bmxkills

iTrader: (2)

Why wouldn't you just build your own motor? haha. Just get a GSR or B20 block, port and polish a b16 head, cams and valve springs/retainers, and a B16 or Type R tranny? It'll cost as much as a Type R, but make more power.

racebum

the better way to put this is how far you plan on upgrading.

if some guy is going to buy a gsr and do stage 1 cams, a blox intake manifold, larger TB and some sort of header you're absolutely money ahead buying the ITR since it basically has all this stock AND you don't have to spend money on the tune.

if you're going big like jun3 or the like then sure, save money on the gsr since you'll be replacing it all on the itr just the same

racebum

a b20 needs to be sleeved if you want it to live 10 years or go real mileage

as for the gsr? few reasons probably

1. finding a core in good shape
2. finding a shop capable of doing the work correctly

if a guy had a solid core you could have golden eagle rebuild your motor for a couple G, stock rebuild anyway and that's really not a half bad deal since it will all be new again. the ONLy drawback i can think of to this is the used crank and acl bearings which won't be set quite as **** as factory. good chance they will come in a bit looser which is good for hp production, but a neg for longevity

Cripton805

Fyi people.

There is a Type R front... "Obviously"

There's many JDM fronts like Si-Vtec, Sir-G, Type-R, etc... for the ones that are the same as the SIR-G and Si-Vtec.
Yes the difference will be in the headlight, but to say he is wrong by calling it a Type R front is stupid because he might "In fact" have a legit one.

By just saying it's a JDM front, it can be an Si-Vtec, SIR-G, etc...

For you guys to claim he is wrong is a fail because he might in fact have a Type R front end. He just didn't specify if it was USDM, UKDM, JDM, AUDM, etc..

Obviously by the picture you guys new it was JDM because it's the only place where that front was available unless it was taken to Europe, United Kingdom, United States, etc...

To be exact...
It's a 96+ JDM front possibly R spec (legit or headlight swapped) front for you people trying to bash on him.



As far as the swap goes,
Get a Si-Vtec / Sir-G B18C.
Get a Brian Crower stage 2 built head and bolt ons.
Welcome to the 180-200whp club with a bomb tune an legit parts.

Cripton805

You can have any JDM B18C engine in your GSR.
They're stamped the same if its a JDM ITR or Sir-G, etc...
The difference will be that head will be stamped PR3 on the head or P72 for the "GSR". It won't have the snail Imanifold.

It wouldn't make a difference because you wouldn't be able to get popped for one because you can use B18C JDM engines for a GSR. You just can't get B18B, B20Z, B16A, etc... a different variant.

And to top it off, they wouldn't know those minor differences. Especially if you had a swapped manifold. He wouldn't know the difference between the Pr3 or P72 stamp or even look for it on that head. It is more likely that they would tear off the head and look at the pistons lmao...

vtecdc4

the guy that said b20v should delete his account

Cripton805

Why is that??? It can be reliable if built right, but would take money.
I know people running B20Vs on the daily without a problem.

"Key"
Don't let a dum dum build your engine, cut corners, or be a cheap ***.

Deetz

I think the best answer to the OP's question is....what ever the best deal you can find is!

I bought a 00 model jdm B18C R with a spun rod bearing for $800. Bought a new/used crank and extra rod for $250. Pretty cheap if you ask me. It pays to shop around for a deal

Cripton805

x2

He is going to be building it, so the cams / springs / valves / pistons, etc. will likely be replaced. Why get an ITR if he's going to replace the parts that make an ITR engine an "ITR"

lol

LovinmyTypeR

much appreciated to all I've read every post! my real goal is to have high compression rev safely to 10k and to be somewhere in the 250 HP range... Possible right?

also thanks for the back up Cripton805 respect!

kingofbattle909

iTrader: (6)

i vote buillt gsr w/ gsr trans w/ b16 1st n 2nd.

doesnt the gsr have lighter crankshaft?

PreyStayShun

HAHAH...lets get some facts straight here champ.

I was the one that said B20v, and your high right now. I did agree w/racebum as far as longevity is concerned, but B20s can be easily reliable and over 300+ people in the b20 stock bottom end thread in the NA forum will also attest. 100k reliable??? Most likely not. However, have you had your current b motor for 100k miles? I didn't think so.

Next time before you flame you should do your research, I know several people personally w/successful b20's putting down 220+ all day long...

Everyone who knows absolutely anything about Honda's know its all about the tune, the problem is all these idiots that feel like they need to squeeze every inch of hp out of b20's for some reason...and think its okay to rev them to 9800 rpm with every shift. I've seen people request these bad ideas of their tuners...at the end of the day I feel its important to let you know B20's just get a bad rep because they're cheap. So people abuse them.

So with that being said please let me know why I should delete my account exactly??? I'm calling you out so lets here your knowledgeable wisdom yoda.

