fourth till you see where exactly tdc is. The 2nd is shown here by Ericthecarguy

96hatchBoy

ok so basically when turning the crank and the pencil is as high as it will go then that will be tdc for the bottom and i just manually turn the 2 cams by hand to their up positions?

S2BumpsticksGSR

Remove all plugs to turn over easily by hand(blow out tubes first to get debris out). There are 3 close together that are used for timing light reference(not used in static timing). Use the mark on pulley near these three that is all by itself to find crank tdc. Once you line that up w/cover mark, leave it. Now loosen timing belt and put cams in tdc position. Double check all 3 are lined up correctly, reinstal/tension timing belt- done. Reinstall plugs/wires, fire it up and adjust timing w/light. Mission accomplished.

96hatchBoy

I know but the problem is that that tdc doesnto match up when i line the crank (pulley off) line with the line on the oil pump. i am worried because they are different from eachother? you understand what i mean?

Edit* what i mean to say is that after i line everything to tdc based off the crank itself and the oil pump, when i put the pulley back on and turn it to the lone white mark to the mark on the cover, the cams are no longer in the tdc position. is ths how its suppose to be?

S2BumpsticksGSR

I've always used the pulley. Are you sure its the correct pulley?

96hatchBoy

i think it is but not 100 sure i bought it off a guy and he didnt say anything about it being a different pulley.

well i was just thinking about saying **** it and line it up with the pulley itself but that makes me worried the pistons will be in the wrong position and i will damage the engine. because the Ti write up based the tdc off the crank and the block method. but i dont know know.

i havent started the car back up because i am paranoid now not knowing which tdc marks to trust.

S2BumpsticksGSR

If anything, you can try both methods and turn by hand carefully, feeling for contact. Sometimes worn pulleys will rotate on rubber insulator, too. Have seen this happen on other engines, but yet to see it happen on a honda

B_Swapped93

Hand turn it several time BEFORE you start it up and see how it turns(should be smoth)

96hatchBoy

with all the spark plugs out?

and when i stick the pencil in the 1 cylinder and it goes all the way up, how do i know if it is at tdc for the exhaust or compression?

B_Swapped93

yes all plugs out UP:TDC bottom:BDC you want the pencil to be as hight as it can be.

The last part doesn't make sense to me. As the compression is for the whole cyl both intake and exhasut valves will be closed on the comp stroke.

96hatchBoy

ok i see what your saying. so juss to be clear when the pencil is at its highest point that is when i know the bottem end is tdc and at that point the cams both need to be in their up positions and if not i just turn them manually with my hands to their up positions (lined up with head)?

Edit* also if i use a long extension from a socket wrench would it damage the piston (cant find a pencil)?

B_Swapped93

Yes highest point said pencil object is, is where TDC for the bottom end is and where you want to be and yes that's where you'll want the cam gears to be in the "up postion". You can't turn the cams by hand you'll need to do it how it was done in the vid i posted for you. Be carfull not to drop that extension in(could damage the piston top)

96hatchBoy

ok this maight sound bad but when i first tried getting tdc before i put the new belt on i did physically turn the cam gears to get them in their up positions, i just physically turnd the gears with my hands. can that cause damage? they werent real easy to turn but it wasnt that extremely hard either it took a little muscle

edit*because what happen was when i lined up the crank line to the block arrow the cam gears were slightly off so i had to turn them, but not that much. just about an inch or two id say

B_Swapped93

No, there's no damage caused by doing that, i tried it once and cut my hand really bad I just did it as if I were installing new cams. when you turn them do they stay in place ?

96hatchBoy

yes they stay in play they are not real loose or anything. let me ask you this if an engine is not in correct mechanical TDC could it cause a car to hesitate when at operating temp or hot weather?

before i started this t belt job the car would hesitate in acceleration bad when it was warm outside. i am thinking that maybe it might have been not in tdc before either.

B_Swapped93

You'r car most likley wouldn't start if it was off by enough. But if you were off by a bit/little you could feel slugishees ALL the time. there's one other thing to consider there are 3 TDC/UP markings on you'r gear the're on the side they should line up also. here's a pic note the little red lines

S2BumpsticksGSR

The piston is the muscle and cams are the brains. The piston has to be up, it doesn't care where the cams are. The brains(cams) determine, through the valves, whether or not its the correct stroke the pistons are on. Maybe this will help you make sense of it a little better

m4xwellmurd3r

yeah, As long as cylinder 1 is at TDC that's all that matters. Then you can just set the cams to TDC.

The only difference between the piston being at TDC exhaust or compression, is where the cams are. The cams tell the engine if it's compression or exhaust.