head gasket
12-29-2009, 12:20 PM
#2
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Re: head gasket
no.. that sounds about right.. depending on where you go.. really, its kinda a pain in the ***.. lol..
But its not too hard to do yourself... if you are somewhat mechanically inclined.. for about 300-400 bucks, you can get the head gasket, new headbolts, water pump, oil pump, new gaskets for the top end, AND a full timing kit (belt, tensioner, pulleys), and install it yourself in the course of a few hours..
BUT, if your head gasket is blown, then you need to get a precision straight edge and check the block and the head for straightness on the mating surface, as it may have warped..
but yeah.. with labor and parts, that seems about right.. i have heard ALOT worse quotes, though..
But its not too hard to do yourself... if you are somewhat mechanically inclined.. for about 300-400 bucks, you can get the head gasket, new headbolts, water pump, oil pump, new gaskets for the top end, AND a full timing kit (belt, tensioner, pulleys), and install it yourself in the course of a few hours..
BUT, if your head gasket is blown, then you need to get a precision straight edge and check the block and the head for straightness on the mating surface, as it may have warped..
but yeah.. with labor and parts, that seems about right.. i have heard ALOT worse quotes, though..
12-29-2009, 12:24 PM
#3
Re: head gasket
It's not surprising that the mechanic is charging that much, but it's not a difficult DIY. You just need to remove the head to replace the headgasket, which is an afternoon's work with the car on the ground. Just make sure you don't mess up the head bolts during install and removal, and pay close attention to recommended torque specs. A head gasket is less than $200. But if you need to use a mechanic expect to pay for it.
12-29-2009, 12:41 PM
#4
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Re: head gasket
lot of this depends on the car. the old civic d15's had HG failures over time that let water into a cylinder. of course a fast HG replacement had them running great. an integra gsr almost never has a head gasket failure and when you do have a condition that appears to be a HG it's usually a warped deck or warped head. the vast majority of MLS gaskets don't fail, it's the surface they mate to that causes the problem.
12-29-2009, 01:00 PM
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Re: head gasket
but you can TOTALLY do it, if you arent a complete id10t, and have a manual, and some patience..
I cannot stress enough the need to replace the WHOLE timing kit and pumps while you are in there.. its just a lil more money, and will make your car last alot longer... its just so time consuming to get in there in the first place, you might as well replace that stuff, as well..
12-29-2009, 02:06 PM
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12-29-2009, 03:01 PM
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Re: head gasket
On a B-Series to remove the head don't you need to remove the cams to get at the head bolts? And don't you need to remove the timing belt to remove the cams?
If your taking it all apart you might as well replace it, since the timing belt is not something you want to fail while driving down the road.. and its only like $40.00 for an OEM one.
That $40.00 can save you hundreds in the long run... just my $.02
Last edited by heeltoehonda; 12-29-2009 at 03:17 PM.
12-29-2009, 03:33 PM
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Re: head gasket
Just curious.. how do you do that?
On a B-Series to remove the head don't you need to remove the cams to get at the head bolts? And don't you need to remove the timing belt to remove the cams?
If your taking it all apart you might as well replace it, since the timing belt is not something you want to fail while driving down the road.. and its only like $40.00 for an OEM one.
That $40.00 can save you hundreds in the long run... just my $.02
On a B-Series to remove the head don't you need to remove the cams to get at the head bolts? And don't you need to remove the timing belt to remove the cams?
If your taking it all apart you might as well replace it, since the timing belt is not something you want to fail while driving down the road.. and its only like $40.00 for an OEM one.
That $40.00 can save you hundreds in the long run... just my $.02
not if you got an Impact Wrench.. haha
12-29-2009, 03:45 PM
#11
Re: head gasket
sounds fair to me, I just did my own headgasket and I dont think I would do it for less than that price for someone elses car. Guy needs to make money. Also agree its not a bad diy.
12-29-2009, 04:19 PM
#12
Re: head gasket
Just curious.. how do you do that?
