Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

<FONT COLOR="red"> Note:
This thread is about wiring EGR, but mainly a how to wiring guide to a VX complete swap with engine harness into a 92-95 civic lx/dx chassie. Thanks to the help of Matt aka Relic1 for helping me out. </FONT>



Modified by Charlie Moua at 6:32 PM 3/15/2006

schardbody

why the hell do you want to put a VX into your car, the D16z6 swap is the same swap.

SiMateoAko

Hey Charlie... long time no talk.

Get the EGR out of a 89-91 CRX HF. It's the same thing.

The only wiring difference is the addition of the fifth wire for the o2 sensor and the EGR.

I'm almost positive that is the only difference.

schardbody

he will also have to wire in the vtec to the ecu correct.

SiMateoAko

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schardbody &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">he will also have to wire in the vtec to the ecu correct.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good point. Forgot about that. Wire up the VTEC, EGR, and the o2 sensor and you should be good to go. I'd personally try to find a VX harness and just go from there (assuming you can find one cheap).

schardbody

i would go with an EX/SI harness, that would get him away from the O2 wiring from 5 to 4 wire. pretty much 100% plug and play then.

Hondaciv95VX

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schardbody &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i would go with an EX/SI harness, that would get him away from the O2 wiring from 5 to 4 wire. pretty much 100% plug and play then.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats what I was thinking also.

EE_Chris

*Not a 5th gen guy*

If he's looking for an EGR valve, that tells me he's also going to run the stock Vx ECU, which also means he's wanting to run the stock 5-wire O2 sensor. Maybe I'm wrong.

Would you still suggest the Ex/Si harness over the Vx, if the above is the case?

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

<FONT COLOR="green"> Wow first of all thanks for all the helpful post fells.
Let me give you more info on what I'm doing & WHY.

I bought a 1995 civic lx in mint condition for $500 with blown block.
I got a $50 complete VX swap with ECU, TRANNY and vx engine harness from a local honda-tech buddy for $50. The vx motor has exactly 120,800 miles on her. Super healthy and drivin by old lady up in Norther Minnesota. Since I drive about 80-100miles a day I just wanted something that got great MPG. And I believe that the motor should last me another 2-3yrs.

Ok I have already swapped in the VX motor/TRANNY with vx engine harness into my LX chassie.
All mounts, axles, suspension exhaust, coolant hoses have been connected. </FONT>

<FONT COLOR="blue">
All sensors from the VX harness has been pluged up properly.
<FONT SIZE="3"> Note that the vx harness has 4 BIG plugs at the shock tower where *** the LX only has 3 plugs </FONT>


Q: I tried to plug up my VX 5 wire o2 sensor to the VX harness "02" plug and it did not seem to work. BUT when I pluged the end of a 4wire o2 sensor it fit right in. ?
How could that be?
I know it's a VX harness cause it was never taken off the motor.
I know it's a VX harness cause of the 4 plugs on the upper shock tower
but why would this harness not accept the OEM o2 plug of a 5wire?


Q: how do I wire up vtec directly into my ECU pin?
Diagrams would be very very helpful cause I'm not really good at wiring.


Q: When i get the vx egr system..... does it have wiring plugs to it or just vacume ports?
If wiring how do i wire it up?

</FONT>

Thanks a million fellas

schardbody

postjacker. no i didnt realize it wasnt a 5th gen, since thats the case i wouldnt recommend the ex/si harness.

Relic1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Charlie Moua &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Q: I tried to plug up my VX 5 wire o2 sensor to the VX harness "02" plug and it did not seem to work. BUT when I pluged the end of a 4wire o2 sensor it fit right in. ?
How could that be?
I know it's a VX harness cause it was never taken off the motor.
I know it's a VX harness cause of the 4 plugs on the upper shock tower
but why would this harness not accept the OEM o2 plug of a 5wire?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Because it's probably a Cali-spec VX, they came with a 4 wire O2 sensor.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Q: how do I wire up vtec directly into my ECU pin?
Diagrams would be very very helpful cause I'm not really good at wiring.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
exactly like mentioned in the sticky at the top of the forum list.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Q: When i get the vx egr system..... does it have wiring plugs to it or just vacume ports?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
one plug (two wires) and two vacuum hoses to the control unit on the firewall.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If wiring how do i wire it up?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
run said wires to A11-Solinoid control(orange/blue) and D12-EGR lift sensor input(white/black). ground is also needed to the thermostat housing.

