BauleyCivic

UPDATE on 2nd Page

Well I picked myself up a set of VX wheels, thanks to Troy (Dwnthehatch). Troy is a hella cool dude, and a great seller. He offered me a great deal on the wheels, so this afternoon my roommate and I met up with him to just buy the wheels, but ended up talkin for 45 minutes and then heading back to his house and checking out all his cool **** for a few hours. Had a great time... On Friday I will be trading two of them plus cash for a D16Y8 tranny Anyways....here are some pics:









Now for the tech. The reason I bought these wheels was for drag racing. The first reason is because the VX rims are the lightest wheels available from Honda, weighing in at only 9 lbs a piece (Lighter wheels = less rotational mass, more power to the ground). FYI 14" HX wheels weigh 11.75 lbs a piece and 14" Steelies weigh a WHOPPING 18 lbs a piece! The second reason I chose them was the selection of tires available for the wheels. If I was an autocrosser/track wh0re I could throw these bad boys on:


Yokohama Advan A032R in 175/60/13
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...1=yes

But, i'm not a road racer and I can't afford slicks for the drag strip so i'm gonna be running these guys:


Sumitomo HTR 200 in 175/50/13
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...1=yes

Only $39 a pop

Now, you're probably saying to yourself by now "Dustin, what is the point of all of this. You get thin-*** VX wheels and all season tires for drag racing?" There IS a method to my madness. If you noticed the tire I am going to be running is 175/50/13...these tires have a total diameter of 20". The diameter of the stock tires (175/70/13) is 22.6". By reducing the diameter of the tires I am making my gear ratios shorter. How? Think about it this way...getting a larger final drive shortens gear ratios and improves acceleration...well, using smaller tires has the same effect as a larger final drive...its just at the other end of the axle. Take a look at this chart I created. It contains the possible modification to my car and the respective shift points (Transmission is S20 93 DX, 4.058 final drive, 7200 RPM redline):

Shift Points:

Stock:
37 - 68 - 102 - 132

20" Tires:
32 - 60 - 90 - 115

4.7 Final Drive:
32 - 59 - 88 - 114

Don't believe me?
Calculate it here: http://www.f-body.org/gears/

My gears:
1st-----3.250
2nd-----1.762
3rd-----1.172
4th-----0.909
5th-----0.702
Final Drive---4.058

As you can see, by simply using 175/50/13 tires in the front I am essentially making my gearing identical to if I had a 4.7 final drive in there...for about a third of the cost. The downfall to using 20" 175/50/13 tires is that the car will sit 1.3" lower than stock (E.G. if one has a lip it could scrape on a bump), and your speedo will be a good bit off as well...which is the exact reason that these wheels will be used at the drag strip only for me. Hope you enjoyed the writeup


Modified by BauleyCivic at 12:37 PM 10/16/2003

Tad

good writeup and good thinking BUT

I HIGHLY suggest you get some slicks,
you'll loose more time due to spinning tires than you will gain from the tiny diameter.

cant you find some slicks in 175/50/13,
or at the VERY LEAST some tires that arent some allseason last forever soccermom brand rubbers?

what about azenis? those are supercheap, and have very good grip, although better for cornering than they are for launching, they'll still be far far above those sumi's

Lysawy

Nice write up im thinking of the same thing here ... i have 14" alloy on a 195/65/14 the wheels feel heavy around 18lbs a piece so with the tires they will be heavier...

mycivicstoo(s)low

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">good writeup and good thinking BUT

I HIGHLY suggest you get some slicks,
you'll loose more time due to spinning tires than you will gain from the tiny diameter.

cant you find some slicks in 175/50/13,
or at the VERY LEAST some tires that arent some allseason last forever soccermom brand rubbers?

what about azenis? those are supercheap, and have very good grip, although better for cornering than they are for launching, they'll still be far far above those sumi's</TD></TR></TABLE>Good tech, but Tad's got a point. Let us know how it works out. Ha, soccer mom tires.