On a B-Series to remove the head don't you need to remove the cams to get at the head bolts? And don't you need to remove the timing belt to remove the cams?
If your taking it all apart you might as well replace it, since the timing belt is not something you want to fail while driving down the road.. and its only like $40.00 for an OEM one.
That $40.00 can save you hundreds in the long run... just my $.02
On a B-Series to remove the head don't you need to remove the cams to get at the head bolts? And don't you need to remove the timing belt to remove the cams?
If your taking it all apart you might as well replace it, since the timing belt is not something you want to fail while driving down the road.. and its only like $40.00 for an OEM one.
That $40.00 can save you hundreds in the long run... just my $.02
To the OP -- replacing the timing belt is a good thing to do, but if it's only got 30k on it there is absolutely no reason to replace it. It's a lot of time and a little bit of money for something potentially unnecessary.
12-29-2009, 04:53 PM
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Re: head gasket
To the OP -- replacing the timing belt is a good thing to do, but if it's only got 30k on it there is absolutely no reason to replace it. It's a lot of time and a little bit of money for something potentially unnecessary.
right, if you only have 30k on the engine, then you shouldnt need to, but if you only have 30k on the engine and you are changing the head gasket, then what else is wrong with it?
even if you dont replace the pumps (which you totally should anyway), replace the WHOLE timing kit.. not just the belt.. 100 bucks could save you 500
12-29-2009, 05:00 PM
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Re: head gasket
You can slip the timing belt off of the cam gears if the tensioner has been loosened. Alternatively, with the VC off you can remove the cam holders and pull the cams out with the gears still attached and the TB on.
To the OP -- replacing the timing belt is a good thing to do, but if it's only got 30k on it there is absolutely no reason to replace it. It's a lot of time and a little bit of money for something potentially unnecessary.
To the OP -- replacing the timing belt is a good thing to do, but if it's only got 30k on it there is absolutely no reason to replace it. It's a lot of time and a little bit of money for something potentially unnecessary.
I agree with you about not having to replace it if there is only 30k on the engine, but when I bought my car I was told there was 130k on the shell and 40k on the engine.. I didn't completely trust that their was ONLY 40k, so I went ahead replaced it anyways. Better to be safe than sorry
12-29-2009, 05:01 PM
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Re: head gasket
Oh ok.. I understand what you mean.
I agree with you about not having to replace it if there is only 30k on the engine, but when I bought my car I was told there was 130k on the shell and 40k on the engine.. I didn't completely trust that their was ONLY 40k, so I went ahead replaced it anyways. Better to be safe than sorry
I agree with you about not having to replace it if there is only 30k on the engine, but when I bought my car I was told there was 130k on the shell and 40k on the engine.. I didn't completely trust that their was ONLY 40k, so I went ahead replaced it anyways. Better to be safe than sorry
12-29-2009, 07:31 PM
#16
Re: head gasket
Personally what I would do is:
If I didn't know the mileage on the timing belt -- replace immediately
If the TB (timing belt, not throttle body) had to come off and it had mid to high milage -- replace, because it's such a PITA to remove that it would be worth the $100 to have a new one and not have to take it off again in a couple years.
If the TB doesn't have to come off -- wait until recommended service interval
Since the OP doesn't have to take the TB off, it might be better to leave it be. By way of example, you wouldn't replace the TB when you were doing a brake job... But if the OP decides to take it off when the head is off, the extra cash for a new TB would be worth even it if it meant never having to take it off again for five years (extra safety notwithstanding).
That said, for being careful and doing it right. If there's any question about the age or condition of the TB or water pump, you might as well replace them. I just wanted the OP to know that replacing the timing belt could be considered optional, and isn't necessarily related to removing the head.
If I didn't know the mileage on the timing belt -- replace immediately
If the TB (timing belt, not throttle body) had to come off and it had mid to high milage -- replace, because it's such a PITA to remove that it would be worth the $100 to have a new one and not have to take it off again in a couple years.
