Spring Test - BVTEC - Honda-Tech

Master of the Universe · 11-07-2006, 02:20 AM

BVTEC Spring Test

Cliff Notes for the Spring Chart

1. The 0.00 Lift Column is Closed Pressure aka Seat Pressure, pressure when the valve is closed.

2. Look at the 0.500 lift column to see the Open Pressure. OE B16/GSR springs cannot reach this lift so look at the 0.400 lift column for Open Pressure for these springs.

Quick Notes

1. Lift at Coil Bind means the spring is solid at this lift. General rule of thumb for BVTEC is that there should be at least 1.5mm travel over maximum valve lift. This means if you have 12.00mm valve lift then you need at least 13.50mm travel before coil bind.

2. B16 dual spring coil binds at 12.2mm. You cannot safely use this spring with 12mm camshafts without over stressing the spring or binding the spring.

3. Supertech H1002D spring pressure and lift capabilities match all manufacturer specs except for seat pressue. Seat pressure from test is only 60lbs vs. 70lbs as specified by Supertech. It is common to have some variance between spring testers in the lower pressures.

4. ITR springs allow for use of 12mm camshafts but this would be an extreme limit for lift capabilities. The relatively low pressure does not allow for any extended rpm usage without increasing risk of valve float and resulting engine damage from same.

5. B16 Single spring lacks pressure to run any performance camshaft safely.

Springs are tested with RM Retainer and OE spring seat.

From Left to Right: ITR Yellow, RM SL, RM G2, Supertech H1002D

Rimac 500lbs Capacity Spring Tester

Verifying Dial Indicator for Travel Measurement using 1.500" Standard

ITR Spring Ready to Be Tested

Close up of measuring ITR Spring at 1.320"

Preessure of ITR Spring at 1.320"

Test Notes

Modified by Don's Lackey at 6:13 PM 11/8/2006

an2ny888 · 11-07-2006, 02:43 AM

i'm no expert, so does this mean that itr springs can be used with cams that have 13.1 lift? or are there other variables involved?

Master of the Universe · 11-07-2006, 03:06 AM

No. See quick note 1.

salman · 11-07-2006, 04:12 AM

i dont understand it, but ill try to read it in free time

clean rice · 11-07-2006, 05:31 AM

Awesome info Rob, thankyou!

Modified by clean rice at 3:36 AM 1/8/2008

mar778c · 11-07-2006, 05:37 AM

Thank you sir, I will have to act accordingly.

B18C1_POWER · 11-07-2006, 06:49 AM

the supertech h1002d are the same ones as kms? btw great test

b19coupe · 11-07-2006, 06:58 AM

Nice test Rocket

I would love to see the data for other common manufacturers too (Toda, Skunk, Portflow, etc.)

Natural Aspirations · 11-07-2006, 07:12 AM

Thank You, Love to see ANY info out of these guys.

bluedlude · 11-07-2006, 07:21 AM

would you mind doing that test on the GEN1 springs for the H22? i think my girlfreind just got me those for my birthday.

Furyof4 · 11-07-2006, 07:37 AM

Great info

GSRCRXsi · 11-07-2006, 08:13 AM

in response to you 1.5mm rule.

if the ITR binds at 13.1mm, then why wold portflow say you can run their springs to 12.7mm lift? (they use ITR outers with their inners)

and wouldnt you only need 13.5 capable lift for a 12mm valve lift? and not 14.5?

Master of the Universe · 11-07-2006, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salman

i dont understand it, but ill try to read it in free time

Cliff Notes for the Spring Chart.

1. The 0.00 Lift Column is Close Pressure aka Seat Pressure, pressure when the valve is closed.

2. Look at the 0.500 lift column to see the Open Pressure. OE B16/GSR springs cannot reach this lift so look at the 0.400 lift column for these springs.

Master of the Universe · 11-07-2006, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSRCRXsi

in response to you 1.5mm rule.

if the ITR binds at 13.1mm, then why wold portflow say you can run their springs to 12.7mm lift? (they use ITR outers with their inners)

and wouldnt you only need 13.5 capable lift for a 12mm valve lift? and not 14.5?

1. Most cams including "12.7mm" lift cams don't achieve their advertised lift. All the 12.7mm cams I've seen come in at 12.5mm lift or less. And then when you add lash of about 0.007 that takes away another 0.3mm lift. So for a "12.7mm" cam with lash the motor would see about 12.2mm lift. A good quality spring can be ran with as little as 0.7mm clearance from binding but I don't recommend this for maximum longevity in motors where valve train replacement is not on the maintenance schedule.

2. Thanks for the correction. My arithmetic was incorrect. Should be needs 13.5mm total travel before bind for 12mm cam. Title post has been corrected.

