exactally how do ls/vtec's screw up
07-05-2003, 01:23 PM
#51
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 1,134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: ( Rob)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rob »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Forged pistons require less cooling then cast pistons because they dissipate heat more evenly and do not get "hot spots" like cast pistons which can cause piston failure.</TD></TR></TABLE>
oh word......are CTRs forged??
Forged pistons require less cooling then cast pistons because they dissipate heat more evenly and do not get "hot spots" like cast pistons which can cause piston failure.</TD></TR></TABLE>
oh word......are CTRs forged??
07-05-2003, 04:42 PM
#53
Re: (granada_sun)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by granada_sun »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
oh word......are CTRs forged??</TD></TR></TABLE>
Cast.
oh word......are CTRs forged??</TD></TR></TABLE>
Cast.
07-05-2003, 07:22 PM
#54
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 1,134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (Eluzion)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eluzion »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Cast.</TD></TR></TABLE>
so they shouldnt be installed without oil squirters installed....?
Cast.</TD></TR></TABLE>
so they shouldnt be installed without oil squirters installed....?
07-06-2003, 04:04 AM
#55
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 1,893
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (granada_sun)
just use Royal Purple or Amsoil and you wont have to worry about, unless youre pushing really high hp or revving well past 8k oil squirters arent really all that useful
and if you are revving that high or pushing that kind of power just spend a little dough and get a C block
and if you are revving that high or pushing that kind of power just spend a little dough and get a C block
07-06-2003, 12:18 PM
#58
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 1,134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (JeremyL)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JeremyL »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well 200+whp on a 1.8L would necessitate revving to if not well past 8500, or boosting it</TD></TR></TABLE>
im not talking about revving past 8500 all the time, im saying having the power there, for say the strip....not necessarily every time im in the car, its a daily driver....but regardless its going to need oil squirters....ok
im not talking about revving past 8500 all the time, im saying having the power there, for say the strip....not necessarily every time im in the car, its a daily driver....but regardless its going to need oil squirters....ok
07-10-2003, 01:47 PM
#63
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lawrenceville, Ga, USA
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
other than the usual bickering over rod/stroke ratios...the actual causes I've seen people list on here are a bent LS rod, stretched LS rodbolts, improper machine work, and spun bearings...it seems to me that most of these engine failures are due to people taking shortcuts and trying to save money by using stock components that aren't meant for this kind of torture (which is something that I've come across now all too many times now)...as for the spun bearing there are a lot of factors that can play into that (i.e. wrong color coded/thickness factory bearings, oil starvation, not upgrading to thicker bearing after having machine work done to the crank, etc.)...also, if you're going to put a bunch of money into building a motor, why not build it right?
What I'd like to know is whether or not anyone out there who has built their's right and what failures have resulted in those engines...by this I mean forged rods and pistons, fully balanced bottom end, ductile iron sleeves, properly upgraded and tuned fuel system (fuel pump, fpr, fuel rail, ecu chip, vafc, etc.), ARP head bolts, upgraded cams (with some research done to make sure it is good for your specific application), dual valvesprings, upgraded retainers, cam gears, block girdle, vtec oil pump, machine work done by reputable shop with experiance and knowledge of Honda B-series motors, proper break in time on the motor, tuned by a performance shop before getting wild with it on the track or on the road and kept up with maintanance (mainly oil changes)...
I say this because it's very easy for something like this to get a bad reputation because of a great deal of people with the mentality where they want to put the engine together cheap and fast instead of taking their time to research what they need to get and have done to make everything work together properly...your engine is only as strong as it's weakest link...I am not debating the rod/stroke ratio thing, I agree that it is a problem which is why I feel that an LSVTEC or CRVTEC is not something to enter into lightly...
What I'd like to know is whether or not anyone out there who has built their's right and what failures have resulted in those engines...by this I mean forged rods and pistons, fully balanced bottom end, ductile iron sleeves, properly upgraded and tuned fuel system (fuel pump, fpr, fuel rail, ecu chip, vafc, etc.), ARP head bolts, upgraded cams (with some research done to make sure it is good for your specific application), dual valvesprings, upgraded retainers, cam gears, block girdle, vtec oil pump, machine work done by reputable shop with experiance and knowledge of Honda B-series motors, proper break in time on the motor, tuned by a performance shop before getting wild with it on the track or on the road and kept up with maintanance (mainly oil changes)...
I say this because it's very easy for something like this to get a bad reputation because of a great deal of people with the mentality where they want to put the engine together cheap and fast instead of taking their time to research what they need to get and have done to make everything work together properly...your engine is only as strong as it's weakest link...I am not debating the rod/stroke ratio thing, I agree that it is a problem which is why I feel that an LSVTEC or CRVTEC is not something to enter into lightly...