If the TB doesn't have to come off -- wait until recommended service interval
Since the OP doesn't have to take the TB off, it might be better to leave it be. By way of example, you wouldn't replace the TB when you were doing a brake job... But if the OP decides to take it off when the head is off, the extra cash for a new TB would be worth even it if it meant never having to take it off again for five years (extra safety notwithstanding).
That said,
for being careful and doing it right. If there's any question about the age or condition of the TB or water pump, you might as well replace them. I just wanted the OP to know that replacing the timing belt could be considered optional, and isn't necessarily related to removing the head.
12-29-2009, 08:56 PM
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12-30-2009, 05:06 AM
#18
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Re: head gasket
i come across to many threads like this!
do it right the first time, i believe a long time a go my mechanic charged me around $900 for the head gasket replacement and for the head to be freshened, i since have been building the b series motor for years, if you have come to the conclusion your head gasket needs to be replaced do it right the first time! the main areas of focus for you would be trueness in the block make sure theres no warpaged this is where i would pull the entire motor and have the block checked but you can skip this if you feel the block is ok but thats a whole diffrent story! get the head checked and serviced at a local machine shop, you can go to napa they do machine work or theres many to find they will usually charge you $350 this will include a 3 angle valve job hot tank valves regrinded,cam seal installed and cams will be lubed and cleaded as well, and the head will be either resurfaced or decked if neaded or requested for higher compression, new valve seals will be installed you must provide them, this is where you go and get your self a head gasket set, 2 options either in my experience are fine ebay sells head gasket sets some come with certain things neaded that the oem head gasket set comes with but the ebay sets are almost more than half the amont of the oem ones they still have good seals ect. i have used both sets in motors i have built and had no issues, the kits focus will be the head gasket, valve seals and the 3 o rings located under the middle cam cap and the the two oil galleys located under the cam caps on the cam gear side (im assuming this is a b series vtec motor) other nessasary gaskets and seals are also included, give these seals along with the head and you will recieve a brand new head with 0 miles! dont just replace the head gasket and find out you have bad valve seals or warped head or slightly bent valves droping the compression of the motor after replacing that head gasket, your gonna slap your self for having to redo everything over and you can only use that head gasket once i dont care what people tell you, get your self a new timing belt along with a new water pump, remember the crank pulley will need to be removed when installing the timing belt dont skip non of these for these are all related when replacing these parts as part of the tune up or annual 50k tune up. when replacing your head gasket the first time remember to place the dowel spacers in there correct spots on each of the corners of the head on the exhaust side and most importantly use arp head studs remember once you remove your oem stock head studs they are useless really because the stretched when torqued so you wont be able to use them i dont care what people tell you, use the oem studs again and i bet the head will lift and there goes your headgasket again! its insurance for all your motors investments. and torque them properlly you can do it your self if you got a friend to help and the right tools theres many write ups to help look at c-speed.com but it will be a chanledge if this is your first time, set timing or mark the dizzy so you set it back in the same spot to ease reassembly, or you can give me $250 and ill do it lol.