Modified by Don's Lackey at 8:00 PM 11/7/2006

Runnerdown · 11-07-2006, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furyof4

Great info

Master of the Universe · 11-07-2006, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b19coupe

Nice test Rocket

I would love to see the data for other common manufacturers too (Toda, Skunk, Portflow, etc.)

I have some other springs like JUN, higher pressure Supertechs, and UGR. When I get in the mood again I'll add these springs to the test.

I don't have the Toda, S2, Ferrera, etc. If people are interested pm me and we can make arrangements for these to be added to the test.

GSRCRXsi · 11-07-2006, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don’s Lackey

1. Most cams including "12.7mm" lift cams don't have achieve the advertised lift. All the 12.7mm cams I've seen come in at 12.5mm lift or less. And then when you add lash of about 0.007 that takes away another 0.3mm lift. So for a "12.7mm" cam with lash the motor would see about 12.2mm lift. A good quality spring can be ran with as little as 0.7mm clearance from binding but I don't recommend this for maximum longevity in motors where valve train replacement is not on the maintenance schedule.

2. Thanks for the correction. My arithmetic was incorrect. Should be needs 13.5mm total travel before bind for 12mm cam. Title post has been corrected.

Modified by Don's Lackey at 6:54 PM 11/7/2006

forgot about lash. so i guess most (or all) advertised lift of a cam is with 0.000 lash?

Runnerdown · 11-07-2006, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don’s Lackey

I have some other springs like JUN, higher pressure Supertechs, and UGR. When I get in the mood again I'll add these springs to the test.

Have you ever tested heavily used springs, and seen any strange or reoccuring results. Just curious what happens over time, heat cycling etc.

98vtec · 11-07-2006, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluedlude

would you mind doing that test on the GEN1 springs for the H22? i think my girlfreind just got me those for my birthday.

98vtec · 11-07-2006, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by an2ny888

i'm no expert, so does this mean that itr springs can be used with cams that have 13.1 lift? or are there other variables involved?

well, its binds at 13.1 so anything under 13.1 wouldnt bind. But say you had a 12.5mm lift cam and your using ITR springs....if you miss shift and overrev, you run the risk of binding. So IMO just because they bind at 13.1mm doesnt mean you could run a 12.9mm lift cam without worry.

Master of the Universe · 11-07-2006, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runnerdown

Have you ever tested heavily used springs, and seen any strange or reoccuring results. Just curious what happens over time, heat cycling etc.

Most springs will lose some pressure initally and then stabilize. This is caused by heat setting. Some springs are heat set at the factory which minimizes pressure loss.

If spring harmonics are bad, the spring can overheat due to the level of energy the spring the spring has to absorb. The biggest benefit from going to an aftermarket spring is that some are designed very well and fit both the retainer and spring tightly. Loose fitment is the #1 design aspect that needs to be addressed to minimize wear. On motors with Ti retainers the spring can wear the retainer and on motors with stock retainers the retainer can wear down the spring.

Combustion Contraption · 11-07-2006, 02:53 PM

I used to hate doing to the triple spring 800lb+ domestic stuff.

But then again, im not as buff as Robert.

Master of the Universe · 11-07-2006, 03:08 PM

There's a machine for that.

11-07-2006, 02:43 AM	#2
an2ny888 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Quezon city, SFDM, Philippines Posts: 1,275	Re: Spring Test - BVTEC (Don's Lackey) i'm no expert, so does this mean that itr springs can be used with cams that have 13.1 lift? or are there other variables involved?

11-07-2006, 03:06 AM	#3
Master of the Universe Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 6,493	Re: Spring Test - BVTEC (an2ny888) No. See quick note 1. __________________ Semi-Retired as of April 25, 2007. Don't bother to PM me. I am tired of internet fools. Contact via RM Dealer or e-mail.

11-07-2006, 04:12 AM	#4
salman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: karachi, sindh, pakistan Posts: 1,760	i dont understand it, but ill try to read it in free time __________________ 51. And indeed We bestowed aforetime on Ibrâhim (Abraham) his (portion of) guidance, and We were Well-Acquainted with him (as to his Belief in the Oneness of Allâh, etc.). 52. When he said to his father and his people: "What are these images, to which you are devoted?" 53. They said:"We found our fathers worshipping them." 54. He said: "Indeed you and your fathers have been in manifest error." Sale, All Honda ECu All Dohc Vtec Obd1 and OBD0 Dizzy All MAP sensor and TPS,

11-07-2006, 05:31 AM	#5
clean rice Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: GO PACKERS Posts: 5,492	Re: (salman) Awesome info Rob, thankyou! Modified by clean rice at 3:36 AM 1/8/2008 __________________ <FONT COLOR="red">Rocket Motorsports</FONT> and<FONT COLOR="green"> MFactory dealer</FONT> <FONT COLOR="blue">camshafts - valvetrain - gearing - LSD's etc..</FONT> *-Rest in peace Gramma..-*