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Relic1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Because it's probably a Cali-spec VX, they came with a 4 wire O2 sensor.

exactly like mentioned in the sticky at the top of the forum list.

one plug (two wires) and two vacuum hoses to the control unit on the firewall.

run said wires to A11-Solinoid control(orange/blue) and D12-EGR lift sensor input(white/black). ground is also needed to the thermostat housing.</TD></TR></TABLE>


<FONT COLOR="blue yellow"> WOwZer!
Great info bro.


BTW why did CA eg VX only come with 4wire o2?
So basically if that is the case I could just use any obd1 4wire o2 sensor and not have to worry about adding wires (correct?)

I think that's all the info i was looking for.
I'll post more if I run into any issues.

Charlie Neng Moua
</FONT>


Modified by Charlie Moua at 9:42 AM 2/3/2006

Relic1

ok I sort of lied to you, it takes a couple power wires to get it to work as well.

the EGR Solenoid valve will have two wires at the plug;
black/yellow runs to RUN/START power from the under-dash fuse box.
red/blue runs to A11 of the ECU.

the EGR lift sensor needs three wires.
white/black runs to D12 of the ECU
yellow/white runs to D20 of the ECU (reference power)
light green/white runs to D22 of the ECU (sensor ground)

vacuum lines...
http://www.b18c5eg.com/images/VX_EGRcontrol.jpg
10 runs to the rear of the intake manifold to the engine side of the throttle body
16 runs to the EGR valve

note another VX trait... the upshift indicator can be wired from D18 on the ECU to a bulb or 12V LED, with the other side connected to the under-dash fuse box with RUN/START power. All though the cali-VX may not have one of those either....


BTW, I have no idea why the cali-VX came with a four wire O2. I learned that about a week ago myself.
IMO the five wire setup will get you a lot better mpg than a four wire.

SiMateoAko

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Relic1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok I sort of lied to you, it takes a couple power wires to get it to work as well.

the EGR Solenoid valve will have two wires at the plug;
black/yellow runs to RUN/START power from the under-dash fuse box.
red/blue runs to A11 of the ECU.

the EGR lift sensor needs three wires.
white/black runs to D12 of the ECU
yellow/white runs to D20 of the ECU (reference power)
light green/white runs to D22 of the ECU (sensor ground)

vacuum lines...
http://www.b18c5eg.com/images/VX_EGRcontrol.jpg
10 runs to the rear of the intake manifold to the engine side of the throttle body
16 runs to the EGR valve

note another VX trait... the upshift indicator can be wired from D18 on the ECU to a bulb or 12V LED, with the other side connected to the under-dash fuse box with RUN/START power. All though the cali-VX may not have one of those either....


BTW, I have no idea why the cali-VX came with a four wire O2. I learned that about a week ago myself.
IMO the five wire setup will get you a lot better mpg than a four wire.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Excellent Relic. Does this mean that d18 is just a switched ground?

Also, I can assume the cali-vx didn't have a 5 wire o2 because the unique difference with the cali-vx is that it doesn't have a lean burn mode. Perhaps the lean burn makes it emit a higher level of some pollutant and was therefore eliminated from the design. All theory, of course.

Does the VX have a lean burn indicator light as well? That would be pretty sweet.

SiMateoAko

the space ship thing (by #25) is the EGR valve. The black box on the firewall is the "EGR control box."

"Switched ground" just means that the ECU will ground a power source, completing the circuit. We're used to thinking of a light working in the opposite way. When the ECU wants it on, it will send the current to the light. IN that case the ground is already there and the circuit is already complete. The addition of power makes the light light up.

WIth a switched ground the light already has power, but since it isn't a complete circuit (no ground) it won't light up. the switched ground will ground the wire and then complete the circuit.