BauleyCivic

Unfortunately the Sumi's are the only tire I could find that had a 20" diameter. As I stated earlier, I could throw some Yokohama Advan A032R's on or these Kumho Ecsta V700s:



However, their sizes are both 175/60/13...making the tire 21.2" in diameter

Not to mention, the idea is budget here...and the Kumho's and Yokohamas are $89 and $103 respectively, whereas the Sumi's are $39 a piece.

smnowell

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">good writeup and good thinking BUT

I HIGHLY suggest you get some slicks,
you'll loose more time due to spinning tires than you will gain from the tiny diameter.

cant you find some slicks in 175/50/13,
or at the VERY LEAST some tires that arent some allseason last forever soccermom brand rubbers?

what about azenis? those are supercheap, and have very good grip, although better for cornering than they are for launching, they'll still be far far above those sumi's</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good luck finding slicks for a 13x5" rim. The best tire I could find for those so far are those ADVAN A032R's, but those are road racing tires, not drag racing tires. I haven't been able to even find a drag radial for 13" rims. I was going to buy the other two along with Dustin (I am his roommate), but I couldn't find **** for tires, so I gave up on that idea.

SOHCwarrior

THe best investment i have ever made was in slicks, dropped my 60 ft .4 alone, then you still have better gearing, you can usually find slightly used 20x8x14 slicks for 200, which it sounds like is less that you are investing in the vx's
then throw the skinniest tires on the vx's and put them in the back and knock another .1 off your e.t.
probably anyone will tell you one of their best investments was in slicks .4 for $200-300 is a pretty good cost to benifits ratio

99blackcivicSi

that is a horribly skinny tire you are probly gonna spin your *** off. How about his go to a speed shop and buy some VHT then put a couple of coats on those tires with the rims on them just on the tread. Then put them on when you get to the track don't drive on the street with them cuz you will pick up EVERYTHING and it will sling in your fenderwells and that is really really annoying.

BauleyCivic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 99blackcivicSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that is a horribly skinny tire you are probly gonna spin your *** off. How about his go to a speed shop and buy some VHT then put a couple of coats on those tires with the rims on them just on the tread. </TD></TR></TABLE>

VHT? Enlighten me...

99blackcivicSi

Track Bite

BMac86

Nice Dustin, can't wait to seem them at the track!

shorti

go to a re-tread plant and see if they can slap a blank tread on the tire
instant slicks......they might be kinda heavy tho

SergEK

Gearing is one advantage young grass hopper but you will find it does not make up for a weak 60' time

Now grab some slicks on that wheel and youll be in for a nice treat.....gearing and traction

BauleyCivic

I don't think anyones really getting my point. What part of "I can't afford slicks" don't you understand? The point is that these wheels are ultra light, and when you put 20" tires on they shorten your gear ratios tremendously. Now, the problem with them is that they lower your car by a lot and put your speedo off...and the sumi's aren't all seasons, they are "High Performance Summer." So...with this information, I concluded that these wheels will be good for track use...or for street use if i'm not going to be driving over any huge bumps. This thread isnt for "hey i'm a drag racer so I purposefully went out and bought these things." I'm not an idiot, if they were specifically for that purpose I would get slicks. This thread is about "Hey these wheels are light and cheap and shorten my ratios a lot and improve my acceleration dramatically. However, they make my car too low, so i'll run em at the track."

Sheesh

goforbroke

Yes I have the vx's on my hatch and with the J1 trans and these little baby rims the gearing is real short. Just make sure you mount some decent tires on them. I have some crappy kumho on mine now and they spin all over the place. I understand lighter rims equal less rotational drag but. You have to think of the compromise of getting traction more traction from a wider tire. I'm not really big on drag racing I mostly autox. Believe me its not fun trying to autox on these little 13x5 rims unless you try to shoe horn on some hoosiers or victoracers, which I don't think is possible.