07-11-2003, 07:56 AM
#65
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: EJ2 type DX number 511,096
Posts: 1,296
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Re: (RayB)
thanks for the repily ray, i too would be interisted in failures that happen in a fully built ls/vtec..
and granda_sun, take your ******* post whoreing somewhere else!
and granda_sun, take your ******* post whoreing somewhere else!
07-11-2003, 11:30 AM
#66
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 1,893
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (skribblah)
seriously tho with all it takes to build a LS/VTEC right why not just get a GSR block and head...wouldnt that make more sense?
i mean seriously what is the point of building an LS/VTEC? is it just to sound cool saying "hey hey ive got an LS/VTEC under the hood"
i mean seriously what is the point of building an LS/VTEC? is it just to sound cool saying "hey hey ive got an LS/VTEC under the hood"
07-11-2003, 02:10 PM
#68
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lawrenceville, Ga, USA
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (JeremyL)
well, that is one valid way to think about it...however, a properly built LSVTEC has a little more potential than a GSR swap...better torque curve due to slightly longer stroke...plus at least then you know the condition of all the motor's internal parts better than you do with a used engine swap...it's all a matter of preference and what you want and are comfortable doing...there are so many options with our cars as to how they can be built and that's what makes them so great...it's a great thing for someone like me who has grown bored with their B16 in their DA and wants an upgrade...I've already got a head I can use, the B18A1 I'm having reworked costed me $75 so I can afford things like having Golden Eagle resleeve it to 84mm...I think that whatever anyone here decides for themselves, what matters most is how it works for their current situation, desires, and needs...
07-11-2003, 02:55 PM
#69
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (JeremyL)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JeremyL »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">spun rod bearings</TD></TR></TABLE>
What he said + bent rods.
Yet, all these can be prevented simply by taking the time and $$ to balance the bottom end. If the entire rotating assembly is balanced properly, there's no need to shotpeen the LS rods or installing girdles and oil squirters.
Without a properly balanced engine, the stress experienced by the rods increases nearly exponentially above a certain RPM. This is why most people end up with blown motors. The LS rod itself is good for up to 8k. If you want to go anything above that, then Eagle rods and forged pistons should be included in your shopping list.
HTH. And I can tell you that so far no one has blown up a fully built LSVTEC motor yet on G2IC. One of the long time LSVTEC guy has only experienced head lift problem due to the fact that he used B16A head bolts which are too short.
Make sure you get the B18 ones from ARP...
What he said + bent rods.
Yet, all these can be prevented simply by taking the time and $$ to balance the bottom end. If the entire rotating assembly is balanced properly, there's no need to shotpeen the LS rods or installing girdles and oil squirters.
Without a properly balanced engine, the stress experienced by the rods increases nearly exponentially above a certain RPM. This is why most people end up with blown motors. The LS rod itself is good for up to 8k. If you want to go anything above that, then Eagle rods and forged pistons should be included in your shopping list.
HTH. And I can tell you that so far no one has blown up a fully built LSVTEC motor yet on G2IC. One of the long time LSVTEC guy has only experienced head lift problem due to the fact that he used B16A head bolts which are too short.
Make sure you get the B18 ones from ARP...
07-11-2003, 03:28 PM
#70
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lawrenceville, Ga, USA
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (startroops)
You are right...balancing is very, very important, maybe the most important thing you can do...but taking extra precaution never hurts...I hope Neil can get the forums on G2IC back up soon...(I know I'm getting off topic)?
07-11-2003, 05:20 PM
#71
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (startroops)
so basically ls/vtec is 
in most of the cases, but how would u rate a fully built ls/vtec from Import Builders? since IB claims their motors are as reliable as oem manufactured, are their built ls/vtec like that too? anybody??
in most of the cases, but how would u rate a fully built ls/vtec from Import Builders? since IB claims their motors are as reliable as oem manufactured, are their built ls/vtec like that too? anybody??
07-11-2003, 09:48 PM
#72
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 1,134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (Gin 'n Juice)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Gin 'n Juice »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so basically ls/vtec is in most of the cases, but how would u rate a fully built ls/vtec from Import Builders? since IB claims their motors are as reliable as oem manufactured, are their built ls/vtec like that too? anybody??</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, not really, the only reason ls/vtecs break is because they arent put together correctly and with the right parts to handle the type of performance some drivers want....ie "man, ls/vtec sucks because id redline through every gear...so what if it was on stock ls/block with 70 shot of nitrous??"