Relic1

yes D18 is low side drive, basically it switches the output to ground when it wants the light to be on. BUT it's not a very large output so a smaller bulb (194 max) is a must or you will have smoke comming out of the ECU.
Sorry for not clarifying that earlier, I get used to talking to people who design things like this for a living.

unfortunately there is no lean burn indicator, but you can tell when you exit the mode, there is a delay. Most describe it as a bogging sensation. It's not bad when you get used to it, but at first it made me nervous, not something a normal car without something wrong with it.
BTW Matt, how goes the cars?

Charlie:
this part of the manual should help with the vacuum hoses.
http://www.b18c5eg.com/images/VX_vacuum.jpg

BTW, I HIGHLY recommend picking up the Helm manual. You're no noob here, you know how good it is.

SiMateoAko

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Relic1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
BTW Matt, how goes the cars?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Cars are good. After all of the hassle to get thepinouts for the p07, I just decided to buy a conversion harness from rywire. They've made this harness before and now I won't have to troubleshoot any potential problems in the future. besides, I don't have the time to make the harness now adays. I'm stretched pretty thin.

I'll be swapping the engine in sometime this spring... hopefully in March. I really need to finish my basement first though, which was my plan all along. Maybe I'll go spend an hour working on that right now.

Just to clarify, there are different bulb sizes? Will I be safe using a LED from a donor car's intrument cluster for my shift light? 12v power source it all it needs?

Relic1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiMateoAko &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Cars are good. After all of the hassle to get thepinouts for the p07, I just decided to buy a conversion harness from rywire. They've made this harness before and now I won't have to troubleshoot any potential problems in the future. besides, I don't have the time to make the harness now adays. I'm stretched pretty thin.

I'll be swapping the engine in sometime this spring... hopefully in March. I really need to finish my basement first though, which was my plan all along. Maybe I'll go spend an hour working on that right now.

Just to clarify, there are different bulb sizes? Will I be safe using a LED from a donor car's intrument cluster for my shift light? 12v power source it all it needs?</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you have some spare time why not run an ohm meter around the harness and make sure what I came up with you is right.
I wish I had the room to do all that you're doing. Hopefully some day soon.

there are hundreds of different bulb sizes, but an LED requires a fraction of the power that a bulb takes so you will be fine.

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

<FONT SIZE="3"> ..... ok for sure I got the vtec wiring down.
moving on to the EGR with 2 questions </FONT>

<FONT SIZE="15"> 1) </FONT>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Relic1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> run said wires to A11-Solinoid control(orange/blue) and D12-EGR lift sensor input(white/black). ground is also needed to the thermostat housing.

the EGR Solenoid valve will have two wires at the plug;
black/yellow runs to RUN/START power from the under-dash fuse box.
red/blue runs to A11 of the ECU.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

http://www.we-todd-did-racing....x.jpg

<FONT COLOR="pink yellow">I'm kind of mixed up here cause you said the "EGR solenoid" valve RED/blue goes to A11, then you said ORANGE/blue run to A11.

Then you said the "EGR lift sensor" white/black goes to D12, another time you said black/yellow runs to RUN/START power from the under-dash fuse box.
which one is it? </FONT>

ok for that gray plug of the EGR control box. My LX chassie does not have that wiring. The wire colors of that plug are:
red
black/yellow
I found a plug that would work. I'll use that plug but where does those to wires go?
Does the "EGR solenoid" still go to A11 & EGR lift sensor" still toD12 or underdash fuse box?
IF so which color to where since the colors stated are different from your quote.


<FONT SIZE="15"> 2) </FONT>
http://www.hondaautomotivepart...4.gif

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Relic1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> the EGR lift sensor needs three wires.
white/black runs to D12 of the ECU
yellow/white runs to D20 of the ECU (reference power)
light green/white runs to D22 of the ECU (sensor ground)
</TD></TR></TABLE>

<FONT COLOR="orange"> the EGR plug (above #25)
I have VX motor & VX engine harness so the they plug up.
do I need to do anything with those 3 wires
..... I'm guessing they already lead to the shock tower plugs & that the LX already has it rounted to the ECU....... CORRECT?
...............A) or do they lead to that extra 4th shock tower plug?
...............B) do I need to cut them and run directly to VX ecu pin solts?
</FONT>


Thanks for all the help guys. I've always been a EF guy for the past 4-5 yrs... so I have to re-learn all this new stuff.