SergEK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BauleyCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't think anyones really getting my point. What part of "I can't afford slicks" don't you understand? The point is that these wheels are ultra light, and when you put 20" tires on they shorten your gear ratios tremendously. Now, the problem with them is that they lower your car by a lot and put your speedo off...and the sumi's aren't all seasons, they are "High Performance Summer." So...with this information, I concluded that these wheels will be good for track use...or for street use if i'm not going to be driving over any huge bumps. This thread isnt for "hey i'm a drag racer so I purposefully went out and bought these things." I'm not an idiot, if they were specifically for that purpose I would get slicks. This thread is about "Hey these wheels are light and cheap and shorten my ratios a lot and improve my acceleration dramatically. However, they make my car too low, so i'll run em at the track."

Sheesh </TD></TR></TABLE>

Suspension travel oWnS jOo

Man up and buy some real tires and wheels...or dont....doesnt look like the WIN is your goal anyway Have a craptastic time with the 13's I am sure they are all you need

Hint: If you cant afford to race......try waiting and saving.....it will magically allow yout to buy the good ****....

Eee Pee

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by goforbroke &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Believe me its not fun trying to autox on these little 13x5 rims unless you try to shoe horn on some hoosiers or victoracers, which I don't think is possible.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hoosier slicks are possible.
They have a cantilevered sidewall, which allows a 8 inch wide tire to fit.
The sidewalls looks like (_), compared to [_] of a normal tire.

Anyways, Bauley, I too have some VX wheels, a D16z6 motor and Ex tranny.
When I called TireRack, the phone guy wouldn't sell them to me because my car's weight exceeded the tires load capacity.
Little did he know, my car is gutted and weighs 1850 pounds.
But the pooint is, with your car, you may need to take this into consideration.
And the lesson here is, try shopping online to get your tires.

I think I may be getting mine ordered tonight.
At the Autocross I run a 20 inch tall slick, and the car just flies.

Jonathan_ED3

http://www.blackrobotics.com will fix your speedo readings with the Yellow Box...

You can put whatever size wheels/tires on and easily adjust your speedo to compensate.

goforbroke

So I take that the car feels real mushy considering you are losing sidewall stiffness. How does your initial turn in response feel? With that narrow of a tire.

Eee Pee

I assume you are asking me?

The tire could be considered a runflat the sidewalls are so stiff.

The cantilevered side wall tire is the only tire of choice of Production race cars.
These are a serious road race tire.
This picture is from the Hoosier site, it's not the greatest, but should help you visualize.

Eh, maybe...

gsrvx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHCwarrior &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">THe best investment i have ever made was in slicks, dropped my 60 ft .4 alone, then you still have better gearing, you can usually find slightly used 20x8x14 slicks for 200, which it sounds like is less that you are investing in the vx's
then throw the skinniest tires on the vx's and put them in the back and knock another .1 off your e.t.
probably anyone will tell you one of their best investments was in slicks .4 for $200-300 is a pretty good cost to benifits ratio</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea haha. I bought those slicks mounted on steelies for $100 off my buddy. Best damn investment for drag racing I made.

I used to have my stock VX wheels. EXTREMELY light. I remember weighing them with tires...and weighing my 15inch (12lbs) wheels w/ Azenis...and the vx combo would save me over 50lbs.

Racing on em was definitely a tad harder...but still possible. Getting 2.2 60 footers on the bald stock 13'' tires.

Rod

92CIVICCX

good write up .... Now if they only made somme 13 ich azenies.. i just got aset of vx wheels also.. hopefully i can find good tire that i can use for autocross next year that idont have to pay an arm and a leg for...

goforbroke

I got you know Eee Pee. I never seen those particular hoosiers before.

ImportHatch

let us know how it goes.


Yager-

intenseEK

ohhhh what would i do to get a set of these damn wheels