If you've read anything at all throughout the board about ls/vtec set ups, since its been covered oh a thousand times, youll see a few people who took the time to do have their engines built with parts that do withstand the high rpm loads, and are still running strong.
LS/VTEC's are like model cars kind of....if you hurry to put them together, just for the sake of saying, "hey, look what i've got!!" then chances are it will break, run like ****, and you'll be left with junk parts and looking for a whole new popular item to jump on with a bad taste in your mouth.
BUT, built correctly, ls/vtec motors have the potential for a lot of power. Check out importbuilders dyno sheets at importreview.com......there are several ls/vtecs that push over 200hp at the wheels....naturally aspirated....its all about taking the time to do the research on them, then having it done correctly.
All in all, a little appreciation for the motor that "honda never built", it stands for what imports are all about really....taking your own ideas, your own time, etc etc, and turning it into reality....going fast is just a bonus....
ok im done, peace, skribblah i tried not to ***** dawg
in most of the cases, but how would u rate a fully built ls/vtec from Import Builders? since IB claims their motors are as reliable as oem manufactured, are their built ls/vtec like that too? anybody??</TD></TR></TABLE>No, not really, the only reason ls/vtecs break is because they arent put together correctly and with the right parts to handle the type of performance some drivers want....ie "man, ls/vtec sucks because id redline through every gear...so what if it was on stock ls/block with 70 shot of nitrous??"
If you've read anything at all throughout the board about ls/vtec set ups, since its been covered oh a thousand times, youll see a few people who took the time to do have their engines built with parts that do withstand the high rpm loads, and are still running strong.
LS/VTEC's are like model cars kind of....if you hurry to put them together, just for the sake of saying, "hey, look what i've got!!" then chances are it will break, run like ****, and you'll be left with junk parts and looking for a whole new popular item to jump on with a bad taste in your mouth.
BUT, built correctly, ls/vtec motors have the potential for a lot of power. Check out importbuilders dyno sheets at importreview.com......there are several ls/vtecs that push over 200hp at the wheels....naturally aspirated....its all about taking the time to do the research on them, then having it done correctly.
All in all, a little appreciation for the motor that "honda never built", it stands for what imports are all about really....taking your own ideas, your own time, etc etc, and turning it into reality....going fast is just a bonus....
ok im done, peace, skribblah i tried not to ***** dawg
07-12-2003, 12:00 PM
#73
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: two up, two down. \//\
Posts: 1,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (granada_sun)
I just finished my ls/vtec. So far the only thing i can say has happened is: the set screw that holds the rotor to the stator backed itself out and fried the dizzy. Other than that i have to say i am really happy with the performance and reliability of the motor. The only advice i have to give is:rebuild it first. Don't use any old parts. Use adr headbolts, gsr oil pump, high compression pistons, gsr head gasket, and don't rev too high. That's what kills everyone. People think that since the motor is now vtec it can rev higher. It's not true.
07-13-2003, 03:16 AM
#74
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Behind The Camera,, FL, USA
Posts: 2,692
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Re: (lilgreenhonda)
the nice thing about LS/VTEC is that sooOOO many people like RayB said are shortcut artists more than they are motor builders. I mean... shoot... B18a1 for
75 bucks? holy *****... if there arent a MILLION of them in salvage yards as it is...
you could buy 3... go through a QC process and determine which block will be better for high HP... take your time and do it right... find a crank with really close tolerances all the way across... get all the goodies, sleeve... 84mm bore... crank work, etc... wow. just musing...
75 bucks? holy *****... if there arent a MILLION of them in salvage yards as it is...
you could buy 3... go through a QC process and determine which block will be better for high HP... take your time and do it right... find a crank with really close tolerances all the way across... get all the goodies, sleeve... 84mm bore... crank work, etc... wow. just musing...
07-13-2003, 07:49 AM
#75
Re: (granada_sun)
lsvtec is reliable, if built correctly with ARP bolts and studs and the vtec oil and water pumps, balenceing and proper machine work is also equally important.
i realize that 5400 miles is not alot, but i havent had one single problem with mine, i built it, it runs great, and i am in love with it.
i will vouch for ls vtec any day. and that comment about how lsvtec is wrong because honda never made it that way...really sit down and think about that...honda never made a turbo b18c in a 1992 CX (just an example), so if honda never did it, why should we?? thats so dumb.
ls vtec is good
-sander
i realize that 5400 miles is not alot, but i havent had one single problem with mine, i built it, it runs great, and i am in love with it.
i will vouch for ls vtec any day. and that comment about how lsvtec is wrong because honda never made it that way...really sit down and think about that...honda never made a turbo b18c in a 1992 CX (just an example), so if honda never did it, why should we?? thats so dumb.
ls vtec is good
-sander