Charlie Neng Moua
PS..... can i just call you bro... I know you could help me out a lot hehe



Modified by Charlie Moua at 3:02 AM 2/4/2006

Relic1

ok now I'm getting confused. I apologize, some times I babble and give too much info which tends to confuse people. Including me sometimes.

(side note)
I was doing some cleaning on my site this morning and found this... it may help you. I put it together a while back to help someone do a DX-VX swap. Which is basically the same as what you're doing. http://www.b18c5eg.com/egd15z1_dx.pdf
the plug IDs http://www.b18c5eg.com/itr_vx_wiring.html
(ignore the Teg references)

That little chart is how I kept track of what needed to be done with my swap when I did it, but I discovered a while ago that if you're not electrically inclined it's difficult to follow. So in case that confuses the heck out of you, please ignore it.

1) you're right I did say orange/blue then red/blue for the same wire. I did this because it is actually the same wire depending on where you look at it. At the sensor it's red/blue and on the other side of the first connector it becomes orange/blue. I love it when honda does that.

In the picture it looks like the black/yellow wire is the closest spot and the red wire is in the closer to the firewall spot.
Since you have the VX engine harness, run the black/yellow wire to the largest driver's side shock tower plug, look for the black/yellow wire and splice it into it. It's the same as running it to the under-dash location only you don't have the thread it through the firewall.

the red wire connects to A11 at the ECU.

2) since you have the VX engine harness the wires run to the shock tower all ready, but they are in that fourth plug, so you need to add the wires from the shock tower to the ECU.

I'm curious... which wires are in the fourth plug? I know which wires are there for the 49-state emissions version but not the cali-spec one.

My guess is it's only a two wires. yellow/white and white/black for the EGR valve lift sensor (the space ship)
the yellow/white wire runs to D20 at the ECU
the white/black wire runs to D12 at the ECU
note: (the additional wire for the EGR valve lift sensor runs through the VX harness to the correct spot all ready)

If you have additional wires in that plug, I'll need the wires colors at the O2 and the ones at the fourth plug. I should be able to piece together how the four wire O2 is ran by that.

my name's Matt also.

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Relic1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
In the picture it looks like the black/yellow wire is the closest spot and the red wire is in the closer to the firewall spot.
Since you have the VX engine harness, run the black/yellow wire to the largest driver's side shock tower plug, look for the black/yellow wire and splice it into it. It's the same as running it to the under-dash location only you don't have the thread it through the firewall.
</TD></TR></TABLE>


<FONT COLOR="purple">
there are tons of black/yellow wires on the driver side shock tower.
1) Should I tap it to the thickest WIRE or anyone(blk/yel) on the largest plug
2) does it matter if I tap the blk/yel wire from male or female side?
</FONT>


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Relic1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> since you have the VX engine harness the wires run to the shock tower all ready, but they are in that fourth plug, so you need to add the wires from the shock tower to the ECU.

I'm curious... which wires are in the fourth plug? I know which wires are there for the 49-state emissions version but not the cali-spec one.
</TD></TR></TABLE>


<FONT COLOR="green gray"> The wires from the EGR (space ship) colors are:
white/black runs to D12 of the ECU
yellow/white runs to D20 of the ECU (reference power)
light green/white runs to D22 of the ECU (sensor ground).... but as you said I don't need to do anything cause it's already wired into the vx harness and LX chassie harness right?

Now if you say that they ALREADY lead to the 4th plug on the passenger side shock tower. There are 3 wires leading out to the 4th plug:
white
white/black
yellow white
............................. in that case which of my wires goes where?
.............................did honda change the colors on me again.... ?