11-07-2006, 05:37 AM	#6
mar778c Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Downingtown, PA, USA Posts: 4,324	Re: Spring Test - BVTEC (Don's Lackey) Thank you sir, I will have to act accordingly. __________________ Good people: Synapse Motorsports,JDogg,b18c1_powered _si,CHEETAH, 86si,NA_is_best, Astig, McNews Automotive, geardog, 4g hatch, Innovative Motorworks

11-07-2006, 02:20 AM	#1
Master of the Universe Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 6,493	Spring Test - BVTEC BVTEC Spring Test Cliff Notes for the Spring Chart 1. The 0.00 Lift Column is Closed Pressure aka Seat Pressure, pressure when the valve is closed. 2. Look at the 0.500 lift column to see the Open Pressure. OE B16/GSR springs cannot reach this lift so look at the 0.400 lift column for Open Pressure for these springs. Quick Notes 1. Lift at Coil Bind means the spring is solid at this lift. General rule of thumb for BVTEC is that there should be at least 1.5mm travel over maximum valve lift. This means if you have 12.00mm valve lift then you need at least 13.50mm travel before coil bind. 2. B16 dual spring coil binds at 12.2mm. You cannot safely use this spring with 12mm camshafts without over stressing the spring or binding the spring. 3. Supertech H1002D spring pressure and lift capabilities match all manufacturer specs except for seat pressue. Seat pressure from test is only 60lbs vs. 70lbs as specified by Supertech. It is common to have some variance between spring testers in the lower pressures. 4. ITR springs allow for use of 12mm camshafts but this would be an extreme limit for lift capabilities. The relatively low pressure does not allow for any extended rpm usage without increasing risk of valve float and resulting engine damage from same. 5. B16 Single spring lacks pressure to run any performance camshaft safely. Springs are tested with RM Retainer and OE spring seat. From Left to Right: ITR Yellow, RM SL, RM G2, Supertech H1002D Rimac 500lbs Capacity Spring Tester Verifying Dial Indicator for Travel Measurement using 1.500" Standard ITR Spring Ready to Be Tested Close up of measuring ITR Spring at 1.320" Preessure of ITR Spring at 1.320" Test Notes Modified by Don's Lackey at 6:13 PM 11/8/2006 __________________ Semi-Retired as of April 25, 2007. Don't bother to PM me. I am tired of internet fools. Contact via RM Dealer or e-mail.

11-07-2006, 06:49 AM	#7
B18C1_POWER Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: PR, USA Posts: 252	Re: Spring Test - BVTEC (mar778c) the supertech h1002d are the same ones as kms? btw great test

11-07-2006, 06:58 AM	#8
b19coupe Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Southern, California, U.S.A. Posts: 9,299	Re: Spring Test - BVTEC (Don's Lackey) Nice test Rocket I would love to see the data for other common manufacturers too (Toda, Skunk, Portflow, etc.) __________________ C.A.T.

11-07-2006, 07:12 AM	#9
Natural Aspirations Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Bustin Balls in Central, Pa, usa Posts: 2,362	Thank You, Love to see ANY info out of these guys. __________________ I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.

11-07-2006, 07:37 AM	#11
Furyof4 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: SE, PA, usa Posts: 902	Re: (bluedlude) Great info

11-07-2006, 08:13 AM	#12
GSRCRXsi Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 2,658	Re: Spring Test - BVTEC (Don's Lackey) in response to you 1.5mm rule. if the ITR binds at 13.1mm, then why wold portflow say you can run their springs to 12.7mm lift? (they use ITR outers with their inners) and wouldnt you only need 13.5 capable lift for a 12mm valve lift? and not 14.5? __________________ WTB: clean crx shell http://hondamarketplace.com/zerothread?id=1490544 Please give what you can to the Tom Cote Medical Fund http://honda-tech.com/zerothread/1828476

11-07-2006, 02:53 PM	#22
Combustion Contraption Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,535	I used to hate doing to the triple spring 800lb+ domestic stuff. But then again, im not as buff as Robert. __________________ EARL LASKEY, YOU WILL BE MISSED CCCylinderheads.com Check out the INDUCTION SPECIAL Matco Doublebay Toolbox FOR SALE Click Here!

11-07-2006, 03:08 PM	#23
Master of the Universe Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 6,493	Re: (Combustion Contraption) There's a machine for that. __________________ Semi-Retired as of April 25, 2007. Don't bother to PM me. I am tired of internet fools. Contact via RM Dealer or e-mail.