do it right the first time, i believe a long time a go my mechanic charged me around $900 for the head gasket replacement and for the head to be freshened, i since have been building the b series motor for years, if you have come to the conclusion your head gasket needs to be replaced do it right the first time! the main areas of focus for you would be trueness in the block make sure theres no warpaged this is where i would pull the entire motor and have the block checked but you can skip this if you feel the block is ok but thats a whole diffrent story! get the head checked and serviced at a local machine shop, you can go to napa they do machine work or theres many to find they will usually charge you $350 this will include a 3 angle valve job hot tank valves regrinded,cam seal installed and cams will be lubed and cleaded as well, and the head will be either resurfaced or decked if neaded or requested for higher compression, new valve seals will be installed you must provide them, this is where you go and get your self a head gasket set, 2 options either in my experience are fine ebay sells head gasket sets some come with certain things neaded that the oem head gasket set comes with but the ebay sets are almost more than half the amont of the oem ones they still have good seals ect. i have used both sets in motors i have built and had no issues, the kits focus will be the head gasket, valve seals and the 3 o rings located under the middle cam cap and the the two oil galleys located under the cam caps on the cam gear side (im assuming this is a b series vtec motor) other nessasary gaskets and seals are also included, give these seals along with the head and you will recieve a brand new head with 0 miles! dont just replace the head gasket and find out you have bad valve seals or warped head or slightly bent valves droping the compression of the motor after replacing that head gasket, your gonna slap your self for having to redo everything over and you can only use that head gasket once i dont care what people tell you, get your self a new timing belt along with a new water pump, remember the crank pulley will need to be removed when installing the timing belt dont skip non of these for these are all related when replacing these parts as part of the tune up or annual 50k tune up. when replacing your head gasket the first time remember to place the dowel spacers in there correct spots on each of the corners of the head on the exhaust side and most importantly use arp head studs remember once you remove your oem stock head studs they are useless really because the stretched when torqued so you wont be able to use them i dont care what people tell you, use the oem studs again and i bet the head will lift and there goes your headgasket again! its insurance for all your motors investments. and torque them properlly you can do it your self if you got a friend to help and the right tools theres many write ups to help look at c-speed.com but it will be a chanledge if this is your first time, set timing or mark the dizzy so you set it back in the same spot to ease reassembly, or you can give me $250 and ill do it lol.
12-30-2009, 07:48 AM
#20
Re: head gasket
As I mentioned above, you can either:
1) Loosen the tensioner bolt and work the timing belt off of the cam gears. Then you can remove the head as usual (remove VC, remove camshafts, remove head)
2) Remove the valve cover and upper timing belt cover and remove cam holders. Pull the camshafts (still attached to cam gears) out through the timing belt. To reinstall cams you will need to loosen the tensioner.
Neither of these methods requires removing any of the accessory belts, removing the crankshaft pulley, or removing the timing belt. It might even be possible to do the above without removing the drivers side motor mount. You can bring the crank to TDC by placing the car in gear and turning a front wheel by hand, or by turning the camshaft pulley bolt clockwise.
1) Loosen the tensioner bolt and work the timing belt off of the cam gears. Then you can remove the head as usual (remove VC, remove camshafts, remove head)
2) Remove the valve cover and upper timing belt cover and remove cam holders. Pull the camshafts (still attached to cam gears) out through the timing belt. To reinstall cams you will need to loosen the tensioner.
Neither of these methods requires removing any of the accessory belts, removing the crankshaft pulley, or removing the timing belt. It might even be possible to do the above without removing the drivers side motor mount. You can bring the crank to TDC by placing the car in gear and turning a front wheel by hand, or by turning the camshaft pulley bolt clockwise.
12-30-2009, 08:12 AM
#21
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Re: head gasket
I know how to change a head gasket, I could probably do it with my eyes closed. What you said was "You can remove the head without taking off the t-belt and crank pulley." so I thought you actually thought there was a way to take the head off without removing the timing belt from the cam gears. Now, what I think you meant was it can be done without taking the timting belt off of the crank pulley but that is not what you originally said.
12-30-2009, 08:39 AM
#22
Re: head gasket
Slipping the timing belt off of the cam gears is hardly the same as taking the timing belt off completely, which is what I meant when I said 'taking off the timing belt.' Of course the camshafts have to be removed when the head comes out, and the cam gears have to come out of the timing belt for that to happen, but the timing belt can stay on the water pump, tensioner and crank gear; the crank pulley can stay on; and the power steering, alternator, and a/c belts can stay on as well. Sorry if I was misleading.
12-30-2009, 08:54 AM
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Re: head gasket
dont be surprised if your tensioner fails and makes your timing belt skip.. its too cheap not too do...
its your car, but i have seen it happen.. cost ALOT more to replace a head than the timing kit **thumbsup**
its your car, but i have seen it happen.. cost ALOT more to replace a head than the timing kit **thumbsup**