****** Just and FYI for myself and other readers... what are the wire colors for the 4th pug 49-state?
</FONT>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Relic1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If you have additional wires in that plug, I'll need the wires colors at the O2 and the ones at the fourth plug. I should be able to piece together how the four wire O2 is ran by that.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

<FONT COLOR="yellow blue">
No I only have those 3 wires listed above in that 4th plug.
But just in case it might help my o2 sensor plugs.
from engine harness plug:
green/white
yellow/white
white
orange/blue
FROM o2 sensor side
black
black
green
white
</FONT>

dood I'm going to send you so freaken money just for helping me out man ..
either you must have some decent time or must be really good at this stuff to be able to referrance it right off the top of your head by simply knowing where to find the info bro.

Charlie Neng Moua



Modified by Charlie Moua at 2:04 PM 2/4/2006

Relic1

there are a ton of yellow/black, but only one black/yellow from what I can tell.
I'd tap into the chassis harness side, simply in case you have to remove the engine/engine harnes for some reason in the future.

the light green/white wire runs to a connection point in the engine harness which all ready runs to D22. So you don't have to do anything at all for this connection.

---

you have three wires in the fourth plug, the white wire has to be the O2 signal. It should be connected to the white wire on the 10pin passenger's side plug. It should be pin #2 if you can read the little tiny numbers printed on the plug housing.
the other two wires match up with what I stated before.
white/black runs to D12 of the ECU
yellow/white runs to D20 of the ECU (reference power)

------
wires on 49-state version VX (VX unique fourth plug - C129)

yellow/white - EGR valve reference voltage (D20)
white/blue - LAF sensor input (D8)
white - heater control (not used - I don't know why it's there either)
white/black - EGR valve lift sensor input (D12)
orange - LAF sensor ground (D16)
orange/blue - LAF sensor input (D14)

NOTE: LAF sensor = 5-wire O2 = NGK L1H1.

----

All the info I've posted is in the Helm manual for the EG. That and my own experience from working with a VX for many years. I sort of pride myself knowing info about this unique beast.

I find it amazing that a car made in '92 can boast better mpg figures than most 'hybrids' made 14 years later... Yet it remains virtually unnoticed.
It also kills me that Honda could design this car/engine with what was available in ’91. All though knowing how car schedules develop and how they worked in the late 80s to early 90’s they had to be working on the designs in late 88 to early 89, possibly earlier.

making that engine breath life again will be thanks enough for me.
-Matt

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

<FONT COLOR="pink green"> <FONT SIZE="3"> THANK you so much Relic1, I belive the car should be up and running in a few mins.
</FONT>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Relic1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> It should be connected to the white wire on the 10pin passenger's side plug. It should be pin #2</TD></TR></TABLE>

<FONT COLOR="green"> How should I go about doing that:
a) simply spicing from one to the other (bridge them) ?
</FONT>


BTW when I run wires into the ECU... is there anything special I need to use so that the wires won't pop out at all?
Or it shouldn't be something I need to worry about since it's well covered up, wires have decent slack, ecu held on tight by cover/bolts.
</FONT>

Charlie Neng Moua

Relic1

I'd pull a pin from an extra connector I have sitting here and put in in the right place so it would plug in like the factory intended. But splicing into it will work too.

extra pins from another ECU plug are what you'd need to connect to the ECU. Either that or soldering a wire directly to the inside of the ECU plug and running it out of the ECU and connecting it up that way.

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Relic1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
extra pins from another ECU plug are what you'd need to connect to the ECU. Either that or soldering a wire directly to the inside of the ECU plug and running it out of the ECU and connecting it up that way.</TD></TR></TABLE>


hum.... i don't know where I'm going to find it.
I'm probably going to soder it up to the ecu..... but I'm not the best at sodering so i could get messey.. hee

<FONT COLOR="purple pink">
Ok I wired up everything, after your last post and links i made a lot of sense.
But.... when I tried to wire up
****yellow/white runs to D20 of the ECU (reference power)****
It seems that the LX ECU plugs there was already a wire in that ECU pin. The color was yellow with silver circles.

what now?
a) take out that yellow/silver circle wire cause I don't need it, & just put in the yellow/white for the EGR.
b) tap into that same wire


</FONT>