If you can convince me b20v is a bad idea I'll delete my account and send you a thank you card.

vtecdc4

lol why the rage?
first of all to build a reliable b20v you need to put lots of money to get the right parts and to even build it right and not to mention those motors arnt practical. ive had honda motors that i abuse regularly and last me past 220k miles. ive never heard of a b20v lasting over 175k.
and the guys question was gsr or type r, i dno where b20v came into it?
and btw before you start getting all pissed or whatever im saying this in a reasonable calm tone to keep it as an educational disscussion.

PreyStayShun

Wait...so you have heard of a b20v lasting 175k miles? Sounds like a pretty reliable motor to me...

Also, whats not practical about a motor that can be had for $700?? If you read my original post you'd understand where I was coming from. I suggested the OP take this route if he was willing to spend $3500 on a stock ITR. Because admittedly $3500 to blow on a B20v's gonna make you quite a motor, with some quality parts. Easily 100k achievable w/good quality parts at that price. Putting down 250hp. OP wants to know if a gsr/itr motor will get to 250hp, sure it will....but that'll cost mad cash, even if he boosts.

I'm a lover, not a fighter...so there's no rage bud. Had I typed in all capitals etc. then I would assume that would be an e-tone of rage. I've been an active member of HT since 2008 so please forgive me if I question your idiocy of telling me b20v would be a bad idea in any way! Such a bad idea in fact that I should delete my account? HAHA

vtecdc4

lol ya i did jump the gun on the account deleting,
sorry

but as for the b20v i was just throwing a random number out, highest mileage b20v ive seen is 90k(so they claim), im sure that there are some that last longer but keep in mind you need labor(unless work is done by the op)(which would then require time and sweat). gsr or type r would be much more of a solid foundation.
but hey to each his own.

PreyStayShun

Totally agree with you at the end of the day. Its about the OP, and I was unaware he was trying to hit 10k rpm so an itr or gsr is definitely the foundation he'll want...10k rpm is exactly what breaks b20's. This is definitely not the option for him.

None the less its all good, much love and respect for a good debate always. Especially when its professional.

vtecdc4

yep

Cripton805

If you mean HP yes you can hit that, but won't be easy and cheap.
That would be about 215whp.
I would say that's about high 12's maybe if you get a good tuner and you drive pretty damn good. Maybe low 13's.

If you want 250whp, that going to be REALLY expensive.
Just build for Turbo instead if you want that kind of power OR more.

jdmboyef9

Wow lots of B20 flaming...Take some advice from me. I blew up my built stock sleeve B20 so yes they can have issues when you build them for high hp stock sleeves, however, my stock B20B4 with CTR head made more whp than my JDM B18C-R and it was very reliable. Stock to mild build B20 all the way. Full build B18 either LS, GSR, ITR. The ITR crank is also heavier than the GSR but it helps to fight of high rpm vibrations fyi.

Deetz

It's true. the advantages are bitter sweet.

At low rpm, the engine is a little more laggy due the extra weight. The advantage is, that after 7000rpm, the engine runs 30% smoother with the extra counter weight

vrrodri

Project car magazine has an article about a DC2 swap with a K24A8 and they are going to mate it with a K20A2 head. The K24 is cheap but I do not know the costs of mating it with the K20 head plus the motor mounts and other mods needed to drop it in a DC2. Might be an option.

racebum

all this stuff starts getting down to $$$ per hp

normally if your goal is over 200whp it becomes cost effective to install a turbo and give in to forced induction. 200whp isn't super hard to hit NA but above that really can crank up the dollars fast. you start getting into race gas, stroker kits, lots of hours porting, trying various headers etc

wunfstgsr

If you want to build a motor and have the knowledge than build a motor but it will cost money and they usually dont last as long as a untouched oem swap concidering it has low miles.

A ITR swap with trans and ecu would be a much wiser choice! Honda did a hell of a job desighning the type r motor! its a race inspired engine out the box! just open it up with a few simple mods like intake header and ex and the motor will really show you whats up then a reflash or ecu tune would really wake up the motor! i wouldnt deal with any other B series swap! ITR or none!

Then if you got allot of money coming out your butt venture into the K series swaps! 3 times as much $ but theres power and reliability with the K's just not for me! i love my ITR!

racebum

i have NO idea why he's right but he totally is. untouched low mile JDM swaps always seem to outlive "built" motors. i can't even grasp why when the work is done right but i have personally seen it more than a few times.

wunfstgsr

Its true! iv built many b motors myself and have had other engine builders build me motors but they just dont last like a untouched jdm or usdm motor. as long as its low mile and you take care of it they treat you good. Its why on my last project i just got me a brand new oem spec motor and built it from scratch! head block and trans.!
instead of building a custom spec motor.! i have the piece of mind Honda assembled the vt in the head as well as assemble the block!
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...2556604&page=5